|
Post by BK on Jan 24, 2006 17:41:23 GMT -6
Steve we were both on different pages, this is a broad subject,............I can easily defend some of my thoughts, but it may not pertain to you or what you wish to decipher.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 24, 2006 18:13:50 GMT -6
Bk my friend, I'm like your wife....sometimes I just don't have a clue as to what yo uare talking about...
I, like any experienced trapper- know what I know. If I tell you for example, that so and so is true, and you KNOW that it isn't, for you- then thats how it is. Most good trappers, agree on most things I find.
I KNOW that racks in mud change coyote behavior. I know that. Experience has showed me this.
I KNOW that tracks around a set in snow, do the same thing. I know this.
If others want to debate that- it would be like you listening to a debate on how the BE set doesn't work- you simply smile and say...whatever.
But my whole query- is how much do tracks change trail running behavior. I think a lot.
But hell, what do I know?
|
|
|
Post by BK on Jan 24, 2006 18:44:57 GMT -6
Hells Bells, I thoght you were talking about dirt sets, ......in this wind blown prairie area I just broom things off and call it good. I'd rather have a bit of snow than a hard rain............. All those stupid skunks I've tossed to the side come into play when things get nasty. Trapping ponds where fox are running on the ice and crawling up on rat houses are easy for a man with a little peat moss and a few rat carcases frozen into the ice.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 24, 2006 19:48:40 GMT -6
By gosh bk- until you said that, I forgot all about fox and cattails! I remeberber when I used to do a lot of bunny hunting in frozen marshes- and seeing all the fox sign. another wndow for snaring has opened...
|
|
|
Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jan 26, 2006 21:38:33 GMT -6
I notice that from about now to the end of Feburary I seem to catch coyotes in my cat sets especially with a little snow to cover them.
I think they get to running in groups and start to play grab ass around my flagged walkthrough sets.
Pretty soon one of them is in trouble.
I've noticed that lures with Valerian in them seem to attract coyote this time of year as well. Don't know why and haven't run any scientific tests but just an observation.
Joel
|
|
|
Post by rk660 on Jan 28, 2006 22:06:20 GMT -6
Ill walk right down trail on first check after a snow, shuffle feet and try to kick trail out to somewhat expose ground, add a little dark background instead of the white to blend in snare if possible. Tom Krause said worst thing to do was stop right at snare and turn around, Ive pretty much found that to be true weather snow on ground or not. Once Ive kicked trail thru snare I try to stay 5 or so yards parallel to trail on subsequent checks and enter from side if loop needs to be reset. Ill try to walk in same tracks after that. I usually have 6 and sometimes 12 or more snares in a setup fairly close together, so it would be too much farting around to put a pullflag on each one. I just walk a semicircle thru the area getting at least close enough to see if catch is made. If Im setting heavy enough and miss and occasional knocked down loop but can confirm no catch was made, Ive got enough still up that one down dont kill me. Of course you short legged guys leave twice the tracks i do, seen guys ducking under fences all week, glad I can just step over them
|
|
|
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jan 28, 2006 22:43:30 GMT -6
I forgot all about fox and cattails!
Cattails + beaver run = dead fox.
|
|
|
Post by SteveCraig on Jan 29, 2006 9:54:07 GMT -6
I walk in the trails to my snares and either step over or walk through it depending on the type of snare set. I do the same bare ground or snow. Its funny, cause Bob and i just had a discussion on this subject the other day in Kansas! He chewed me out for tracking up the place while he was setting a trap. Me.....I dont pay any particular attention to leaving tracks. Has it hurt my catch? Only the coyote knows. Back in Indiana, we got about an 8 to 10 inch snow and I just walked a trail in it and set my snares like I always do, and the next day took out the dead and haulter broke coyotes. I do shuffle my feet though, but more to open the trail up than to hide my tracks. Boys, snaring is a different ball game from using foot traps. When I was trapping full time, I just shoveld off a 6 foot circle and set my traps on bare ground. If more snow fell that night, I shoveld it off too. My tracks into the circle of dirt was more of a trail and an attraction. Heck.... I even used to set a snare in my approach trail after a while. That snare would catch as many or more than the trap! It is my opinion that snare avoidance is due to an odor problem. You MUST set the snare and walk on. I am talking coyotes here. The other animals it is a non issue. He knows you were there and he knows you stopped for some reason because his nose tells him so. Even hours after you left. Stay clean and this will help, but he will know you walked down that trail wheather on bare ground or snow. Steve
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Jan 29, 2006 10:12:36 GMT -6
dang tall guys stepping over fences while I crawl under ( I`d be easy to snare). plus tall guys have feet 20" long. now me, I leave more tracks but real tiny ones. all the coyote doo doo on my feet from tending the cage coyotes they all probably just think I`m a drippy coyote with big feet. we probably need to do the old wolfer stories about hanging off the side of a horse to set traps so as to leave no sign, lol. seriously , tracks are a non issue unless in huge amounts where they shouldn`t be, i.e. all over around a catch circle. then I think they can hurt you, especially in sand or snow where they show real clear. they can`t help and might hurt. that`s about all a guy can say for sure as every situation is different. I`m a "dirty" trapper, but if I can stay CLEANER at no extra time or expense I do, same on tracks, if it`s free I leave less tracks or do the quick kick out in the sand or snow. can`t hurt.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2006 12:13:52 GMT -6
I'm like you- I don't try to walk all around a set- but I do approach it and make it from the direction of the coyotes approach.
On remakes. Something that surprised me on scent was when I was collaring. I often had 2-4 people plus me around a caught coyote. I used to worry about it, but how can you control that many people- all taking pictures, measuring, etc. But I found out that my remake success was the same- whether I was there alone, or if a group was there. I'm a firm believer in they know you were there, they know you aren't there now.
but yet...
tracks are a non issue unless in huge amounts where they should`t be, i.e. all over around a catch circle. then I think they can hurt you, especially in sand or snow where they show real clear. they can`t help and might hurt.
Around thats what I see. Visible tracks- whether in mud or snow- seem to be a different matter. And since I'm also a firm believer in the visual ability of a coyote, I do believe that tracks that can be seen visually, matter more. Esp if made daily.
Yet, I see many times where coyotes yes indeed follow my tracks.
I think the visible tracks put up an extra caution flag- and thus with all senses alert, other things matter more.
I know the one coyote we had flair from the snares was because they saw the snares. We weren't walking on that trail.
|
|
|
Post by SteveCraig on Jan 29, 2006 13:12:01 GMT -6
"I know the one coyote we had flair from the snares was because they saw the snares. We weren't walking on that trail."
Was it the snare, or the obvious blocking that had to be done so you could use a very small loop and very close to the ground? Or was it the odor left at the set from setting, brush blocking etc.? Just asking HOW you knew this to be a fact?
In all my years of snaring coyotes and other critters, I can not honestly say that I lost a coyote because he "saw" my snare. Now he "may" have seen too much blocking. I do get refusals to my cat snares with alot of blocking and very small loops, yet I still catch coyotes even in these. Ask Bob, he saw me do this on this last trip. Coyote put his head through a 7 inch loop! He "may" have seen my kill pole that was out of place in a trail. That snare is not normal in every dig under in fences, yet I dont seem to get refusals there. Maybe others do, i dont know. Maybe I am living right. I just never have seen the amount of refusals other seem to get, and I use 3/32 and 1/8 cable all the time for my coyote snaring. Steve
|
|
|
Post by rk660 on Jan 29, 2006 14:18:13 GMT -6
I do think coyotes will sometimes spook from seeing a snare in a trail, especially when bright and shiney or snow background.
Ive seen too many dodge snares to beleive otherwise. Take a look at about any dog you take on trapline. Snare him once or twice then he ducks about every snare he see the rest of the day. Even on 1/16 cable Ive seen cats duck under or slip thru side if not fenced heavy enough. If I can see a bright shiney snare 20' away, why wouldnt the animal be able to see it. Doubt they recognize it as a snare per se, but they recognize it as some not natural enough to stick their head into. Ive snared plenty of animals in brand shiney snares on bare trails, but see where plenty more will be missed too. If I snared against a guy running 1/8" cable on coyotes that are baking soda grey-white, and me running tan painted 5/64, with equal numbers of snares on same ground, I think I know who would be skinning more coyotes at end of each day.
Different critters avoid snares in different ways. Coyotes will flat out refuse to go thru what they dont like, cats and coon will go thru it but duck or dodge the loop if it stands out too much, and fox a little of both Ive seen. even coon will dodge a loop that stands out like a sore thumb. Too much fencing that looks like a picket fence will spook some coyotes as well as jump sticks above snare at times. Cats will duck a stick without thinking nothing of it. Fox will duck most of time as long as not too confining. I prefer smaller brush for duck stick as opposed to a big 3-4" log. When done right your overhead if needed for deer to jump over adds to the breaking up of the snare.
Never seen too much written on it but on bare trails a log layed parallel to trail will help guide feet into loop, without having picket fence look. Narrow up where the feet go and the head follows.
On tracks the less you leave the better I believe, I dont like a lot of tracks around sets like someone milling around just outside of pattern. I dont think a few tracks kill ya, but I try to watch it as best I can. One thing I dont like is leaving an obvious trail of tracks right to location for people to follow. On snow when snaring, once thru to check or set, a few days age and all is well, but if you stomp thru with fresh set of tracks evey day it doest do any good. stay off side once youve gone through.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2006 14:27:54 GMT -6
It could have been odor from the snare. I don't think so, because the tracks stopped 4 feet away and that snare has been hanging there for 3 weeks. We were not walking o nthat rail it was clear snow on the whole trail.
It might well have been the blocking. In any case, I firmly believe it was a visual. Perhaps a combo of both.
|
|