Differances between "snares" and cable restraints

[trappincoyotes39]

2 big differances with these tools. Look at the pics and tell me what you all think are the problems with cable restraints?

[markymark]

Your pics aren't showing.

[bobwendt]

lol, no difference to me. I`ve been succesfully live snaring coyotes in 1/8th for about 25 years now. I guess now I`m using "cable restraints", and here all this time I called them snares. no problems either as long as I can keep them from getting to something to tangle on.

[thebeav2]

Yep entanglement Is the difference between snares and CRs.

[trappincoyotes39]

Beav you hit on 1 of the 2. Notice the trail on the dead coyote and what little disturbance there is, I can reuse the same set again with a good killing snare setup. 5/64th 1x19 choke spring and a filed cam lock. Notice the results from a cable restraint weed whacker effect and the bloody mouth. A live coyote gets to chew and makes them worthless on anything but a 24hr check. Also I couldn't use a cable restraint in the top photo and get the coyote where he was, the bottom one I had to search for a track follow it until I was in the open and find the best spot for such a device, wasting time and allowing the coyote to still chew.

The thing with restraints is you have a high % with bloody mouths from working the cable over and that set area is done for. Give me a killing snare and I save time and can run 72 hrs with little worrys if that coyote will be there waiting for me or not.

[JWarren]

can't see the pics, might check the [I-M-G] [/I-M-G] to make sure you have the ['s and / right

[SteveCraig]

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/trappincoyotes35/IM000704.jpg

I cant see the pics either!

What are we doing wrong?

[bobwendt]

use 1/8th and he won`t chew out even on 72. of course I`m talking live biz, not pelt or dead biz. big difference in desired affect depending on what you want the coyote for. stay with little 3/32 or smaller and they are gone. worse than leaving pups to starve , to let live coyotes run off with snares on them from no entanglement and tiny cable and slippery locks. adc entangle and kill with a tight lock, live, 1/8th and no entanglement and a loose lock and stops. the exact opposite results needed for each case.

[robertw]

Bob,
Were friends but.....You really need to start using some 1x19 cable. You could easily drop down to 3/32 and not have any problems with chew outs.

Just my .02 cents worth..

[bobwendt]

robert, I`m referring to morning daily cks on 100% "live" snaring in weed crp fields. last time I tried 3/32 here in indiana, good cable and swiveling, I lost 50% to chew out.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob I want dead not live coyotes and states for fur harvest went to cable restraints as a fur tool. I'm showing that if you want the fur a dead coyote in cable is far better than a live one. A dead coyote can't chew or mess up good locations if you use a good kill set up, I can say I never set a snare where I wanted or needed the critter alive, so I use the componants and natural vegitation to make the large majority dead.

Even 1/8th 7x7 on 3 days if he gets hit the first night I'm betting that cable and the coyote is going to be rough on day 3 alive. I have no reason to keep him alive. I was surprised 1 cable restraint with stops and a wide open area was dead the next day, I feel this was due to lock type and the fighting nature of that coyote.

[trappnman]

The sad thing is- so many of the states that are expanding cables or just got cables- did so as a coyote tool. Many openings, laws, etc in those states are coyote (and fox I guess) specific.

To me- cable restraints TRY to keep the animal alive and will error on a higher % of escapes to GET that goal.

Cable snares can be used as a live tool- or can be used as a dead and done set.

[bobwendt]

I knew what you meant tc, I was just expounding on the differences in technique when the goal was a LIVE one. dang things, you try to kill them setting on 5 strand barb or kill poles and non slip locks and they live, and you try to keep them alive and they choke on a horseweed on a moonscape.

[pat]

In Michigan our DNR doesn't want coyotes or fox killed in snares. They are afraid that somebody's free roaming dog, some trespassing houndsman - or one that doesn't have his dog(s) under reasonable control as required by Michigan's Dog Law of 1919 - might accidentally lose a dog to a lethal snare.

So in order to protect the dog law violator's dogs, trappers are now required to use a cable restraint device that closes no smaller than 4.25 inches in diameter, is no longer than 5 ft in length - but can have a 3 ft extension, and has no entanglement that would permit a captured animal from getting more than two of its feet off from the ground at any one time. Not many fox are going to be around with that large of closed loop, not to mention coyotes. Trappers are reporting slit throats and coyotes backing out of the snares. The houndsmen are happy as pigs in slop. Not one dog was killed in a snare this year.

What prompted all of this? From 2001, when MI first got snaring legalized, through 2005, a grand total of 4 dogs were killed in snares on private property - the only place we could legally snare on dry land (and only from January 1 thru March 1 each year). Three of the dogs were all killed in one incident. They had been told a couple of weeks in advance that they could not run their coyote dogs on this particular piece of private property and that snares would be hung in there by the landowners grandson for coyotes. Guess what? One of the houndsmen snuck onto the property and hung one of his own snares which in turn caught and killed one of his own dogs. Then his hunting buddies ran their dogs in there and two of their dogs got killed. In another case, a landowner gave a trapper permission to snare coyotes on his land and then turned around and gave coyote hunters permission to run their dogs in there. When one of their dogs got killed and a CO was called the landowner told the CO that he was concerned about the lethality of snares to dogs and that the CO should push this up through the chain of command so this mishap wouldn't happen again.

That is it. I know because I used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain all reports of dogs killed in legally set snares on private property from 2001 thru 2005.

In MI we trap for fur or ADC work. I want my Coyotes dead as quickly as possible. I trap on private property where others should not be without permission. I should be able to use snares. Cable restraint devices, like those that were BMP (I hate that letters) approved, have their place - on public lands open to every tom, dick and harry.

There is a time and a place for all types of fur harvesting tools. It just depends on what your ultimate goal is. The problem is that our DNR wants to take a one size fits all approach to wildlife management.

Pat

[trappincoyotes39]

Notice the mouth!!! A live coyote has nothing to do but chew!



Pat I understand your delima, but I would try and convince your game dept to allow snares with written permission from the landowner, because in most states a trespassing dog is fair game. I see the need in heavy urban areas for their use but I think any state that has went to cable restraints need to devide up the area of each state as to areas of mandatory use and areas of other uses of cable. It comes down to a risk factor for the Game Dept and some states just don't want the heat, but I think some could be changed if given good ideas and thoughts on these issues. Also education is key because snares offer many mew comers a very cheap way to get involved in fur harvest but along with the use comes the need to educate uses for tools like snares and kill traps. Maybe a snares education course and then you are passed to use killing type snares? Just as some states now require bow hunters ed for bow hunting big game versus just hunters ed. May be worth a try and that way anyone who uses "snares" knows about break aways, areas not to set them and the such.

[bobwendt]

tc, using 1/8th you don`t get the bloody gums and lips ,as the cutting comes from frayed ends of partially severed smaller cable. even our big eastern coyotes can`t fray 1/8th, so maybe a small degree of bloody mouth from the smooth unfrayed cable, but nothing like many severed pok-ey sharp frays in the partialy severed smaller cable like 3/32 or less.

[trappincoyotes39]

Interesting but I know a dead coyote can't do anything but play dead ;D. I have learned that cable restraints would turn everyone into a 24hr check person and the cost to operate a line would go up alot and so would either private or Funded predator control if every one had to go run these silly things every morning. I think you would see alot of missplaced rebar out in the country ;D

[SteveCraig]

Bob is absolutely right about the bloody mouth. It is not so much the cable as it is FRAYED cable. I just do not see the chewing with 1/8 and even larger cable. Believe it or not 7/64 and even 5/32 cable makes great live snares. 1/8 is simply easier to work with for the average guy.
The smaller diameters used in cable restaints (for coyotes) are quite frankly, worthless, and does far more damage than good as far as animal comfort. TC's pictures is living proof of this fact.
That said.....
I am still and always will be in favor of a snare to KILL the animal dead as quickly as possible. To do this as quickly as possible, I want a smaller diameter cable, a quick and deadly locking lock, brush to tangle the critter in, a PROPER BAD, and as high a tie as I can get. I care not for a swivel as I prefer him dead before the swivel has time to take effect! Swivels are for live snaring in the open.
This is what snaring is and should be about. The beauty of snaring is it's simplicity. The more complicated we make it, the less fun it is and the more things there are to go wrong. Give me a canoe on a quiet stream, a 5 gallon bucket of snares for any type of critter you want to snare, and a pair of linesmen pliers and a couple rolls of wire, and I will be one happy trapper. There is nothing like it.
Just my opinion.
Steve

[trappnman]

Steve- does snaring give you the satisfaction of traps?

I like the fur, but a dead coyote in a snare isn't as pleasing to me, as one standing in a trap.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman I can answer for my own thoughts yes I get as big a kick finding a nice neck snared coyote on a faint trail set or a crawl under alot of guys would by pass as I do one bouncing around in a trap, the end result is still a dead coyote and in certain weather conditions snares will out do traps many times over.
Getting the right setup and knowing death is upon the next passing coyote is a good feeling and having the area look as though nothing ever took place takes you to another level of satisfaction. Having 3-5 snares and comming back and having 2-3 coyotes is a good thing.

I had 4 times in Iowa 5 snares and 5 dead coons the next morning all within 30 yrds and many 3-4 coon stops with snares.