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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 26, 2006 7:25:02 GMT -6
I've been reading where the old saw about too much lure spooking coyotes has risen again. Their consencous was that yes indeed, "too much lure"- I guess thats 5 drops vs 15 drops- causes more spooking and standbacks from coyotes than anything esle.
I flat out am totally convinced 180 degrees from that.
I think that 15 drops or 20 drops or indeed half the bottle, will not spook coyotes.
Larger quantities of lure smell the same for all practical purposes as small quantities.
Compare it to frying 1 hamburger or 6- it still smels like hamburger!l
I see where coyotes frequently feed off of old dump pile-s on animals that occasionally turn my stomach- and you think 5 more drops of lure will spook him?
Now- if the question is do you NEED large quantities of lure, my thoguht would be no- you do not.
Luring amply does have advantages on maintance-
I am convinced that coyotes standing back...letting the set air out in old school thinking- is a product of bad visuals, not bad smells.
Comments?
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Post by Jeffrey on Sept 26, 2006 8:21:48 GMT -6
What's a bad visual? I've found that if you stand on you're right foot, hop in a circle then apply the lure while still on the right foot you can catch coyotes.lol I'm starting to think it has nothing to do with us really, it has more to do with the individual yote and the experiences he's had. Also his general mood at the time when he encounters a set.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 26, 2006 8:57:17 GMT -6
now that WAS a bad visual...LOL
Bad visuals at the set. Either trying to force in a set where it shouldn't be, or leaving that set "obvious" to a coyote. Improper blending, too much use of guides, hard lines, etc.
I believe a coyote is very observant in his own territory, and anything that looks out of place- is viewed with caution.
Heres a question- do you believe that most coyotes are caught at their first approach...or later?
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Post by ColdSteel on Sept 26, 2006 10:58:26 GMT -6
I have a lot milder climate than you boys do but yes I know I can use to much lure which cause rolling and rubbing at the dirthole which is not good.I can't say much about yotes haven't had many dealings with them but those little greys will rub and roll in a set in a heartbeat.I have even got away from a lot of skunky lures because of this.My best grey fox lure last year was bobcat gland lure which I plan on using more of this year .Hey speaking of cat gland lure doesn't Stef make some?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 26, 2006 16:04:51 GMT -6
I believe a coyote is very observant in his own territory, and anything that looks out of place- is viewed with caution.
Heres a question- do you believe that most coyotes are caught at their first approach...or later?
Depends on time of year and age of the coyote.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 26, 2006 17:07:05 GMT -6
I think some coyotes respond to a lot and some don't and vice versa.
I've never been one to spare the candy unless I'm making a gang set with the strategy of catching more than one a the location.
I make one gaudy one that stinks to high hell.
Then I make flat sets around the area with coyote water, or urine, or a turd, or nothing at all in the right circumstance.
Joel
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Post by lynxcat on Sept 26, 2006 17:12:21 GMT -6
I dunno...us 'catchahoochie for example...a q tip as opposed to a large pour.....NAAA...I'm NOT convinced...the q tip is adequate ...the pour'd scare more away then it'd catch..IMHO..other NOT so strong lures different issue...be like a drop of PURE skunk as opposed to an oz...YIKES..couriosity VS MIND NUMBING.. lynx
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Post by Stef on Sept 26, 2006 17:17:16 GMT -6
No I don't
Speaking of greys, a species we don't have around here but from some reports I had from southern trappers... Some trappers had a lot of luck using my XXXL a Beaver lure and my Pikauba a cat lure for grey fox.
Back on the thread... I've seen a couple times some rolling while trapping, on traps but its rare. I've seen that with mild lures and with super skunky loud lures etc... I think that gland lures can create that behavior more often than let say loud call lure even if its a mild gland lure. I think the presentation of the lure(s) is one thing and the lure(s) or bait is another thing when talking canines rolling on lures.
Stef
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Post by thebeav2 on Sept 26, 2006 17:22:36 GMT -6
So Joel when you use that coyote water do you keep It in one spot or do you sprinkle it around the set area?
Canines live by their nose so I feel It doesn't take all that much lure to get It's attention.
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Post by ColdSteel on Sept 26, 2006 18:25:15 GMT -6
I take a small stick dip it in the bottle and wipe the side of the hole and just drop the stick in the bottom and give the backing a good shot of urine.I just don't think I need anymore than that.Heck,I have come back to some of my old sets before and see a hole dug big as a basketball 2 to 3 weeks later after some heavy rain.A 4 oz bottle of lure will make a many of sets for me
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Post by Bob Jameson on Sept 26, 2006 18:30:26 GMT -6
Lots of variables when discussing lure usage. When in doubt I still use normal dosages. If I am in an area I feel it may benefit me to use a boosted amount of lure or a more aggressive smelling lure I will do so.
But on the average if you are on the game alot or more lure is not necessary at all. I have used all the combos imaginable over the years.It simply all boils down to the interest they have at that time and how good the opportunity looks and smells to them.
I have found that lure use is such a loaded topic. Exercising good judgement and moderation in lure application is the best advice I can give anyone.
The ole thought that more is better does not always apply in a positive manner when luring a set for a canine. Experience is ones best teacher and most will go on a rolly coaster ride over the years to learn this valuable lesson.
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Post by briankroberts on Sept 26, 2006 20:42:01 GMT -6
I haven't seen that myself, from most of the better lures out there.
I know a good rotten meat will make them drop a shoulder right now, as will a few other things.
But all in all I don't think using to much hurts a thing 99.9% of the time. With that being said if your on location you really don't need much, but I don't buy into the drop or dollap makes a differance.....B.....
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Post by ColdSteel on Sept 27, 2006 0:04:16 GMT -6
I have had rubbing and rolling at my sets I have seen it in the snow as well as sand washes.That was the main reason I backed off lure usage.Grey fox are 95% of my catch maybe they have a tendancy to roll or rub more I don't know.I had a man tell me the other day that he only got 7 maybe 8 sets out of a 1oz bottle of lure.I am sure a certain lure maker likes this guy ;D.My reply was dang what cost you more the lure usage or gas?Like Brian said no substitute for location.Got to tell you boys a good one here.Two years ago this 15 year old boy come into my fur buyers place to sell some fur.This boy owned 18 victor 11/2 coilsprings and run his line on a bicycle.His father brought him over there and he had 72 grey fox froze in the round.We unloaded the truck went inside and got to talking you could tell this young boy loved it and was full of fire.The boys father didn't even trap .My fur buyer said son that a nice catch there and after talking awhile he asked the boy whats your favorite lure?The boy replied I don't use any so my fur buyer offered him a 1 oz bottle of canine call.The boy took a whiff and said sir that stuff stinks .I think I will just stick with my bologna and red fox urine I can get that at Walmart.Needless to say when the young boy left we both were scratching our heads
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Post by trappnman on Sept 27, 2006 7:26:41 GMT -6
I don't trap many grays, but on coyotes and reds, I'm like Brian.
I trap enough with a little snow each year, to say I've never seen rolling at a set.
dug out blown out holes- you bet...but not rolling.
Do some do it earlier?.....most likely, but not enough to notice or to change my lure use.
I believe its the ODOR that induces rolling- not te quanity.
Take oyur dog for example- when he rolls- its not a pile of stuff...its usually on a barespot that you don't know what he could be rolling on...on till you smell him...LOL
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Post by Stef on Sept 27, 2006 7:50:46 GMT -6
My dog roll on dry cookie and toys so... Doesn't smell too strong. ;D
And, outside... there's always a few stinky rodents dead around in the backyard the cats killed and my dog find most of them and she never roll.
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Post by lumberjack on Sept 27, 2006 8:09:21 GMT -6
Coldsteel I checked my local Walmart out and they are not stocking red fox urine yet-bologna, yes. When can I expect it? That boy must have been in one hell of a pocket of greys. BTW I use just a little lure, I expect the location and eye appeal to draw him close enough for the lure to work.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 27, 2006 8:52:07 GMT -6
To answer the question about coyote water I used it on subtle sets out in the open away from a big attraction.
The set that really comes to mind is using dried out stock dams and transplanting a grass clump or other small backing within sight of a big cow skull or other attractor with a loud scent.
I'd sprinkle a little of the water on one grass clump, a little urine on another, maybe a turd on the next one and leave one or two as simple sight attractors.
As for rolling I don't like skunky or other loud stuff on the ground, I prefer to have it up where they can't roll.
Joel
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Sept 27, 2006 9:18:56 GMT -6
I use both mentalities of lure application. Mostly leaning towards the large amount. I guess you could call it that. I use a butterknife to apply my lure. I put most of it back down the hole and wipe the knife at base of backing to get the smell out on the wind. When putting in flat sets , I tend to use just a drop or 2 BUT they are in proximity of a regularly lured dirthole. I usually do the loud set , mild set and occasionally the flat set. The flat sets usually go in after a few days to pick up any shy ones. It tends to work for me. I have fiddled with the call lure up high and see pros and cons to it. Mostly pros if placed high enough. then you can get away with the couple of drops at set. But with the winds shifting so much , I would be dipped if I rely on just a few drops at every set. I have seen on snow where a canine walked just a few feet away from subtly lured set and even a normally lured set , without breaking stride. Wrong wind and it happens , that is why i also tend to "freshen" sets up with eye appeal every so often. I always leave a weatherd blended set alone , but the main ones are freshened regularly. Well , enough for me on that thread , i am getting longwinded here.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Sept 27, 2006 10:17:56 GMT -6
good points Freak-
thats why it is so hard and so unreliable- to try to take one part of someones methods and express wonderment that they work- without looking at the WHOLE.
a method is made up of many components- all working together to form the final product of the set.
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Post by k9 on Sept 28, 2006 7:41:08 GMT -6
As you probably have already read in other posts of mine Steve, I think it is a combination of visuals and lure or bait, especially on early season coyotes that I prefer. I feel that there are a certain number of walkby, standbacks, etc that are just the coyotes mood or mindset, and nothing else, and we have no control over it at times.
I have asked the question before, is a travelling coyote always a hunting coyote? Better question would be what flips his switch from travelling mode to investigative mode. I think the coyote always is looking for opportunities no matter what he is doing. However I think he gets going from point A to point B and that becomes his priority, so how do we make our set become his priority.
I think we do that by a combination of visuals and smell, put in his travelway. Not just visuals, not just smells, but both. I can see a good looking girl and she is attractive, but of she also smells good, she can be irresistable.
The only point I am pondering, is that if she has too much perfume, I tend to be repelled (lucky for her). I do not think that carries over to coyotes though, as far as too much lure is concerned, because Slim's logic makes sense to me. If a coyote will approach a huge rotting carcass, why would a little extra lure make a difference?
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