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Post by MRussell on May 1, 2005 6:53:17 GMT -6
I would suggest that you start out with 2 or 3 of each(if your budget will allow that) of the traps that have been mentioned and see what you like the best. I totally modified some & used some pretty much stock and after catching a few yotes have came to a conclusion on what satisfied ME. Everyone has a favorite. I can tell you that a 1.75 trap will frustrate the dickens out of a newbie. It did me.Well after season was over I wished I would have used the widest jaw spread that the law would allow!
MR
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Post by trappnman on May 1, 2005 7:10:42 GMT -6
I think in the first season, ANY trap will frustrate a newbie but you are correct on 1.75s- its a trap that takes a little more care in using. if you want to use a 1.75: 1) while I haven't even begun to use all the brands of 1.75s out there- I hear from many trappers how their 1.75s get trashed by coyotes. I use Duke 1.75 exclusively, and in a fair amount of coyotes have never had a trap break- wthe the exception of occasionally chewing on the dog- I have no trap related problems. 2) short chains are (IMHO) a must when using small trap. A chain 10 inches or so is about right. This prevents long lunges. Double stakes or earth anchors are needed. 3) night latch your traps- or as I do, simply grind down the notch so you have a very small (about 1/16, maybe a little more) notch. Adjust your pan accordingly and file the end of the dog square. 4) Absolutely essential to pack inside the jaws as tightly as outside the trap. Don't pack hard over the jaw itself. There are many ways to do this- a trappers cap is quickest, easiest and best way I found. 5) foot guides- perhaps trickiest part- you need to learn how to guide to get the coyote stepping on the pan, not the jaw. 6) stepdown sets increase the efficentcy of the smaller traps by a large margin Having said all the above- I do like my Montanas over the smaller traps- for 3 reasons 1) use of a screen increases catches (not reduce losses) 2) has room for error 3) quicker set making.
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Post by JWarren on May 1, 2005 17:29:28 GMT -6
What if price was a factor? Would you take 2-1.75 dukes or 1 montana per location?
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Post by trappnman on May 1, 2005 18:50:07 GMT -6
interesting question------------------
on an entire line- the 2 Duke 1.75
in one specific location for 1 specific coyote- the montana
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Post by Rob220swift on May 2, 2005 16:47:46 GMT -6
Coyotes only: #3 Bridger laminated. 4 coiled after it gets nasty. Berkshire disposables with 2 crunchproof swivels. Quicklinks to connect chain to cable stakes.
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Post by trappnman on May 2, 2005 18:49:04 GMT -6
JW- I misread your question- owe it to long days.
I read it as: given a choice, would you prefer 2 Dukes over 1 montana
and over a line yes I would- I have enough confidence in the dukes to know sheer # of traps would be deciding factor.
but... as you asked- Pricewise....
only way to answer it- is that when I need to buy traps- I know I need X doz. So- I would but say 3 doz montanas over 3 doz dukes.
I've never doubted bigger traps were more EFFICIENT....but as I get older I hate the misses more- and the bigger trap does seem to make "patten misses" go away.
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Post by bubcat on May 2, 2005 19:44:51 GMT -6
Affordable? #2 Bridger o/s, laminate, 4 coiled.
Preference? MB-650, o/s, laminate
I use the bridgers for the $20 coyotes, and the MB's for the $33.00 coyotes. ;D
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Post by gunny on May 2, 2005 20:18:27 GMT -6
Mostly, #3 & #4 Montgomerys and #3 Bridgers. Can't even imagine using a #1.75 as a staple, day to day coyote trap.
Tried the Montanas everybodys raving about and do not care for them. Although, the dogless design is ideal.
The #3 victors conventional CS are very good. Haven't tried the softcatch yet. Played with some at the state trapper sale and they look very good. Also might help a trapper if liability issues arise.
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Post by trappnman on May 2, 2005 21:22:08 GMT -6
nopw gunny- lets be fair. You inserted a screwdriver in one, and didn't like the results. Try them on coyotes
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Post by MRussell on May 2, 2005 21:35:57 GMT -6
MY favorite traps are anything #3 with high levers and good enough springs to bring it out of the ground quickly.I modified my 1.75 N.W.'s and love them even more now that I know more about where to put my guides! 99% of my newbie problems had nothing to do with my equipment. So in a nutshell, take part of that trapping budget and buy a couple of good books and a good video or two and go through them 3 times each before season starts.
BTW: B..... turned me on to screen pan covers for my #3's. VERY NICE !!!!
MR
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Post by gunny on May 2, 2005 22:45:23 GMT -6
trappnman,
I'll be fair and frank. I know you guys sell Montanas here and I would not want to hurt your business. I hope they make you millions.
I love the jaw spread and the dogless trigger. If I was to engineer a perfect trap it would resemble the montanta.
However, I know of some guys that have had major pullouts on cats, even cats on drags. One gentlemen sold all of his due to numerous pullouts.
I have a total of four brand spankin new Montanas. each one has been throughly inspected. Two of those I would try (with hesitation) in the field. The remaining two I would not. Nothing makes a person sicker than waiting two weeks for that 3-500 dollar cat to step on the pan and then watch him pullout.
I can honestly say that I have never lost a cat due to a pullout. Never, not even one.
Moreover, if a guy is having 2-4% pullouts on #3 Bridgers and #3 Montgomerys, the losses on a Montana will easily be double that. 4-8% is nothing on coyotes but the math is easy on cats. In one season thats several thousand dollars.
I have 25 year old longsprings that will hold better.
Call me an anal retentive crazy man with a screwdriver in his ear. I'll giggle all the way to the bank.
If they would hold equally with the #3 bridgers and Montgomerys, I would buy a hundred Montanas tomorrow.
Respectfully,
gunny
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Post by JWarren on May 3, 2005 0:37:52 GMT -6
I'm going to buy more footholds this summer. Since I am poor, and since duke 1.75s will hold 15.00$ coyotes, I am going to buy twice as many dukes. I don't know how you guys can make a profit with 15.00$ coyotes, 15.00$ traps, and a whole line of people who don't want to pay 15$ for a trap so they take yours every chance they get. The 1.75 might miss a few but I bet the extra traps in the ground will make up for it. Besides, I use snares most of the time and the footholds are just for fun.
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Post by Possum on May 3, 2005 4:54:35 GMT -6
If you are in this for profit, you are kidding yourself. $10 trap, $20 traps, $2.25 gas, $20,000 trucks, $25 pee. Time, knives, stretchers, heat, Woolite, boots, gloves, .22 bullets -- add it all up. I only lost probably $1000 dollars last year if I'd added it all up but if I'd have worked harder I could probably have lost $1500.
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Post by trappnman on May 3, 2005 6:33:16 GMT -6
gunny- doesn't matter if I sell them or not- how can you possibly come to any conclusions without trying them? If don't like them- thats fine- but I never heard of this problem at all...
I know personally know doz of people that actually used them and caught a lot of coyotes in them- and none has ever mentioned a problem like you encountered. If its a real problem- contact John.
I'd like to know the NAME of someone that had major pullouts with them. You made no mention of that in you other thread on Dobbins- your only concern there was that you did a screwdriver test on them- and you saw the response you got with that there- and I would concur. Not many anmals carry screwdrivers.
I'm not going to argue about them -heck, I have people tell me all the time how "coyotes explode Duke traps"...
All I will repeat is I've talked to Gerald quite a bit, talked to John, talked to a lot of people who used them including myself and NONE have had the problem you described.
There were some problems with chains early on- but that has been resolved.
heres an offer- you send those "bad" traps to me- I'll replace them even though I didn't sell them to you- I'd sure like to hold those traps in my hand and show them to Gerald....
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Post by trappnman on May 3, 2005 6:40:18 GMT -6
Gunny- something fishy here- sorry to say it, but it seems like its the case-
first you posted on Dobbins a week ago- saying the trap is no good because it failed your screwdriver test- no mention of any other person having problems AT ALL in what you posted...
there also, you were advised to call John- that if you had a trap like that it was defective and yes, things happen. You could have gotten that 1 in 100,000 traps that for whatever reason was bad.
then you post here---
"Tried the Montanas everybodys raving about and do not care for them."
and thats simply not true- you never have tried them out at all.
then you post that you know "several guys who have had problems with pullouts"
frankly- I'm not buying any of it. I think there is an ulterior motive against John going on here.
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Post by Drew on May 3, 2005 7:15:21 GMT -6
here's my to buy list so far: couple duke 1.75's couple montana #3 couple Bridger #3 and #2 maybe a MB-650, or BMI k-9 wolfer my wife is going gonna flip, lol These should give me a little variety to test which ones i like the best...looks like i'll be spending alot of time on the edge of the garden playing with traps
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Post by blakcoyote on May 3, 2005 7:37:38 GMT -6
here's my to buy list so far: couple duke 1.75's couple montana #3 couple Bridger #3 and #2 maybe a MB-650, or BMI k-9 wolfer my wife is going gonna flip, lol These should give me a little variety to test which ones i like the best...looks like i'll be spending alot of time on the edge of the garden playing with traps Are you in for a suprise if you think she'll flip.Wait till you decide which ones you like best and you start buying by the truck load Flip will be mild. ;D
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Post by blakcoyote on May 3, 2005 7:40:11 GMT -6
As far as the montana's go,I agree with Steve on this subject and feel many do also.
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Post by trappnman on May 3, 2005 9:02:18 GMT -6
Good luck testing....! then you know for yourself...
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Post by 17HMR on May 3, 2005 10:20:10 GMT -6
There is nothing wrong at all with the Montana #3, I used 2 doz last year some with 24 inch chains many spots looked like a bomb went off at the site but the yote was aways still there. Two of my cat were caught with montanas had no trouble on that area either, held one with 2 toes. I will be buying more, Drew I think you will be likeing the montana very much. Jeff
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