time saving anchoring systems

[shagnasty]

if deep fast water, i wire a window weight or brick to my beaver leg traps, just use a disposable stake a few feet off the bank, the beaver will swim out and get dragged down. i have considered taking small pieces of heavy duty wire mesh and wire a few rocks inside, this will save me weight in my canoe because i usually am loaded down. i am not much on dropping stuff before season because plans change so much and our water levels go up and down so much, alot of stuff would be buried from sediments by trapping season.

[mustelameister]

Steve, I'm getting 99% drowning success rate with these 3/8" rerod drowners. However, as stated above, you gotta make sure the 'coon can't "walk" the rod back to the bank.

I've had two situations where otter got into the set and bent it up like a pretzel regardless of reaching bottom or the bank. One was waiting for me at the set up on the bank, the other had pulled the whole shooting match out of the bank, stake and all, and had pulled it straight out and then drowned after getting hung up on the bottom. Used a long hook to retrieve that cluster.

The reason I went to rerod was because it was cheap. Menard's had a sale on 10' lengths of rerod one year, and I bought 100 sticks. Think maybe they were a buck and a half apiece or less. That was maybe six-seven years ago. Nathan, younger fella that loves to invent stuff more than actually trap, got fairly excited about the success I was having with the final design.

So he made up fifty or so and took them to the fall WTA convention was thinking he'd get rich tailgating them. Didn't sell a one. Lots of folks looked at 'em . . but that was about it. So I bought those from him.

I wouldn't use the 3/8" rerod on beaver. Period.

I see Gary double stakes at the bank end. That works. With this setup you can stick the first 18" of the rod into the bank, stake it through the side nut, and with the rest of the rod hanging out there in deep water, it will not swing. But if a big 'coon gains a foothold, he will walk that rod back.

Smooth rod is definitely stronger, but the price was right with the rerod.

[mountainman]

Trappnman, that pretty much what I will expect where the water is deep enough or its cold enough to put the coons to sleep quick. Up until now I have only used regular drowners or slide pole wire drowners. On the wooden slide poles I used before the beavers moved in I had a high rate of drowning on mink, rats and coon. In warm weather I drowned around 100% mink and rats and around 60-80% of the coons including sets where there wasnt enough depth to keep their nose underwater especially with hind foot catches. In cold weather it runs close to 100% drowning for me. I really look forward to testing and using these rod drowners. I have been out in the yard seeing how good they will fit in the kiyak. I know Im gonna like these things. I have been thinking about it and like Beavs idea with the double stake on some sets. I may just use short double stake cables for the second stake. John Epler has some and I can make them out of damaged snares anyway. What is the drowning percentage for you guys that have used the drowner rods?

[trappnman]

cold weather matters naught here on killing coon-

must be the dense underbellies, but have never had a dead coon in a trap, held in water during Nov- Feb.

many of my drowning spots are about 3 feet deep- I too wondered about rear foot catches. Doesn't the rods have some bouyancy to them, so to speak? In other words, they don't go down to a zero point, so they?

I can see them working very well in deep water, not so well on shallow water. But might try a couple in 24 hour check spots to see the kill rate.

[mustelameister]

In shallow water (3' deep) I'm targeting front feet with the #11 set tight in a pocket. I make sure that terminal end is stuck a good three feet into the muck, before bending it over and sticking it back into the bank. 18" into the bank still leaves 18" stuck into the bottom, and a 'coon shouldn't be able to walk that back to the bank. If the rod was merely setting on the bottom, it probably could.

[trappnman]

ok, ok I get it - I wasn't thinking of sticking into bottom- I was thinking bottom end was free "floating"

MM- I only shake my head at those #11. you are better trapper than me, if yo ucan target Front feet that consistently on coon.

I can't. I honestly feel I miss a lot of coon in a #11 sized trap.

Some sets I use, indeed the majority of them in water are pipe sets and high pockets (pockets 8-12 inches out of water on sheer banks), and they tend to increase back feet catches..

and in trail sets, which were what all my otter sets were, the number of snapped traps by coon (lot caught to be sure, but) wsa adaily occurance.

we have to make sure we get some time to chat at WI this year- I'd like ot talk coon with oyu, I find your methods to be very similar to mine- sansd the #11, of ocurse...LOL

[shagnasty]

i know a couple of coon trappers here in va that have been around for a long time and put up large numbers and all they use is #11 and #1 longspring traps. coon will not get out of these traps.

[mountainman]

I used #1s very heavily on the mink lines for a while. In some conditions its easy to get a front foot catch on coon like for instance the slide rock set. For general water trapping I use less #1s now. Im going back to mostly med-large coils & longsprings again. I like to hold a lot of the incidental otters and beaver. Where its legal to keep the coons I wont miss very many.

[mustelameister]

Don't wish to take this thread to another topic, but #11s are my trap of choice in situations where I'm almost guaranteed a front foot catch.

This river I trap on is used by a few other trappers, several duck hunters who float down and jump shoot ducks out of their canoes, and a couple of fishermen. Then there are also bowhunters who like to sit up in the trees overlooking the river watching crossings and trails parallel to the river. So I want my catch out of sight and drowned for the multiple day check.

The #11 can be taken down the cable or rod by muskrat, mink and 'coon. I've also found feral cats, 'possum, and small to medium-sized beaver at the terminal end. About the only thing that hangs up are Norway rats, which are normally dead anyway.

It's a small trap, and pad grips the 'coon. My opinion is that a pad-gripped 'coon fights the trap less than a 'coon that has the jaws clamped on somewhere up on the leg. Allow that 'coon to focus on escaping and he'll find his way down the cable/rod faster than one who is focused on the thing that is causing him pain on his leg.

The muskrat or mink that has a #1 3/4, #2 or what have you clamped onto it in shallow water probably won't get down the cable or rod. Probably die right there, but it's exposed, to predators and humans.

I like my critters down and out of sight. I do use #1 3/4 coilspring traps bumped up with #2 coilsprings in deeper water targeting front or hind feet on 'coon. I also use #3 longsprings for 'coon in sandy bottoms, using papertowel under the trap, and under the jaws but over the pan to keep sand from shifting under it. But these are set deep enough that 'rats don't get into 'em.

#11 of choice is the #11 DJ Newhouse. Too bad the Newhouse and Sleepy Creek can't hybridize and produce a superior trap. It's the strength of the Newhouse springs that have caused me to go exclusively with this trap.

Pocket set: Small pocket, maybe 4" in diameter. I use one of Trapper Art's older pocket shovels. His new ones are shorter in the blade. It makes a beautiful 4" pocket by ramming it in the bank and just above water level, rotating 360 degrees, then removing a tube of bank material. I've got ideal soft, yet firm banks, few roots, few stones.

Skewer bait in the back suspended off the bottom, then bed the #11 DJ square in the center of the entrance with the dog pointed towards the hole, and longsprings locked back into either side of the entrance. I actually push them a little into the sides of the entrance. This firmly beds the trap and a 'coon rarely flips the trap out of its bed. If you looked down from above along the bank, the pan would be under the lip or just outside.

A pencil-diameter stick is then thrust into the bottom so it's just outside the center of the loose jaw, which faces the river. You have to have this obstruction to cause the 'coon to step over this or around this and plant his front foot in the trap. I like it protruding just a couple of inches above the surface. You could draw a line from this stick through the dog and it would be perpendicular to the bank.

Then smear bank above and around with good fish/crawfish goo. A 'coon at the bottom of the drink isn't telling his buddies there's something wrong with this set. Since I run the same line for 3 weeks straight, a good location becomes a "sink" for the 'coon, that continue to work this same locations for that month of November.

Pipe set: Got real excited about it on this forum. How to guarantee front foot on the pipe? Run the pipe in the bank about six inches above the waterline. But . . . run it in at an angle so the pipe's mouth is only a couple of inches above the surface. Same thing: #11 is centered just in front of the pipe's mouth, with pencil-diameter stick on outside jaw across from pipe's mouth.

'Coon spies the pipe, and in order to reach up into it or look up into it, the 'coon has to . . . step in front of it to reach or look. Step directly in front of it to balance its weight . Over the stick or around the stick, but that's where that foot is going.

This is what works for me at this time.

[mountainman]

I have different conditions here than a lot of the country. One thing is no coon season in the far western end of NC. A coon catch in this area is -$0 for me and a chance to get bit by a rabid coon. Add to that the higher numbers of beavers and otters hitting the banks just about everywhere on good water and I need to lean to where the money is on my trap choices. I see very little foot or leg damage on drowners. These smooth drowner rods Im looking at have locks that drop super fast and lock good every time. Ill likely use at least 150-200 and will be setting up in the shop to help make them along with some other stuff.

[thebeav2]

If I was just starting out and gearing up for coon and planned on running all drowning sets I would run nothing but #3 coils. Good high catch they are very stable when bedded and you have a large kill area. You would eliminate most If not all your rats and mink, Remember we are trapping coon. How many of you beaver trappers have caught 100s of coon In those large foot holds you have set for spring beaver. I can't ever remember losing any since they were all down the cable.
I don't own a #11 and never will I want a trap I can use for multiple species. And 11s don't cut It on dry land and In my opinion make a very poor rat or mink trap. I don't want to be all day guiding I want to jam that trap In front of my attractor and be down the creek making more sets. And lets be honest I could care less If a coon chews on It's foot, It's what coon do and they even do it In 11s. It really makes little difference the coon Is down and drowned.

Big Is better.

[mustelameister]

God has spoken. I knew it was coming.

Let's move on with more time saving anchoring systems . . .

[thebeav2]

The #11 god has also spoken.
Use some large traps and use some 11s and make your own decision.

[trappnman]

shag- your coon are babies- apples to oranges

its not a matter of HOLDING coon, I've caught 100s and 100s of coon in #1s- its the matter of the span of a coons foot is wider than a 1 and you get SNAPPED traps.

[trappnman]

sorry- will never agree that it saves damage on MN coon- been there, done that and don't believe it for a second anymore. There was NO difference in chewing in #11 than any other coon trap.

NONE (24 hour check, staked EXACTLY like our wonderful coon protocal )

as far as targeting front feet at pipes- think about it a little. HOW does a coon work a pipe?

Been using pipes for a lot of years- angled, horizonal, deep water and shallow-

I catch more by back foot then front.

I guess I must be semi deity then- I agree with beav 100% on #11.

I used to use ALL #1 and #11 on coon- was all I had in the early days (besides 1.5 ls). I switched to 1.5 coils and 1.75 (in water) for a reason- I don't like snapped traps.

and the #11 is a terrible land trap- I got in the habit of never covering the trap for otter- only way to keep it from plugging, and that was on sand.

if you like the #11- then use a #2 dls.

[mountainman]

It is tough to pick one tool for all situations even for the same target species, even if all was equal on just the coons there is still a huge difference in terrain and trapline management with different systems. Some guys can work with one trap and fine tune their placement and anchoring to do well. That is good and shows a lot of skill. Its also good to try to cover the whole story on these things.

I have thought on this for a good while and with the conditions I see on the lines as well as what advice I have gotten. I believe I would do well to use traps from #2 longsprings to #3 coils or even #4s depending on what catches are likely at the locations and fasten accordingly. I have otters working mink sets now, beaver and rats hitting slides and so on. With coon in mind working in different areas including swamps and marshes I can pretty much hold what I catch including nontargets or rather extra valuable catches that are figured into the set locations and anchoring systems. I have been testing a number of larger traps in the new conditions present now and had already come to these conclusions a good while back. Some locations are really just taken over by larger animals. Even if common sence didnt tell me what to do I have the written knowledge and memories of the works of quite a few master trappers to fall back on. This site is another excellent example of that.

What anchoring systems does anybody want to discuss? Chains and attaching hardware are one suggestion I can throw out there. Im sure there are a lot of good drowner designs out there that havent been covered.

[mustelameister]

"semi-deity" . . . and I was going to leave this alone . . .

1. " . . no difference in chewing in #11 than another other 'coon trap." Agreed.

2. "Been using pipes . . . I catch more by back foot than front." I'm sure you do. The way I set the pipe in, tilted down to the water's surface, it's almost impossible for a 'coon to get his hind foot in the trap when there's but a couple of inches between the pipe's mouth and the water's surface. High pipe, big trap, makes sense, and I do it, and most of the time I get a hind foot catch.

3. "And the #11 is a terrible land trap." Agreed.

4. " . . . it's the matter of a 'coon's foot is wider than a #1 . . . " Hind foot, yes. Front foot, no. Thirty-five pounder or 15-pounder, the front foot of a 'coon will not span a #11. With minimal guiding, that front foot will land on that pan most of the time.

5. " . . . have caught 100s of 'coon in those large foot holds you have set for spring beaver . . . " Good point. However, if you're catching 100s of 'coon trying to catch beaver, in my opinion, which is a very humble one at that . . . I'd say you need to refine your hind foot trapping technique so you can submerge that foothold a wee bit more to avoid nontargets.

6. "I could care less if a 'coon chews on its foot . . . " I do care. Period.


Trapping is unique in that each of us who deem ourselves "successful" in trapping the target species believe we have the best system. What I find interesting is that one's best system might not work in the next county over, or might not even work the best for another trapper working the same river!

The #11 God . . . dang, I like that!

[trappnman]

Trapping is unique in that each of us who deem ourselves "successful" in trapping the target species believe we have the best system. What I find interesting is that one's best system might not work in the next county over, or might not even work the best for another trapper working the same river!


AGREED!

I routinely make pipes horizontal to the waters surface- an inch or two above.

Now I've always believed, and more so after talking to Gary Bonnet and his videos of a coon working a pipe- that a coon works a pipe ON his hind legs, grasping at the pipe with his front feet.

Its seems like you disgree- or at least your results disagree.

fair assesssment?

[mustelameister]

Fair assessment, when that pipe's mouth is but a couple of inches off the surface of the water.

I've come into possession of a high quality digital video camera, that has some night-time recording capabilities. It's the Sony Digital 8. I've tinkered with it at night recording beaver working on a dam break, and have had good results.

Think I'll set this up when life slows down a bit in June, and see for myself just how 'coon do react to pipes when they're set at different angles, heights, etc.

Steve, I'll send you a copy of it when finished.

Who knows? I'd sure like to know "for sure" how most 'coon do react to pipes.

I do know this: While floating downstream some nights I've seen 'possum crawl out on my pipes when there's a low bank, even when the pipe is but a couple of inches above the water's surface in shallow water.

Most of these pipes are inch and a half in diameter. There the 'possum was, stretched out on the pipe, hind feet on the bank, and his belly draped on either side of the pipe. One "hand" grasped around the pipe for stability, the other reaching in and fishing out the goodies.

After seeing that, on short banks I started taking two solid sticks and making an X with them halfway along the pipe to keep those stinkers from cleaning me out.

[trappnman]

gary reports coon do the same thing-

I'd be very interested in the video