Snow- how paraniod are you?

[Steve Gappa]

Snow and canines. Drives me crazy.

I see evidence of them both ignoring human activity and I see evidence3 of them avoiding human activity.

On my waterlines, I often see where coyotes walk right in my footsteps. But here, its every 3 days.

Yet in winter trapping and snaring, it seems like once a path is made, the coyotes are gone. Yet, the evidence isn't conclusive.

How paranoid are you about tracks in the snow? Both for snaring and trapping?

I'm starting to think that we should never set snares deep inside places, becasue impossible to check w/o leaving a trail. We took JWs idea about the film cannisters, and substituded plaastic envelopes- perhaps that will help.

But Im starting to think we should set snares ONLY where they can be checked from afar.

Comments?

[coydog]

Are we running the same line??

I see it happen, and then I dont see it happen.

Trapping in snow can be an evil rollercoaster, but one thing I like is that its easy to see how they react, or how they are moving through an area so if needed I can make adjustments.
Also it seems harder to pattern them this time of year with so many distractions in their twisted minds, and how much pressure they are sure to have had up to this point.

Different levels of snow and cold also factor.

I like that film canister idea for an indicator, I will try that next year, reminds me of tip-up ice fishing.

[primetime]

I was thinking about this over the weekend also, and I can not honestly say it is my "tracks" that cause avoidance. I see coyote tracks in my tracks far to often. Usually I bust the trail for them. Can we honestly say that coyotes can read tracks for what they are? Is it not the "Scent" we leave behind that actually alerts an animal to what was there?

Do you really feel that your success would be better without snow so your tracks wouldn't be visible?

I've been trying this snaring thing in a few locations also. I see coyote sign, I set it, no more coyote sign... Do we have some Super Coyote that has a very low tolerance for human intrusions? During the fall there is so much human scent around a coyote can not get away from it, but in the winter it's just you and me. ;D

I have to say it's human scent - even though I know that is taboo. I can not say it's my tracks alone, because I do not believe they can figure out people tracks from cow tracks or whatever without the scent factor. After a week, it's just a depression in the snow.

[primetime]

Also I have heard you say this a million times.

You can not keep a coyote from knowing you were there. He is going to smell you, but he also knows you are not there now.

Do you think the same should not apply for tracks?

The only tracks that would mean you are there now would have a boot in them.

But sets are getting avoided. I see it, you see it. Does the same apply for fall trapping and we DON'T see it? How many coyotes are within 15 feet of our sets and won't commit?

I can not say it's "Just the Snow".

[Steve Gappa]

Many that trap extensively in snow- Russ Carmen, Asa Lenon, believe tracks are taboo in snow, and carry wood snow paddles to fill in and cover their tracks.

I know for a fact that tracks around a set in mud, puts coyotes down.

Scent- not really. Rubber boots- coyotes can't smell that, right? Just being faceious- but I believe its more the DAILY tromping that puts them down.

Yes, I have no doubt that on bare ground, success is better because no VISIBLE tracks are present. Hes always going to know you are there, and tracks leaves both a visual and a odor. I personally have long believed visuals spook more coyotes than human scent ever did.

Depth of snow also comes into play. The deeper the snow, the more daily intrusions seem to be a factor.

[thefoxtrapper]

hehehehe, another good thing about beaver and otter trapping, the stupid bastahds dont know what human tracks in the snow mean, w

[primetime]

Really...

Well I can not argue that, because I don't have enough experience to argue either way. I guess I can't justify given a coyote that much credit.

But you are right that many big winter coyote trappers cover there tracks - I've read that many times.

Are we intruding into the coyotes core areas when we try and snare? Compare that with fall trapping the fields were the coyotes comes to travel and hunt for food.

[terminator1]

Do you believe in theory that the smartest ones are left now, and in places that have not wintered up they don't have to take any extra chances.

[Steve Gappa]

I give the coyote all the credit in the world.

winston- you got that about water trapping. Although I have seen where a beaver will get shy of tracks in the snow.

[primetime]

Point taken, so why not avoidance of human scent?

You brought up Asa Lenon - he also believes in limiting human scent. I've emailed him and read many of his posts over the past few years.

[Zagman]

When I was in Montana a couple of times, we just walked right through the snares and kept going.......there's a knack to walking through a snare and not knocking it down.

Regardless, that's what we did......tracks and all.

But, he did not have to come back right away, so was not doing this daily......

MZ

[Steve Gappa]

I've met Asa and hes a nice guy and a good trapper- but I far from agree with him on all aspects of coyote behavior or theory. Back in the old days, Asa, Wiley E, Bob Wendt, myself, Zags, ChrisM, a few more- had tremendous discussions on human scent. Asa believes that even a little spooks coyotes and will for example never wear his trapping shoes while driving the truck- instead he changes into them at every stop, etc. I'm not saying he is wrong, and for his area of the UP I'll take him at his word that those tactics are needed.

I believe that you will never convince a coyote that you were not there after 24, 48 hours. Like a hound though, he has the ability to tell if a trails s fresh or old- minutes old, hours old, days old. Now- do you think that a coyote is going to be spooked by human scent that is not fresh- that signals was here, not here now.

Wiley sent me a slew of coyote calling tapes. Very educational. Very interesting watching coyotes cross human scent lines. Fresh trails- ass over teakettle and GONE. No hesitation, no messing around just end over end and gone. Consistently saw this reaction.

yesterdays trails- maybe a sniff but no overt reaction.

Dogs can trail people that wear moon suits- individual people. I've seen with my own eyes how Mollie the bloodhound trailed a baby that was INSIDE a car. And those were man made creatures. I cannot even begin to phantom how well developed the nose of north Americas most proficient big predator must be.

He knows what you had for breakfast and if you kissed your wife.

Our coyotes come across scent daily, countless times during the day. Human scent, old scent, has never seemed- with lots of evidence to show it- to bother coyotes. But as those tapes showed- or what a coyote does if it smells you out hunting is- it runs with fresh scent.

One year- I kept a record of new sets- made before 12 or after 12. I found that on next day catches- it made absolutely no difference if a set was made at sunrise or sunset.

Now, the point can be made that daily intrusions change things- and that true. Daily activity- walking all around a field everyday, causes caution. Until he gets used to you. I have coyotes consistently stealing gophers from me- enough that I loose traps EVEN with them wired off. Because I am the farmer to them. Familarity breeds contempt.

I also don't see the pattern in the fall. I had 2 sets this year that took 5 coyotes apiece. I was in and out of their daily- never seemed to bother them.

a point on the collaring- I often had 3-4 people plus me standing around sets, at remakes it might be 45 minutes- and I never, never saw that to be a bother.

But mud- I avoid tracks in mud like the plague. When I walk into sets, given the option of walking on grass clumps or a dust road, I walk the clumps. I never leave my tracks in the catch circle or pattern. Why? I've found that the tracks increase digging and fooling around.

I see the same in snow. Have patchy snow and a big bare circle with a trap in it- better success then the one you walk up to every day in the snow.

Consider coyotes are at least (and studies have shown that they find more prey by their eyes than nose) as visually minded as they are using their nose.

Tracks are evidence humans were here. They don't smell fresh- but if they LOOK fresh (and if you hunt with beagles in winter, you have seen how a beagle will at times visibly follow fresh tracks in snow, avoiding the older ones. Sight running)...that might trigger a reaction.

I for sure see more coyote tracks in my tracks that are random or on the waterline 3 days old, than I do in regular patterns and daily visitation.

Come on you winter snarer's and trappers- I know you are out there- do you feel tracks in snow on a daily basis are bad news?
The thing about coyotes is their inconsistency on an individual basis. One particular coyote can do just about everything.

[primetime]

I'm guessing you are trapping the woods right and not out in the more open areas? When they discuss covering there tracks, I think (and I may be wrong) that this is in more open fields and areas that have almost "SMOOTH" snow. Places that a track stands out like... Well a sore thumb.

My woods - right know are FAR from smooth. There is snow here, no snow there, deer trails everywhere. Melted depressions from limbs, bark, leaves... The forest floor is just so broken up a human track doesn't really stand out. Is a human packed down trail really "look" any different then a deer packed down trail? Do coyotes avoid those trails or do they use them on a regular bases?

Shuffle your feet when you walk - no visible track.

Walk on your toes - looks like a cow.

Take a different path in each time.

More experienced snarer's what do you think? Because I to see this avoidance, but have no idea why and have yet come to any real conclusions.

[Steve Gappa]

1) you got as little snow as any place around last time Indian for example, got a mere dusting. Closer to 4+ inches out on the western edge where we are snaring. Snow cover all over is 2-4 inches.

2) our snares are in deep cover- its either same path, or ruin location. Same in quarry- you have one path.

3) we are not snaring where there are deer trails. and in fact turned down many locations because of that. Our areas are canine tracks, coon and us. And crows.

4) on a daily trail, what does shuffling do?

[Wright Brothers]

In my limited experience with the big dogs, my observation is, don't matter if snow on ground or not, if trail is walked to sets every morning, it causes avoidance. I was thinking this very topic earlier today as I set An area for the first time this season. Farmer told me another guy was in early fall and caught some but no yotes. I made 4 sets and 1 cable so I could check from the "deer hunter trail". No snow right now, but ground is soaked, like when beagles can trail easy, and no driving on farm roads. I have half a notion to haul a couple road kills into the thick stuff.

[primetime]

OK, I need to answer #4. ;D

Shuffling was added, because it does not appear to be a human track. And exactly it does nothing on a wore down trail used daily. SO I conclude it's not the tracks, but the daily introduction of human scent on the trail.

We concluded that one set of tracks will commonly have coyotes walking them. Trails used daily - coyotes avoid.

Is it the tracks? (Human trails and deer trials look alike after a week of use)

Or is it the scent?

[trappnman]

if you beleive scent to be the factor, then you do.

I don't.

[conibear]

Hey Steve my snaring experience with coyotes is very low but would it work coming in on the side of the trails to set and check snares and maybe set in the bends more instead of the straight aways just my 2 cents. It's funny thing coyotes will follow your tracks in the snow until a person sets a snare then they disappear. Maybe Marty Sneaker will see this Post and help out. good luck

[primetime]

It's either tracks AND scent or neither. Not one or the other.


All else aside - It's the DAILY disturbance.

This time of year you've got area A - 1 acre were you visit daily to set and tend traps.

Area B - no disturbance.

Your a coyote??

[SgtWal]

If it's the daily visit then why doesn't something like that happen to the guys who drive up to every set in dry conditions? Yotes have to have put 2 plus 2 together about cars and people.
Are the sets IN the trail you walk? Do YOU avoid the set each visit or walk through?
We haven't had enough snow to worry about around here. But I always set to one side of the trail I walk on when setting snares dry or snow.
Just an old habit, I set the cross trails and always double back to make the set from the side of the trail.
Have never noticed trail avoidance on my walking trails and the sets work. Maybe it's the extra disturbance at the set site.


wayne