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Post by mattduncan on Apr 15, 2007 14:00:54 GMT -6
i see in a diffrent thread mountainman mentions time saving anchoring systems what does everybody do to speed up setting your water lines ?
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raya
Tenderfoot...
Its dog eat dog world and here we are in Alpo underware
Posts: 25
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Post by raya on Apr 15, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -6
I keep atleast a 8 ft adjustable drowner cable on all my water traps. no messin with wireunless tyein off to a root or big rock.usually have a Pogo or Earth Ancor on the top side ajustable loop on down hill side.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 15, 2007 16:02:01 GMT -6
Pre set your drowning rigs.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 15, 2007 19:47:59 GMT -6
Knowing exactly what type of anchoring system is needed for each stream
Traps all attached to slide cables, stake traps wires and wrapped around the rebar, double couplers, wire cages for drowners, etc.
Have everything ready per stop- grab 3 of these, 5 of that, etc- bing, bang.
I tend to set up water lots faster than canines.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 16, 2007 6:21:37 GMT -6
I agree with trappnman and beav. I know exactly what Im going to use in all types of water Im working in and have it ready when I get there. The single best resource I know of for anchoring systems is Master Dobbins book "Trap Fastening". Anything that can be done ahead of time add up to a good savings in time. Time that is to me much better spent looking for the best set locations. Have the right tools handy and keep spares in the vehicle unless you are in a boat. Like trappnman I tend to set faster in the water. I often time myself and get a good average on minutes per set. Ill be using his good 110 holders next season. Beav is very knowledgeable and the good info on his site helped me get started with an excellent drowning system with drowning rods. That piece of equipment solves a number of problems for me in hard to set up places, lots of time saved along with many incidental beaver, otter and coon that can break wires or escape from mink and rat sets with less positive drowning setups. I agree with his choice of medium size traps for mink and rats with drowning depth water. They take mink and rats down quick and help keep them from laying in shallow water to likely be eaten by predators. Im going to parachute cord for 110s (credit to Kermit Stearns) and much less wire for everything else.
Heres a little thing I do that is not trap fastening, but does save me time. There is often no good place to set whatever I carry my equipment in when wading. I had to move around too much to find a place to set it down. Pack baskets tend to wait until I get away from them before they fall off the bank. On all my packs and buckets I attach a piece of parachute cord with either a spring snap or steel coat hanger hook so I can hang it from any limb or root handy at the set. That gets the load off my back, everything in easy reach and not out on a sandbar for curious people to sometimes see even with camo colors.
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Post by mustelameister on Apr 16, 2007 7:56:18 GMT -6
Parachute cord for #110s . . . . I like that. Most of my trapping is out of a boat in a river with muddy bottoms. I've got 3 large tubs in the boat, each packed with drowner rigs. Each drowner rig consists of two wooden stakes, ten feet of 3/32" cable, and the trap S-linked to the drowner lock. Two of the tubs have 10-footers, the third tub has miscellaneous. Some five-footers, some 20-footers, and a couple of 30-footers. I know my river and know where I need longer drowners. The two wooden stakes have the cable wrapped around them, and the trap is on top the two stakes. Most the traps are #11s, so it's easy to set the trap sideways on top the stake heads, dog up, and slide the longsprings down on either side of the stakes so it retains itself as a unit. Pipes, pockets, and blind sets, quick and easy. Motor up to the set, do your thing, reach in the tub and grab a unit, lift the trap off the top, hold onto one stake, the other drops while uncoiling the cable, slide the trap up to the bank stake, take your hip boot and press the bank stake in, set your trap and bed it, walk the terminal end out and press that in with your boot. Take about . . . a minute or two? There are those sets that do drop off immediately, and are served up with drowner rods or weights and cables. Cached along the river bank at various locations are piles of steel awaiting next season's work, mostly tie plates and brake drums. Same goes for those spots where I've got bedrock exposed or sandy bottoms which are about useless for wooden stakes. I try to use wire as little as possible. Post-season I take the traps off each unit, dye/wax 'em, tune 'em, and link them back onto each unit, ready to go for next season. Most of the time I have two strings of traps out on two different stretches of river. On opening day I've got 3 tubs with about 75 sets ready, and the next day I've got another 3 tubs with about 75 sets ready. This way I've got about 150 working sets, all drowners, on two-day checks. If something comes up, they become 3-day checks for whatever time. For this part-time trapper who has to start at 4:00 each day after work, it keeps things efficient, organized, and the freezers full. Works for me. I like that parachute cord idea.
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Post by BismuthBoy on Apr 16, 2007 9:42:15 GMT -6
Okay, explain the parachute cords on the 110's? I'm curious...
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Post by mountainman on Apr 16, 2007 14:19:55 GMT -6
Parachute cord replaces wire for tying off 110s. That may work in most or all situations. I havent tried it yet. I will be next season. The obvious advantages to me right now are: 1 It lasts a long time. 2 No wire cuts or crimping ends of wire. Just melt the ends w/a lighter so they dont fray. 3 It can be easily wrapped around the trap and tied. 4 It comes in camo colors. 5 It dont have to be waxed because it dont rust.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 16, 2007 14:52:40 GMT -6
Mustelameister, Thats a good system you have there for working the rivers. Its is a challenge to trap like that after work. I have had to do that myself and it gets dark fast here in the mountains. I have always liked working out of a johnboat and have done some of my best work there sometimes filling several freezers in less than a week with mink and rats in the round. We dont have a season for coon in one area here yet. Im working out of a whitewater kiyak right now. It doesnt carry as much as a larger boat but the tradeoff on that gives me access to a lot of places the competition cant get into with a larger boat or waders. I often use it for a toolbox and pull it behind me on long sections of creeks and canals. When Im done I can quickly and easily paddle back out even through very shallow areas so I work longer knowing I can get out before dark. When I get set up to make my own 3/32 beaver snares I will also make cable drowners again for those same type places that work for you. I have to have something on the steep banks that can be anchored on the bank for a lot of rat sets on one river. I can carry enough short 4-6 ft rods no problem. Where I have a choice I will use cables, rod drowners and probably some chain drowners for beaver and otter with CDRs. One rat set I use is a 110 baited and set on trees and logs in the water for rats. No drowner needed there. Tieoffs and remakes are a snap. Here is an online source for US parachute cord: www.cheaperthandirt.com They have it in rolls up to 1000 ft in OD green and black.
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Post by mattduncan on Apr 16, 2007 15:58:57 GMT -6
i'm thinking about going to pretty much all drowning rods i've tried wire and cable and used ids and pogos on the bottom but my bottoms just aren't conducive to these methods steves idea of using the chicken wire works but many of my locations lack te required stones to put in them . how does everybody set up there rods do you double stake at the top and leave the bottom loose or shove the top in the bank and stake the bottom or other methods
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Post by NittanyLion on Apr 16, 2007 17:04:05 GMT -6
Many of my streams have almost solid rock for stream bottoms. I pre-wire my traps to bricks. I make most of my sets fairly close to the road so I don't have to lug bricks all over the place. It does save a lot of time when setting out the line but it is a lot of work. I start to wire the traps to the bricks a couple of weeks ahead of time and I load the truck the night before. At locations where I have to walk a long distance I use grapples.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 16, 2007 17:14:26 GMT -6
I did use all my cooyte grapples in water this year o nsimilar rock bottom streams, in hopes I'd get a coon or two. Never did with them, but mink and rats never hardly moved the chain, let alone the hooks.
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Apr 16, 2007 20:33:33 GMT -6
Steve or others. Have you heard of anyone using grapples who have caught coon and found that the grapples did not work so good. I walk quite a distance to set my mink and coon along with rat traps. would like to try grapples but not at the expense of losing my traps to coon. In the past usually just tied off with wire to deep water. I find some of the ideas here interestimg
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Post by mustelameister on Apr 16, 2007 21:21:29 GMT -6
With respect to drowner rods, here's what I use. These were developed over a two-year period with the help of a friend of mine, Nathan, and work real well, under certain conditions.
10-foot lengths of rerod, 3/8" in diameter. A nut, large enough for a 3/8" stake to go through, is welded onto the side of the rod about 18" from the bank end. Another nut is welded onto the terminal end, with the rod inside the nut.
The drowner lock is a bent washer, large enough to easily slide down the rod. The trap chain is S-linked to a hole in the bend of the washer, with the bend pointing at the terminal end.
The stakes are of varying length, depending on consistency of substrate. In some places, I have 4-foot stakes. Especially when setting in sand. These are usually places where it drops off right away. Most of my 3/8" stakes are 18" long.
I use these two ways:
1) In deep water, where the bank drops right off, I simply spear the rod into the bank for 18" at water level, and run a 3/8" stake through that side nut. The terminal end of the rod simply dangles out in the water. The 'coon, 'rat or mink will slide the trap out and drown. A 'coon usually makes it to the end of the rod, but with the combined weight of the trap, critter and rod itself usually causes the rod to dip deep enough to drown the critter.
2) In shallow mucky water, but deep enough to drown a 'coon, I spear the terminal end of the rod into the bottom, then bend the bank end of the rod towards the bank, skewer the bank with it, and run it back into the bank. Then set the 3/8" stake through the side nut. The rod should be sunk deep enough into the bottom to allow you to slide it back when skewering the bank with the bank end.
Problems: When I first experimented with these, I had a couple of problems until I got the hang of them. Here are a couple:
1) Didn't look carefully enough in the muddy water for an obstruction, like a log or something, when thinking it was "real deep". That 3/8" rod got bent into a big ol' pretzel a couple of times by big 'coon. Funny as everything running up the river and there sets a big 'coon waving at me . . . with a #11 firmly clamped onto a front foot. The rod bent into a big curley-Q around him. Lesson: Check to be sure nothing allows the 'coon to gain firm ground back to the bank.
2) If the rod rests right on firm bottom for the first foot or so, dig a groove underneath it to allow the bent washer to slide freely down the rod. I saw where I had 'rats, mink and small 'coon that couldn't pull that washer through the clay or hard mud on the bank.
If trapping out of a boat, like I do, the weight issue isn't much of a big deal. Preseason I'll stash these in groups of 20 along the bank. At each stop I'll load 10 on each side of my 14' V-bow, along with the tubs of traps in the boat.
The drowner rods are all painted with latex paint. I have a section of eaves trough capped on both ends. Fill that with a diluted solution of good metal latex, green and brown, and dip each rod. When finished I pour the contents into a blue water jug, label, and store in the basement until next summer.
I wouldn't want to hassle with these rods unless I had the boat. The boat makes all the difference. And this works for me, along with the drowner cables mentioned above.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 16, 2007 22:02:43 GMT -6
mattduncan, the drowner rods I have right now are 3/8 round rod with a stake ring at the top, a washer about 8 in from the bottom and an L lock. The lower end is shoved into the bottom and the bank end is staked with a T-top stake. I will be using 4-6 ft rods for mink n rats and 8 ft rods for beaver and otter. I carry everything I can in a kiyak except when I work out of a pack and waders w/o a boat. On long stretches of creek in farm country I pull the kiyak behind me with a rope. It carrys everything and I have a ride back when Im done.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 16, 2007 22:32:47 GMT -6
Weld on another washer about 12" from the top this will let you double stake at the top so you don't have to stake at the deep end. I have had large coon bend the rod and get back to the bank but It's very easy to to re bend the rod to straiten It out.
But It's very Important to make sure your stake or stakes that are at the bank be completely under water and tight to the bottom. If not the animal may get hung up before It gets down the rod. It's also very Important that your chain Is pulled as far down the rod as It will go with out moving the trap. These rods also work really good In culverts. Just stake the outside end at the culvert and your good to go.
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Post by mountainman on Apr 17, 2007 5:51:48 GMT -6
Beav, that sounds like a good idea to me. I can sure use the good advice myself before I get more of these things ready to go. Incidental beaver and otter as well as coons are a major consideration for me. I figure that shorter rods where I can use them will not bend as easy, especially in the larger diameter rod. Double staking for the stronger animals would be a lot easier and faster than staking the deep end or rigging weights on hard bottoms. Im already using lighter 3/8 T-tops and dont mind carrying some extra stakes. I like the adjustable chain setup you are using and will rig em like that so I can be more flexible on trap placement, drowning depth and start the lock better. Im using a lot of snaps and quick links in the water for fast reliable hook ups.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 17, 2007 7:02:28 GMT -6
what are the drowning percentages with these rods? close to 100%?
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Post by mountainman on Apr 17, 2007 7:27:25 GMT -6
I have always wanted some grapples for the predator lines, especially cats. The regs were so messed up here for getting close to 30 years thanks to the hound hunters that I had to avoid a lot of things. I will be using some yote or wolf grapples on the cat lines now and will try them in shallow creeks for coons. Ill just lay a rock on the drag, hook it in a root or just toss it into the water where there is plenty of brush around to hang on. I hope they dont climb trees too much and figure the drag will hang quick and stop them from going up very far. I had to shoot one coon and another empty trap out of trees by hitting the wires with a .22 where a couple of them pulled light wooden stakes in rat sets with #1 traps around a big lake when I was a young guy. Putting dirty predator traps in the water does help clean them up. Where it is legal to keep them now Ill let the coons do some of the work and pay for some of the trouble and agravation they have given me. I have a number of smaller headwater creeks on state land I havent worked in a long time where there are coon, mink and rats along with the larger predators. It will be good to have those rigs for fast sets there with no wire to break. A quick link would make it easy to hook to staples or around roots and small trees where the catch needs to be tied down better in open areas or to slow trap thieves down some.
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Post by thebeav2 on Apr 17, 2007 7:27:50 GMT -6
I don't use a lot of these rods on the beaver and otter line but do use them on the rat mink and coon line. If the coon can't get back to the bank and you have set In deep water the coon will wear out and drown. I like the double staking system better then just pushing the deep end Into the bottom. There are times when the coon will pull the bottom end and end up on the bank. The coon Is still there but very much alive. Now if your trapping mink and rats and you aren't going to catch a coon then I just toss the rod into the water. I like 5/16ths cold roll rod since the drowning lock runs so much better on smooth rod and this Is very important on animals like mink and rats. Now for coon and beaver the re bar works well. These rods also work great In the rat marsh. Place the rod In the vertical position near the rat house, rat gets caught and down It goes.
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