|
Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 15, 2005 18:44:33 GMT -6
Ah- I see what you mean- i'll correct that.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 15, 2005 19:07:53 GMT -6
Bob you won't have that all piled up on the stake head if you let the whole works swivel around the stake head, as the animal spins round and round, he keeps cleaning up after himself and the piles will be spread out futher and you'll have basically 4 swivels working for you, when you include the lap link being able to go 360 around the stake.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 15, 2005 19:55:54 GMT -6
my fox traps are set up with a lap link and technically could rotate around the stake , but I drive the stakes too deep, the head end I mean. Never had foot damage or leg damage from the inability to rotate tho. there is a double swivel in line plus the swivel on the trap base, plus I root out a big area to make a set, often with a long handled adze thus clearing out most potential fouling vegetation. I make a lot of bank sets like zags uses too, like a dry land mink pocket. but for canines.
|
|
|
Post by Stef on Mar 15, 2005 20:14:30 GMT -6
Here's a couple I found Longer chain = more freedom and less foot damaged compared to short chain set up in my area I noticed a high % of these things happened when the weather was nasty. Short chain pics Stef
|
|
|
Post by td on Mar 15, 2005 20:23:25 GMT -6
That second to last pic looks like a good case for swivel at the trap.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 16, 2005 5:59:56 GMT -6
had a huge brute wolfy looking coyote this a.m., hind footed and zinging like a son of a gun back and forth, body slamming, rearing up 6-7 feet tall, I mean going nuts. Got out and saw no part of the toes under the jaws, just the toe tips between the jaws. 3 chain links and the swivels. I would bet anything that coyote would have popped free on a long or even medium chain. Couldn`t get the hog snare over that ones head fast enough! another spot this am had a solid caught coyote about 2-3 feet from where a front toe caught one jerked out on me last november, right in front of me! Just watched it run off. Well I look at this ones other front foot and guess what, the 2 middle toe nails only are gone and nubbed over smooth. he he he, I bad.
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Mar 16, 2005 6:36:51 GMT -6
I am somewhat surprised to hear some very experienced trappers say a swivel at the trap is not necessary.
I agree that the more I have, the better.
I often set in hay fields that are relatively high OR use a big pile of cut hay as a backing. I think longer chains help in this area as well to prevent clogging.
Still, sometimes, there is so much vegatation wrapped around the stake at the swivel and the mid-chain swivel, and while they are still somewhat operable, the one attached to the d-ring on the bottom of the trap is fine.
Yes, coyotes often clear through a lot of this junk around the set, but my traps dont always catch my targets. Smaller animals like fox, coon, and skunks really foul the traps with vegetation and such. Last year, I had to PULL a trap due to the amount of grass wrapped in the chain and swivels and I could not get it out. It was a skunk catch......
My swivel fouling has lessened the more I use the Sterlings.......
I gotta believe this lack of fouling will save you some toe catches too....well, my toe catches are always there.
Three swivels minimum on my 20" chain, but even when I ran an 8" chain, same deal. Like the shock springs, certainly felt that it couldn't hurt.
MZ
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 16, 2005 7:29:11 GMT -6
zag, in the confusion it might have been misconstrued, ALL my traps have a swivel at the trap and an additional double swivel mid chain , ha, between the two chain links that is! I lose 1-2 toe caughtas a year, mostly before I get there. Hadn`t seen one run off in front of me for years till this one last fall, and I paid that loan off by dinging the same buggar again this morning. This time he was solid, the whole foot. Remember that pic of the 68lb one? That guy had a distinct scar line high up on a hind foot and one toe gone and his knee on that side froze solid from blowing it out whenever he finally pulled somebodys jaws some years back. This coyote this morning , even if he did not get out , would have blown his knee out too if long chained.
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Mar 16, 2005 7:35:43 GMT -6
Got it....so than you agree a swivel is indeed important at the trap.
I figure, for the pennies they cost and ease of implementation, why not?
MZ
|
|
|
Post by Edge on Mar 16, 2005 7:41:45 GMT -6
Zags,FWIW I had never heard that myself til yesterday,from anybody,but theres lots of stuff I havent heard. For myself,I'm gonna leave that swivel right where it is.The more,the better.
Edge
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2005 8:13:56 GMT -6
Wow- so even though I didn't invent the dirthole- I get credit for being the first in print to say a SWIVEL is not needed at the trap ... Cool!
I find a SWIVELING POINT to work as well for me, with my traps, in my area, with my coyotes, with my chain length, on my 24 hour check, in my weather, wearing my boots, etc....
Time to move on-
you can add a 100 things to a trap and chain- KISS!
end swiveled, stake swivels, middle swivels, baseplate D ring swivels, big name swivels, homemade ones- etc. on a short chain- much of it- like a shockspring- is overkill. In my humble opinion of course.
I surprized any fur was caught before the modifcation craze.
|
|
|
Post by Mike Spring on Mar 16, 2005 8:32:34 GMT -6
Lots of fur caught tman, just not as much held.
Mike Spring
|
|
|
Post by 17HMR on Mar 16, 2005 8:34:31 GMT -6
KISS for me too. But if I could get loss % down to almost 0 I wouldnt think twice about all the bells and whistles.
|
|
|
Post by Edge on Mar 16, 2005 8:36:12 GMT -6
First off,Bob invented the dirt hole.But he got it off an Inca website,so the design is not original.
Onward,
**I surprized any fur was caught before the modifcation craze. **
I cant imagine anyone considering a swivel at the trap a "modification";at least not on a foothold trap.The oldest traps I ever used had a swivel at the trap,or more accurately,at the end of the spring.But even the old end chained CS traps had a swivel there.
I was going to copy paste the part where you said you agreed with BobW and western trappers who say a swivel at the trap is wasted....but alas...it has been sent to the cyber circular file.
Sooo, at any rate,since removing the existing swivel point is really creating work in a profession that is already labor intensive;I would heartily recommend leaving it there.
Edge
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Mar 16, 2005 8:39:47 GMT -6
When I set a trap for coyotes, I cannot guarantee that something else might beat the coyote there.....fox, coon, skunk, whatever.
While I have fewer fox than most, with the few that I catch, especially the greys, I find the swivels to be a benefit.
The longer chains that I use clearly help avoid the mounding problems with the reds.
I have video of coyotes and fox in traps and as they fight and twist and TUG, the swivel at the trap is the one doing the most turning, clearly.
My traps are all center-swiveled, so this turning at the trap would be more clear than an end chain swiveled trap. An end chain swivel would require a sumersalting action by the animal to do a complete 360 degree turn.
Steve, you often state that when someone is talking about trapping, you can tell if they are the real deal or not as long as the of what they say matches your experiences and such.....I am NOT saying you are NOT the real deal....I believe what you say BUT.....
.......These topics will continue to be argumentitive and worthy of discussion with many of us, as your experiences with a certain trap with a certain type of chain and now your view on swivels is somewhat contrary to not only GENERAL opinion, but specific opinion of several experienced trappers on this forum.
I look at modifications as an improvement of a tool to combine increased holding power with animal comfort.
I dont look at it as a craze or keeping up with the Jone's.....
Sure, plenty of animals got caught and held before mods, just like they did in traps with teeth.
Zags
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2005 8:47:13 GMT -6
was going to copy paste the part where you said you agreed with BobW and western trappers who say a swivel at the trap is wasted....but alas...it has been sent to the cyber circular file.
if you read the posts, you will see why.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2005 8:53:48 GMT -6
general opinion- LOL- if one jumps off the bridge, everyone jumps off the bridge?
Is that the same general opinion that tells me you can't catch coyotes in 1.75 without them blowing all to hell and that coon don't travel on snow or coon can't be trapped in entanglement situations...general opinion...ok
please- tell me how many animals I lost last year because I have a long j hook at some traps rather than a swivel.
(j hook, 3 links, swivel, 3 links, end swivel)
don't all answer at once- I'll tell you- zero!
|
|
|
Post by Edge on Mar 16, 2005 8:55:15 GMT -6
I read them,but only heard from Bob,no other western trappers posted,thusly I expected the edit to reflect that.
Not only do I read them;I comprehend too.
Edge
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Mar 16, 2005 9:04:57 GMT -6
A J-hook at the trap IS a swivel, just not as good as a two-way, in my opinion.
As usual, if you disagree, the post gets defensive and dies......
No problem, we all will continue to use what works for us.....
BTW, I DID mention SPECIFIC opinion as well, refering to some of us on here.......but what do we know?
Zags
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Mar 16, 2005 9:11:45 GMT -6
Defensive? Let die? debate it all you want- if I don't debate an issue dies?
So I can be ... put on the defensive, but I can't repsond?
I simply said that I do it one way- apparently everyone else does it another. Fine by me.
ever notice how Im always wrong in my equipment and methods- when all I am stating is what works for me?
as I say over and over- this is what works for me.
and if a j hook IS a swivel (thank God you said it, or i'd be lambasted again ;D) than YES, I use a swivel on every trap at the base.
|
|