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Post by chub618 on May 31, 2004 11:25:49 GMT -6
does the angle of the dirthole have any bearing on the distance from the hole you place the trap at dirthole sets. ie. the shallower the angle the further back the animal can stand to see into the hole. or do you rely on guiding more for trap placement, and use a standard 45 degree angle on single hole sets?
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Post by 17kiss on May 31, 2004 11:52:03 GMT -6
Angle of hole definitely plays a big part on how far back. But there are so many variables on angle of hole , hole placement , etc. I use some that are practically straight back in under sod , others at about 30 , very few actually at 45. Guiding is usually incorporated by the way the set is made. Sometimes a thumb size stick is used as a dog guard , if having misses than use more guides.
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Post by dj88ryr on May 31, 2004 12:38:59 GMT -6
I use mostly steeper angled holes so my trap is closer to the actual hole, most of the holes I drill are say 60 degrees, so the pan on the trap is usually within 3 inches or so of the hole and offset about 2" Just remember chub, the steeper the angle, the closer to the hole you should be, I believe steep angles cut down on the area a canine may stand to look down the hole.
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Post by 717 Yards on May 31, 2004 19:21:55 GMT -6
Try pokeing in 2 holes at different angles. Critter has to move his feet around more. You will still need some guiding though. "Matt"
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Post by thebeav2 on May 31, 2004 20:22:14 GMT -6
I have heard this time and time again. By making more then one hole the animal will move It's feet a bit to check out both holes.WHY?
Wouldn't the animal just turn It's head.
Not trying to be a wise ass here I just realy would like to hear some thoughts on this.
Beav
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Post by dj88ryr on May 31, 2004 20:49:53 GMT -6
Beav, if the holes are opposite each other at say 45 degrees, the critter does have to move his feet to look straight down the hole, for some reason it seems they like to be standing straight away from the hole, when doing it this way, I usually back my trap up a little bit more and not drill as steep a hole, to take advantage of " the dance " to see down the hole, that may not be real clear, but it worked to perfection last season using Steves #1 combo of Stef's lure, and a few combos that I came up with on my own.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2004 6:15:56 GMT -6
With lure placed at ground level- the feet pretty much have to be tight to the hole to stick his nose into it. And thats what he is going to want to do with a good lure.
so if you have a natural walkway between 2 lure holes- and your guiding is correct (whoa- now I'm out there!) the coyote can come in from either side- but the walkthrough effect is the same.
He sticks his nose into one hole- I don't care which one- and sooner or later, canines being what they are, will walk those few steps ito stick his nose down the next hole.
A few thoughts on lure. It seems to be the mistaken belief by some that since a canine can SMELL 1 or 2 drops of lure, that 1 or 2 drops of lure is the desired amount ot use. It may be in certian applications.
But in my opinion, it is not. I don't use lure to get a coyote over to a trap- hell, I can use a visual and get him to come farther and more consistently.
No- I use a lure for 1 reason only- TO GET THE COYOTE TO WORK THE SET. So a good lure application doesn't just tickle the nose- it MAKES the coyote react. A good lure is based on complusion. It makes the coyote take that additional step.
I'm not one that worries about dolling out a drip here, a drop there. I'm running a serious line with coyotes in mind on a freakling 24 hour check- I don't want ot relure after every sprinkle or sunny day- I want the lure to last at least a week to 10 days if no catch was made.
Think of it this way- within reason- 10 drops of lure or 30 drops of lure is going to smell the same for that day, maybe a day or 2 after- but then the lesser applicated set will start to have diminshed lure smells long before the more heavily lured set.
And that nonsense about- too heavy a lure, set needs to air out. Come on now- think about it a little.
If a set needs to "settle"- 9 times out of 10 it needs to blend in a little more. After weather softens and blends it, then catches are made. Ah-ha say the "too much lure" boys- the set aired out.
Jim- you said you found a heavier application of lure on a cotton ball gave you more results?
Me too.
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Post by dj88ryr on Jun 1, 2004 6:55:56 GMT -6
I have never skimped on lure, I use a big dollop on the cotton ball, I even stretch the cotton ball out a little and make a kind of cup in it, I fill that with lure. Lure is cheap comparatively speaking, and I know where I can get more ;D
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Post by Zagman on Jun 1, 2004 7:01:44 GMT -6
Beav....along so same lines, regarding the angle of the hole....I dont think a canine determines the angle of the hole from 10 ft out....he walks in and and sticks his nose in the hole, even if it is straight down. Then, as he works the set, perhaps he adjusts accordingly.
To me, the depth of the hole is much more important for foot movement and placement. If he has to work for the goodies, he will being doing a jig with his feet to get the groceries and you will hopefully have him by then...
In an ideal world, I would get him everytime on the first approach and then you dont worry about all the digging, laying down, possible rolling, etc. Thus, guiding, again, to me is more important than hole angle......
If you ever get a chance, watch the Matt Jones video on Eastern Coyote trapping. He has video footage of a pet coyote working a set.....he is digging, laying down, sticking his nose DEEP DEEP in the hole....it is pretty cool but also shows all the different places his feet are while working a set....
I dunno....just thinking out loud and rambling.....
Zags
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Post by a1foxhopper on Jun 1, 2004 7:03:46 GMT -6
Not to get too far off subject but I believe you can over lure a hole.....Just my experience and I am more than likely wrong.
But than again maybe I have yet to use a good lure. ;D
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2004 7:36:47 GMT -6
Fair enough- Why do you think so?
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Post by a1foxhopper on Jun 1, 2004 8:50:37 GMT -6
Why did I know you were going to call me out on this ;D
Err... I guess just that it seems that when I get a fox that seems to be circling and not working a set I will pick him up in a new set close by with a "tease of lure" or just urine down the hole.
I know you are going to whip me with a wet noodle and tell me that there are many variables and reasons other than overpowering lure smell coming from that hole, but dog gone it, thats my belief and I'm stickin' too it.........I think? ;D
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Post by coydog on Jun 1, 2004 10:31:51 GMT -6
Im not too stingy with lure, but I do agree there are "certain" fox or coyotes that might be more prone to work a subtle scented set. Why?
Difference in personalitys,
sissy fox or coyote / no aggression
got bell rung last time he/she stuck there nose in a hole/ got pinched.ETc................
All in all, big gob of lure/bait(depending on potency and weather) at most sets unless directed to do otherwise from a spook.
Distance from the hole to the trap, depends on how you anticipate the approach.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2004 10:56:37 GMT -6
Good answers! I do think that there are coyotes (and fox) that are, for reasons CoyDog mentioned- somewhat shy.
I mess with them a little- but I know I'm only taking the top off the population- might as well be those juveniles- then the spooked one.
In special circumstances- control work mainly or personal satisfaction- you need to resort to different methods and thoughts.
But, as I always say- I'm goin' after Joe Coyote on his way to work-
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Post by Maineman on Jun 1, 2004 11:00:03 GMT -6
does the angle of the dirthole have any bearing on the distance from the hole you place the trap at dirthole sets NO, my dirthole and traps are pretty much a constant thing with my trap placed within 1/2 inch of the lip..."THATS" where his foot is going to be when he's looking down a hole, so thats where my trap goes...(That sounded stupid, but it's true) lol Dave Z |
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Post by dj88ryr on Jun 1, 2004 11:28:04 GMT -6
Ahhh, the first time I have a difference of opinion with you Dave ;D I think the steeper the angle the closer the trap needs to be, less angle further away, but as always, thats the way I do it, and you need to do what works for you ;D
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2004 11:32:50 GMT -6
Dave- generally, what angle do you make your lure holes, and what size in diameter? How big are the patterns?
I know JC is a firm believer in putting a trap tight to hole.
In experimenting with stepdowns, in a large pattern stepdown, I do put the trap tight occasionally for S & G- and like it. But in small patterns with yotes- tight is too tight I have found.
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Post by Zagman on Jun 1, 2004 13:21:01 GMT -6
Anytime I have a one-track-on-the-pattern-and-gone miss at a set, the track is either behind the trap, to one of the sides, or right on a jaw/lever....never between the trap and the hole......
As Z would say.......hmmmmmmmmmm
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Post by Maineman on Jun 1, 2004 15:17:20 GMT -6
Ok, I should have stated my set a little better...I have fox (10 pound) only down here so I'm dealing with those little legs compaired to those long-(bow)-legged (50 pound) coyotes...lol... My holes are generally at a 45-degree (or steeper) angle, 2 inches in diameter, and 10 inches deep (key because IMHO, a shallow hole will open the door to problems)...
I generally leave approximately 1/2 but no more than an inch of lip between my hole and trap bed...My bed is cut small to fit a 1.5 coil with ears cut out to accept the levers which keeps my overall set small and the ground around the trap firm...I do perfer a flat-bottom rock over a (second choice) tuff of replanted grass as backing...No arguments here... I just dance with what works for me...
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Post by trappnman on Jun 1, 2004 15:24:34 GMT -6
Dave- I have no doubt it works for you- just curious as to the whys and wherefores.
how big a pattern do you make?
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