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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 3, 2006 13:00:41 GMT -6
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 3, 2006 13:19:51 GMT -6
Thought I would share this deal, Friday May26th these ewe/lambs where dumped into a pasture for summer range, Sunday the rancher checked sheep and found a dead lamb, he called I was out on Tuesday. I tried to locate got no response,did 2 miles south figuring maybe these where the coyote killing as last year the 2 coyotes and a den where found by the airplane in this area, I took the den and they got the 2 coyotes in some rough area. I found another dead lamb on Tuesday and set traps and a few snares where I found coyote tracks coming from the south, had no luck with calling those coyotes 2 miles south and no other responses in the area. No luck with poor fencing either I had the plane fly Friday morning June 2nd and within 10 mins they found these 2 heading East 1/4 mile from the sheep. I also found the sheep found away under the fence dumping 20 some head into the South pasture where I had traps, I of course had a ewe in 1 trap and the other untouched. I had them mark the location of these coyotes and I inspected them, the male was big and old as you can see by the bottom teeth and the female was a younger coyote and not bred no scars or signs of being so either. I cut open the male first and he had 3 mice fresh and a belly full of fresh lamb not broken down I'm sure from that morning, the female had nothing inside just broken down grass but other wise an empty belly. I surmised we either broke up the party before she could feed or she was their for moral support. I'm thinking the male was used to hearing the dinner bell and might have been associated with the coyotes taken last summer, thinking we had the pair might have been the bred female and a baby sitter female, no reason to keep killing for him and the problem was better, but he had a female and needed to continue doing what he had a natural feel for killing lambs.
The reason no response from these 2? No pups or territory to defend hard and thus no response from these coyotes with howling? Also no reason to engage my dog as no family structure to defend.I found the tracks of these 2 next to a small watering source just 50 yards on the other side of the fence from where the sheep are. I also think they where surprised at finding the sheep closer on this trip as the ones who got under the fence where out east and my traps sat as they ran into the free meal without having to cross the fence and work the area I had traps and a snare in the fence. FWIW
I'll keep equipment in this area most of the summer and will use the siren as well to see what else may be out there. This rancher has problems each year and the hard part is he looks at them maybe 2 times a week. A great area for coyotes and the numbers of lambs are a magnet for coyotes, just have to see if another with the instinct for mutton makes a move.
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Jun 3, 2006 14:00:35 GMT -6
Were the two coyotes mangy?
Jeff
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 3, 2006 15:00:39 GMT -6
I`ll bet a dollar to a donut you havn`t heard the last of it and there is a den and pups and another older female left. possible they were it, but i bet the non bred was a babysitter and ma is at home , where ever that is. keep us updated how it unfolds.
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Post by Wiley on Jun 4, 2006 7:54:47 GMT -6
37,
I have to agree with Bob on this. I would do some snooping around to the East where this pair was heading and see if you can get any pups to talk. The pups should start talking before too long. At least you have a direction to work with (east). The bred female might have stayed back at the den and let the male pack food because the pups, if there is pups, are probably only 4 weeks old.
At the same time, the bred female might have been killed after she was bred or, as you have suggested, perhaps he's hitched to this "frigid bitch".
I would see how much coyote traffic you can find coming and going from the East to determine if there is a den. Usually, a non den related coyote would take a feed and lay up in the pasture adjoining the sheep. As you already know, they would have no reason to travel on a full stomach and no set direction.
I'm curious, how old do you think that male coyote is based on his teeth?
I'll tell you what I think after I get your answer. That picture isn't as clear as I'd like but there is some tell tale signs (whiteness, canine length, canine sharpness, center teeth not flat, and no teeth missing).
"old" is relative.
~SH~
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 4, 2006 8:02:44 GMT -6
you "old" sob. the pups are yakking here back east already and they were way ahead of schedule in wyoming this year. big rabbit populations made for bigger litters, faster growing pups, heavy milkers etc. seemed they whelped earlier even.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 4, 2006 8:13:48 GMT -6
Wiley my guess as to the wear on the bottom teeth would be 3-4 years old? You can see the middle of those bottom teeth. They are worn alot compaired to the top or canines. What do you think age wise?
I have had zero response from pups and you may be right I'm certainly not leaving the "area" for awhile. I will explore more out on the East side and I have 5 traps out on the East end a few in a draw where these coyotes where cruising and 2 on the high knoll and 1 by a water hole out east. I will be back their Monday or Tuesday early morn and will try to howl again see if anything talks back. Tracking is difficult as this pasture has decent grass and few bare spots and very little rain as of late. The tracks I found close to the sheep where 2 sets I'm sure from the 2 taken.I'll run the far East fence really well looking for a crawl under too. Their is a small draw with a nice cut bank I'll look for sign or a den their as well. Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep you updated. Yes mangy as usual in this area, rat tails but otherwise pretty healthy .
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Post by Wiley on Jun 4, 2006 9:26:05 GMT -6
37,
I'm glad you defined "old" at 3 - 4 years old. I agree. I'd put that coyote at 2 or 3 based on the picture.
Someday I'll have to show you what I consider "old". Perhaps we could get Bob to smile for a picture than you can see what "REALLY OLD" is. Hahaha! Just kidding Bob! JUST KIDDING!
37, based on your previous posts, I'm sure I didn't tell you anything, regarding your complaint, that you hadn't already thought of.
The amount of the feed by the old male and how far he has been traveling from the pasture, based on tracks, would be the best indication of whether or not a den was involved if you had nothing else to go on.
Sounds like you have it pretty well covered.
~SH~
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Post by z on Jun 4, 2006 9:56:18 GMT -6
This dude was OLDER then Wendt.......LOL! No more kitty snatching and terrorizing the kids at the bus stop for this dude......
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 4, 2006 10:17:20 GMT -6
I spent my kansas cat ck. on new davinci vaneers on my 8 front teeth last april. but man am I pretty now.
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Post by Stef on Jun 4, 2006 10:45:25 GMT -6
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Post by Wiley on Jun 5, 2006 6:45:26 GMT -6
Yup Z, that thar coyote's pretty old uh huh.
Lower jaw bone looks like it's curved a bit. Picture's not very clear. Usually the skull shape changes too as they get older.
Notice how Bob's head is more square than most trappers? Hehe! Sponge Bob square head.
Actually I think Bob is the "enzyte dude" with the permanent grin.
~SH~
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Post by trappnman on Jun 5, 2006 7:57:27 GMT -6
By gosh..I have noticed that about Bob's head. I've seen pictures of him in the early sities, and even with his full beard , his head was half that size......
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Post by bobwendt on Jun 5, 2006 9:10:03 GMT -6
hurumpf, pillsbury dough boys!
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Post by z on Jun 5, 2006 11:39:14 GMT -6
Another shot of him..... The other dog I would guess to be a 1.7 (lol) year old healthy dog and though clearly larger, That old goat fought like a SOB! Stand-offish type, Ears split, Full eye contact, Tail erect etc...... I like knowing the age of the coyotes I manage to pinch, I believe it tells a thinking trapper a lot about a lot that means a lot.....
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Post by Zagman on Jun 5, 2006 13:04:05 GMT -6
....looks like friggin' Minnesota in that picture, Z.
Sun-bathin' weather.....
Ah, yes, I remember this past "fall", 70 degrees one day, Wilma snow the next.
That big dude looks furred-up pretty good, though.
Careful with that pic, it's gonna end up on some redneck email sent round the world....."Redneck Clothsline"
Zagman
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Post by z on Jun 5, 2006 13:15:19 GMT -6
I can't win.....
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 6, 2006 14:13:45 GMT -6
I was out this morning at 5am no response to siren or howls. I searched the area no den found. No pups heard either. Looked over the lambs and ewes all spread out and looking good, no fresh kills I could find. No fresh tracks at the 2 water holes in the area. Traps nothing except 1 jack and 1 badger. Found 2 more spots in the long running N/S fence and hung snares very dry and tracking is about nill for this area.Thinking jacks in the fence but made sure with 2 snares cheap insurance otherwise fence is decent on this side. Not willing to say 100% but feel good on this deal as the lamb loss before getting those coyotes was every day. Will be back again on friday and see what shakes out then.
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Post by Wiley on Jun 8, 2006 7:15:34 GMT -6
Z,
That pic reminds me of some of the older coyotes I have seen through the years. Those "ancient" coyotes tend to shrink with age just like people. Well, just like old domestic dogs for that matter. Their heads get broad, their snout is shorter, their body is more compact, their chest is deep like your coyote's chest, and if you ever get the privelage to hear one howl, you'll never forget it. It sounds like a big old dog coyote with larangitis (sp?). Once you've heard one of these old boys howl you'll never forget it.
Another coyote that comes to mind was shaped like a greyhound and outran every pack of dogs in the country. He could clear a 5' fence like it wasn't there. He had exceptionally long ears but wasn't a real old coyote. He went to killing sheep and we shot him in a slough and the pilot commented how fast he ran. He couldn't outrun a Super Cub though. hehe! POP POP.....FLOP!
Speaking of "red necks", did you guys see the guy who hung Christmas lights up in the shape of a gutted out rein deer hanging from a tree in the front yard? Now that was a classic. Even had blood dripping from the rib cage. Gotta love it. I wish I had the opportunity to buy that man a cold one. What a fertile mind.
Lot of dark in that red fox Z! Interesting! Nice pics, thanks for posting!
If you get another one like that and want to show his age, have someone else take the pic while you open the jaw and roll the top and bottom lips back exposing all the teeth. That's the best way then you can see the canine teeth as well as the center teeth. FWIW?
~SH~
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Post by Zagman on Jun 8, 2006 7:42:33 GMT -6
Z was with me when I caught this old dude.....he just sat there and woofed (the coyote, not Z) On the approach, we could tell he was different from the other coyotes we'd seen that day.....from the side, it looked like he had NO teeth....normally, a side shot like this with the lips curled would show more than just that bottom canine tooth..... But like Wiley says, he had a short snout, big head, deep chest.....he was a cool coyote. An honest 50-plus pounder, too. Zagman
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