K9 Activity

[trappermike220]

Anybody else having low activity from k9s,in spotty population areas?The weather was unseasonable warm and we had visitations to about oh 40% of the traps we had out,but they didnt agresively work the sets.Plus it seems the fall shufle allready occured and there putting on some miles now.Anybody else expericening this too?I think I might wait alittle while before I get some k9 sets out,or untilthe weather finnally snaps.

-Mike

[trappnman]

I personally think that here one of two things is happening- 1) I simply do not have the number of coyotes I think I have or/and 2) they simply are not moving much at all.

I believe its the later- that the unseasonably warm weather, the easy living still offered... combine to keep local coyotes local.

I'm doing better than last year with al lthe rai nwe had then, but not as good as I have hoped.

Toughest thing in the world is to raise that daily average up one over a long stretch.....trappnman

[thefoxtrapper]

as warm as it is and still early, if your not setting on sign, you are going to be dissappointed, Ive trapped early and late and I can tell you that trapping in 80 degree heat and just setting traditional locations does not pan out, this holds true for any animal, unless its their breeding or dispersal period, you have to set on sign to make quick large catches, at least that is what I've experienced over the years, dont pay to set in a dead area, if no sign, he aint walking on air, w

[trappnman]

setting on sign for coyotes is a hit and miss propostion-

coyotes aren't like beaver or coon-

if coyotes ahave been in the area all summer, all early fall on a sporadic basis- they probably are going to be there during trapping season. I have many, many locations where there are fresh tracks, fresh scat (as in last 2 weeks) BUT the coyotes aren't at that EXACT spot now.

But they will be.

Those that continually talk of moving after taking one-two coyotes- what is it- you have totally unlimited excellent locations to trap and a free supply of gas?

Reality in farm country- I'm starting to think that I perhaps am the only one that actually traps working (cattle, cows, sheep, crops, manure, hay, the whole shebang) farms...?....

1) access is limited...the old "you can't get there from here" trick

2) permissions are limited

3) "good" areas are limited

4) coyotes move around as the harvest progressions...

what is true in July and what is true in January- stable habitat, more reliable patterns, coyotes staying to home more-----simply are NOT true during harvest, which is the exact time we trap coyotes here.

So- you trap the travel lanes, you trap the neighbors farm, you trap where you can....

and in doing this- its absolutely foolish- to set up a few days and go.

[bobwendt]

#1 the fall shuffle is ZERO factor as it hasn`t even started yet, maybe 5 % max. #2 I`m with winston 100%. I`ve trapped in 100 degrees in the summer and the truth is if you don`t see him run off when you drive in to set , you aren`t close enough. folks that fur trap only get this false impression k9s are everywhere and traveling everywhere, you need to summer trap to get a grasp on this. I wouldn`t weaste my time setting ant "traditional" location early and hot if no sign, i.e. tracks and turds. you can`t catch what won`t come with in a mile away of you. And I don`t have time or miles for this wait 2-4 weeks stuff, never did.

[thefoxtrapper]

well, coyotes are not thick here, so I have not even considered them when trapping in the past, i have always been a fox trapper, the coyotes appear to be multiplying as more sightings and I see more sign when hunting than I use to, now its not many,but more than in the past.....you are not the only one trapping farms t-man, I dont start trapping till about now, so most farming activity is coming to an end for the most part, most places have good access, more so when dry, if real wet, well even the roads are real bad......99% of the time, if I cant set the trap from my truck, I dont set it, period, no time to walk and dark most of the time anyways, so need the headlights and dont feel like carrying chit halfway across a field, sure I probably dont catch a few extras, but doubt worth the extra time an effort, as far as permission, mainly just so many hassles nowadays is what limits permission, like dogs, houses going up, pets, hunters, not so much people against trapping, getting permission is getting harder but mainly because i have to work around all the obstacles and many times, their time schedule doesnt fit mine, thus I dont get the time to trap it, no one really trapping down here on land, so just drive further and get bigger better farms is all one has to do, if someone wants the hassle of lining up a bunch of land it is still around, going quick to development, but areas it is still around, just have to get out and accept the fact you will not get every last place you ask at, the only time I will trap like you guys talk about is if I am bobcat trapping, but even then, most catches I have made come within a few nights, but I try to set on sign or in areas I know bobcast frequent, I usually stay a week and pull when bobcat trapping, w

[trappnman]

I've trapped spruing, summer wiunter and fall. Even more important- I am out in the woods and fields almost every day.

I think I know a little about coyotes.

If attempting to take 1-2 for ADC- of course you have to be right on top of them..IMPOSSIBLE TO DO ON A WIDE SCALE IN THE FALL IN MY COUNTRY HERE.

It gets real frustrating when I continue to talk over and over and over again about crop harvesting occuring for 2 or more months here every fall- and what that does to the coyote population.

Its not a small factor- in fact its the biggest dominating factor in fall trapping there is bar none- not the weather, not access (although related) not hunting, not trapping- HARVEST.

Fully 75-80% of my farmers are still in the fields most of the day and a lot of the night.

This isn't- and I repeat- cash crop farming where the harvest is picked, chopped, baled and/or plowed in a day or two. Its an on going thing that occurs day after day here. Then the electric fences go up and cows go in.

Coyotes are in flux. You need to be patient.

[bobwendt]

crops are the same here tman, nobody gets crops out in a day or two. they start here in sept, work solid thru winter and some fool farmers do so well with the gov`t ck that they never do get the crop out. probably 90% of the beans are out here now and only 40% of the corn. and they been going at it for near 2 months now. you just have to go to them if they won`t come to you, the coyotes i mean. get yourself a horn howler and go out and find the buggars and go set right on top of them ,and skip all the dead ground. so easy your grandma could do it- or you could go set all the "traditional locations" and just hope they are there withoiut a simple blow on the horn a few morning to tell you if you are wasting your time or not. I can tell and show but I can`t make you do it if you won`t. you`re my friend, let me make YOU some money, get yourself a $40 cow horn howler and save the time and miles running emty traps on a wing and a prayer.

[trappermike220]

I'll have to get Jameson to resigester on this site,and let him explain to you what was going on around here,since I was trapping with him,he could explain this better than I could.

[z]

"So easy your grandma could do it"........

Thats really making me feel on top of my game Bob!

Think I'll just accept the fact that I suck.

[terminator1]

Its been thirty years since I've been into trapping for fox, before the coyote era. I loved it, but loved to listen to a hound treeing a coon more.last couple years I did trap I bought off set jawed traps so I didn't have to make the desision for that $20 coon in the trap. now getting to old to chase a dog every night the trapping bug is getting stronger again.I guess I have a little catching up to do. The point is I trapped more on location then I did on sign and had no problem catching animals. But then IN central Pa. No one longlined we had our area and trapped it for the season.

[bobwendt]

aw z, you know more than you give yourself credit for. just go do it, you can leave grandma at home.

[bobwendt]

mike, yes, get jameson on, he always has good info and is a regular straight forward guy. always did take a liking to bob, just a general all around good guy and good trapper. the kind that can ad a lot here.

[foxtrapperwoman]

Hey Bob do you think my so- so locations seem all dead because of the warm weather, and that if it gets cold the foxes in that area will move around more?

Also does anyone know where in a big alfalfa field is good to set for foxes? There are no waterways or anything obvious.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob has some good advice find the coyotes and move to them, also the YOY coyotes are real suckers for bait piles, we have been in the 50-60's and dryer than a popcorn fart the last 2 months, but big baits pay off nicely even in fair weather. I have roadkills setup and 2 ranchers lost a few cows and ewes to whatever, in the last 2 weeks I have picked up 10 coyotes off of these bigger baits even with the balmy weather. If legal give it a try, just follow your laws!!!
The coyotes still are on the move just maybe hanging closer to water and better warm weather cover than one would think at this time of year. I too have trapped many years in the corn and bean belt, and one location that pays no matter were crop harvest was at, drainages the coyotes still hung out along the edge of drainages,creeks,rivers etc. These areas will be used if 100% of the corn is in, or any other % as they all travel the edges and all like to go to these areas for water, not to mention they also can serve as barriers depending on their size. I also noticed cedar stands next to beans or corn were areas coyotes would travel to and from. When the pressure gets on them during harvest they seek out areas that in the past shows little change like cedar stands, thickets, crp stands etc.
Keep after them and be looking for fresh sign as you can learn alot by what the sign tells you.

[trappnman]

comparing cash cropping of larege commercial farms to small working farms- isn't even comparing apples to oranges- its comparing apples to chickens.

To begin with- if harvesti s taking 2 months- then its a rare occurance or stupidity. Either te weather or the lack of a corn piupeline is the resaon.

The biggest difference is animals- Without animals- the amount of field work, the amount of different things that NEED to be done, is vastly reduced. in cash crop- pick corn, perhaps fall plow. Thatas it.

Compare that to rotating crops and animal use. Far, far different use methods. THats not opinion- its a fact.

Of course the coyotes are still there- but there is no reason for them to move when there is no harvest and they are not- and if you don't believe this your small farm experience isn't much- moving much and they are not moving far. This too is a fact- comfirmed by the radio studies here.

I am well aware of the value of howling. But tell me this...

you set up your traps where you have permission and where acccessable- you howl and the coyotes are down in a steep, inaccessable coulee ...pull your traps or wait?

you set your traps and howl- the coyotes are 2 farms away, where you cannot (for whatever reason) trap......pull your traps or wait?

you set your traps and howl and the coyotes answer from the back forty- but the farmer is picking corn after milking and pickes to 2-3 in the morning- pull your traps or wait?

you set your traps and howl and the coyotes answer from the wqoods- but deer seaosn is tomorrow- pull your traps or wait?

There are a zillion such scenerios- they happen all the time.

btw- MN is NOT Iowa- my drainages here are very, very limited- now canals, nor drainage ditches, no meandering rivers going through beans- trust me in that after more than 2 decades pursuing coyotes HERE..I might know a little about thier habits.....trappnman

Drainages HERE are hay waterways going through the fields- and my friends..where do you think I'm trapping?

[bobwendt]

the reason most farmers drag out harvest so long here is they are so big(1,000s of acres of row crops) that they have to start early on the front and end up late on the tail end. throw in the incessant rains that stop field work and a 2 week operation under ideal weather turns into a 3 month operation. mainly just too much rain and poor soil conditions. that howler would still help you as some areas are just a dead waste of time, no coyotes there this year, at least not now. swing by every 3 weeks or so and howl again and if they are there, set her up. WARNING THO, hearing coyotes respond will get one overly excited and you risk becoming a caller and shooter!

[trappnman]

while I don't disagree tat coyotes are here today and htere tomorrow- you really have 2 choices.

One is to set up only where you do hear coyotes respond (unlike tracks, scat- howls say they are there NOW.) But the problem with this, is you get no continuity in your line- and thats a #1 concern for me. In other words- I can't set up this farm here, that farm 20 miles away, the next farm 10 miles past that, etc.... I need to plan out loops and lines that make economical sense-

my better plan would be to indeed set up those farms- but only as the fit the pattern. In other words- set up those locations, but I also have to (or want to) set up those inbetween locations- locations where coyotes were, are not now, but will be again. And wait.

Another scenriuo- you pull into a location that looks good- fresh sign about. You set up- 2 nights later you catch a coyote. Now- do you pull after 1 coyote? Or do you wait until those coyotes come back? for efficientcys sake, I prefer to leave those traps (as long as they fit the pattern of the line) until the coyotes return. Add in a lot of these areas- and while not all are paying off daily- some are. Add in the fresh set ups- and you have a small farm coyote line.

I do probably err on the side of staying too long- but if driving by places, why not check traps as opposed to having the traps in a box in the truck?

[bobwendt]

we just look at efficiency different. I would rather try for 6-8 a day on only 10 stops of a 3 hr 125 mile line, but all 10 stops primos, as time is more valuable to me than fuel. you will run the same 125 miles or so on a 8 hour run with 30-40 stops and maybe catch the same 6-8 a day. maybe less! a calender year ago I set up my normal first run that had always kicked out 25-30 coyotes the first 3 or 4 days, stayed 6 days because I just knew they had to be there as they always were before, but they weren`t- died off, all caught, I dunno, but they just weren`t there as I caught 1 or 2 the whole time. I finally kicked myself in the arse as I KNEW better after the first run, and I set up a new line 40 miles away. caught 9 the first night and 50 in a week. later in the year I went back to that dead line and set it up again and did pull 5-6 off it but it wasn`t even worth my time after shuffle started ,let alone early. Don`t let yourself get caught in that trap. I knew better yet stayed way too long anyway on that first line. Don`t you make the same mistake I made as WE BOTH KNOW BETTER.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman alot of my advice was for Mike! But as long as you bring it up? Don't you trap the root river area? or how about the mighty Miss? These areas I would think are close to you? You don't have any cover that doesn't get near the man pressure? Our rifle deer season will start this weekend and I know a few areas that are "back in it" and thats were the coyotes will stack up after the first day of the gun barrage comming through. My point for Mike and anyone else, is coyotes are like many other species when they get chased around for whatever reason, they know the haunts to go to, that will provide cover and will be there on a regular basis, it may change a little from season to season but they will hunt at night and be back in these areas within a few hours of day light. No pressure or change and they can be found in many of your typical non pressure spots,all times of the day, I seen 2 coyotes at 1:30pm this afternoon, but when you have hunters,harvest etc, then you need to find were they are, Bob hit it go to the coyotes instead of waiting for them, Some of the newbie trappers who weren't around when coyotes brought 60.00+ and fox the same would have a harder time, when fur prices were high you had to go to them and cut them off before your compition who camped out and waited would get a large% of any species.
I had areas for coons that although I had fewer private land spots because of the high prices and same for canines, I could cutoff the critters before the hounds of bridge and ditch trappers got much of a shot at them and had alot less theft than the bridge and ditch guys as well. Why setup a bridge or culvert and risk high theft, when I could gang set on the private ground 1/4mi or more back in and head them off? Same with coon hunting, we used silent tracking dogs durring those years, we killed a bunch more coons with silent trailers versus loud mouths on areas that had received alot of hunting pressure, the coons wised up to the loud mouths, the silent dog was hell on those coons!
The whole point is get after them or give them a reason to come to you, Mike I would think about bait piles if legal you will be surprised at how well they work, and the nastier the weather the better those spots will be. Good Luck