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Post by T-Bar on Sept 21, 2004 12:56:21 GMT -6
Hey guys!
I want to hear what you have to say about this.
What do you use for antifreeze/waterproofing dirt?
More importantly why do you use what you do(pros/cons)?
What are your best methods (ie- at the set, before hand)?
Thanks!!
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Post by mattjones298 on Sept 21, 2004 14:00:56 GMT -6
i run calcium cloride or plain table salt layered with dry peat moss. the cloride can stand about 5 more degrees then plain salt. then a sifting of dry dirt or semi- dry dirt over the top. if i use the dirt i dig at the set (semi-dry) dirt a light coat of cloride is added to the top of that...or a fine spray mist of propalean glycol.
in zero weather or there abouts i run straight dry peat and no top coat in a trench type step down
early season with just light frosts i run peat with a top coat of dirt dug at the set and a mist of propalean glycol.
matt
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Post by mattjones298 on Sept 21, 2004 14:55:32 GMT -6
i would like to here some more talk on urea as an anti freeze if any one has ran that as i have never tried it.
i`m wondering if it is as corosive as the others
matt
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 21, 2004 15:40:11 GMT -6
Matt forget the urea, I have had many years dealing with the stuff both as a fertilizer and as a ice melting agent. First it is a corrosive, not as bad as calcium chloride, gave up on that years ago! The thing is 20 degrees minimum unless you use quite a bit, then if you have deer or cattle good luck, as urea in a prilled form is a cattle feeding additive. They love the stuff and can smell it out! It has an odor when it gets wet and if you have freeze thaw conditions it's pretty much shot, as it works to help thaw things out, but after that inital warm up it's properties are done! The highest amount in a dry formulation is 46-0-0, thats what I have used in the past it is very water soluable, and thats why once wet it quits working. I use either proplyene glycol or waxed dirt or very dry dirt if conditions warrant. When the snow flys heavy I'm on to more snares less traps, alot less maintance and easy pickings when the coyotes show you exactly where he's been, and going to. Oh! forgot to add this last year I'm in coal shale country that is the stuff to be using if you can get it, I also know some who wax the shale and say it's bullet proof then! I will try that next summer, it sheds water better than any ohter natural product, will see how it does in the winter, but in the summer it is some good stuff with rain!
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Post by Cliffy on Sept 21, 2004 16:55:33 GMT -6
Tried urea one season, really kept the sets from freezin up but only caught on female yote by a hind foot. When the snow started to fly I saw lots of refusals.
Pulled sets and gave a good sniff of the dirt. It literally burnt my nose with the strong amonia smell. Put clean sets in within 10 feet of old (without urea) and started catchin k-9s again.
Not a total loss, stuff really gets the ice off the drive way and sidewalks at the house ;D
Tried waxed dirt with good results but time and money got in the way this year so I'll be tryin dry dirt and calcium cloride with no back up plan, hope it works.
Think I'll get a little dry peat moss to add to the mix.
Anyone know a good place to get it ?
Cliffy
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Post by T-Bar on Sept 21, 2004 21:00:32 GMT -6
Is it safe to say that using calcium chloride along with propylene glycol is a good way to go?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2004 6:21:30 GMT -6
matt- I've had several trappers in my area and elsewhere, tell me they have tried urea and they had nothing by trouble with dug up and avoided traps.
I believe Z is a proponant of using urea and does well with it, but I don't know how much he actually uses it or how many coyotes hes taken with it.
In my area, dry dirt and glycol spray does the job- cause once it gets COLD here, its cold and just dry dirt is enough.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 22, 2004 6:23:45 GMT -6
T-Bar- I really can't see any benefit in using both- they both offer about the same protection.
Cholride is powder and glycol a liquid....thats the choice.
Chloride does rust things MUCH quicker....
On glycol- mix it 50/50 or 60/40 (glycol/water) and mist the bottom of the trap bed, the underside of the trap, bed the trap- then spray trap again. Add you dirt- sift and pack a level, spray a fine mist, repeat until trpa is bedded....then, give whole set an overspray so that the different color of the gylcol sprayed dirt isn't just over the trap.....trappnman
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Post by snaptrap on Sept 22, 2004 20:43:53 GMT -6
I tried that urea one year and had lots of dug traps. I wasn't sure if my traps were contaminated or just what was going on until I smelled the dirt. Like was said before, the amonia smell literally made you gasp for air. I don't know why it triggered the coyotes to dig but they sure did.
I first read about using urea in a Fur-Fish andGame a few years ago. That fellow sure liked it. If I remember the article, I believe the temp stayed below the thawing mark.
snaptrap
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Post by Sage Dog on Sept 22, 2004 21:28:25 GMT -6
Using a 50/50 or 60/40 mix of glycol and water is a common practice. In the October TP&C, Ray Petrunich talks about using glycol with no mention of adding water.
Anyone here have experience with using straight glycol?
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Post by Edge on Sept 23, 2004 5:32:57 GMT -6
**Anyone here have experience with using straight glycol? **
Yes,it works just fine out of a squirt bottle,as was mentioned in the article.With the exception of easier delivery (a sprayer)or just making the glycerin "go farther"I personally dont see voluntarily ading water to a set when the water is the root of the problem you are trying to solve.
Edge
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Post by z on Sept 23, 2004 7:03:35 GMT -6
"I believe the temps stayed below the thawing mark" Someones catching on......... Is it the silver bullet? Is wax dirt (considering time/$), buckwheat hulls, dry dirt, glycol, glycerine, c. chloride, coal shale, peat moss? Yadda yadda yaaaaaaaaaa......... It works, Knowing when and where to use it is the key. I don't Know an exact ratio but I would start at 1 cup per gallon and adjust accordingly. I know of one particular location that I double set in late December. I was going in to pull the traps New Years eve. There sat a double on coyotes. Traps had been in the ground 12 days. Urine was applied liberally right over the sets......... ! On Stefs website you can see a peg-leg gyp coyote and a red covered in snow taken in traps bedded in urea. Carry On! z
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Post by trappnman on Sept 23, 2004 7:13:29 GMT -6
In non thawing conditions- I don't use antifreeze.
Why would you?
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2004 9:03:21 GMT -6
we use the 46-0-0 urea as a top dress fertilizer on our trees. No rain and it just sits. If it rains it goes into the ground. No rain and hi humidity as is common here in the east and it volatizes into nitrogen and escapes into the air, so we never spread it without a real good chance of immediate hard rain. The volatization problem is why farmers knife in liquid ammonia as otherwise it volatizes instantly and is lost into the air. For the above reasons I would never attempt to use it or urea. If covered with snow it would definitly keep your sets thawed as it would not be exposed to air, but then again, 4-5" of snow will insulate even wet dirt from freezing rock hard wirth just a dash of table salt. I use a top dress of plain old table salt down to mid 20`s, then layer it down to the high teens. Any lower and I go bone dry peat with a top dress of dry dirt. If that then gets wet and freezes I just flip off the thin potato chip of frozen dirt on top of the still dry peat and re-apply a very thin top dress of dry dirt again. This system is about as fail proof as I know of. Of course the best deal is trap the arid southwest where there is no humidity, no soil moisture , so no matter how cold it gets nothing can freeze. But then again , folks in hell want cold water too, so we poor eastern trappers come up with outragious schemes to beat the weather, that work most of the time with a lot more work on our part. Beats watching tv tho. All this will be shown in great detail in the fox video we will start filming soon, if you just have to see it instead of hear it.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 23, 2004 16:05:42 GMT -6
Thats what urea is a nitrogen synthetic fertilizer, based on amonia! Like I said the highest dry form is 46-0-0, and you get that smell once it mixes with mositure! Very water soluable, and makes lawns nice and green if you put it on at 2.2 lbs per 1,000 sq ft you end up with a full lb of active N and will make you mow 2 times a week spring and fall! Deer will spring many traps covered in it! Open up a spray tank when it's 85+ and the smell will knock you off the truck! you have to be careful with it it does get "hot" in the summer you just back down the amount and your fine. I was also in the snow removal business and where I lived when it gets real cold 10 degrees to -20 or better it won't melt off a thing! Bob soil drenching your trees spring/fall I would go with peters blue fertilizer in a 26-8-3 mixes great with water and way less chance of root tip burning, I did alot of deep root tree feeding and would never use the 46-0-0 in liquid as it was way to fast of a release. The peters brand is excellent for all trees and you can get it with chealated iron as well will really green up those x-mas trees nicely! I would leave the 46-0-0 for other things than trapline anti freeze. I went threw 17 tons a year of the stuff, in the lawn care business. Glad I'm done and moved on ;D
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 23, 2004 16:56:35 GMT -6
the 46-0-0 I use comes in 50 lb. bags of granules dry. I suppose I can find that peters at the local elevator?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 23, 2004 20:37:09 GMT -6
you should be able to find it there Bob, keep it off your skin or you will look like a blue smurf for a few days ;D. It has no coloring effect on anything else as the sun breaks down the dye in it. Best tree fert I have ever used.
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Post by vttrapper on Sept 24, 2004 3:52:03 GMT -6
Wax Dirt is best for me. It is expensive, but the time is really very little since I make it in thte greenhouse. It will withstand rain freeze/thaw conditions and jsut about any trapline delema, short of huge rains. It does not rot your traps, does not leach out after rains, it just works great.
frank
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Post by z on Sept 24, 2004 5:07:33 GMT -6
I'm with you Frank, Thats why this year I went "primarily" to wax dirt....... Steve, When the ground freezes up hard I try and keep the bed of my WIDE OPEN FLATSETS packed tight as I can get em'. At these wide open flatsets I expect a shuffling of the feet. I want that bed sturdy....... "Solid as the rock o' gibralter" ;D......... When urea is added to dry dirt it will absorb moisture and become very packable yet still allow a #3 to "get on up". At this stage it gives off NO ODOR. It is only when moisture is added that the ammonia odor is given off. BTW, Doesn't urine have an ammonia odor? So as long as it stays below freezing........ Flatsets, Wide open, Non-sinking, below freezing temps, Very packable. I use my digging tool to tamp the trap in tight. And the only thing that moves is the PAN. These tight beds coupled with frozen ground, very subtle guides, and a staggered lure application (Much like I showed you at the convention) Gives me the 2-step/shuffle of the feet I desire. Remember I am using #3's, Jakes, etc. So the bed is quite lg. to begin with........ Some will say bedding of the trap is un-important, Well I have to sorta, kinda, disagree with that. At SOME type of sets bedding of the trap is VERY important. Specially when the feet are moving a bit....... It works, I have proven that to myself so say whatever you wish. #'s wise, Over the past 3 seasons I have used it Urea has accounted for some 40+ k9's. December and January K9's! Fisher, Cats, I don't know how many freakin' coon. In a pinch I would use it again in a heartbeat. I find it to be no rougher on steel then some acidic soils found here in the northeast. And a helluva lot "trap" friendlier then Calcium Chloride. Keep in mind I use Dry Dirt, I use a mixture of dry dirt and peat for the long humps, I use glycol/water, I use wax dirt, I got a little of everything tucked away........ And each has their place and time, I know of no bedding medium that fits all applications. The contrast between sod trapping and trapping acidic soils in the spruce is night and day differance. As a tip What does rotting foliage smell like? foliage that has been rotting under the conifers in the shade. Don't take my word for it, Next time your in the spruce if you happen to venture there, Rip up the mulch/foliage and stick your sniffer in the dirt. Yup, thats ammonia your smellin'....... z
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 24, 2004 5:08:04 GMT -6
"tree fert", I just like saying that , has a ring to it, "tree fert"
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