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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 22, 2004 19:32:10 GMT -6
Steve posted about this on another thread but I think it deserves it's own.
I have witnessed my dog rolling almost instantly on some odors. When I make rebar holes with certain things in them, my dog with take a split second whiff and drop his shoulder almost instantly.
Another example. My dog loves to roll in the shower. I think he is rolling on the synthetic musks in the shampoos and soaps. The odor is strong enough that he doen't have to drop his nose...he just instantly rolls.
Something else interesting. I have witnessed my dog sniffing certain lures, and then move a few feet from the lure hole and then roll. Almost like the odor itself provoked a rolling repsonse without the dog actually wanting to roll in the odor??
So yea, I think canines can start to roll before they get their nose within inches of an odor.
Paul Dobbins talked about this in a old archived thread on Trapperman but that thread is now long gone...
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Post by tim125 on Jul 22, 2004 19:44:51 GMT -6
rolling duke- canines roll as a coverup scent for them selves another trick the indians learned but is long forgotten- fresh skun buffalo robe
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Post by trappnman on Jul 22, 2004 19:47:14 GMT -6
Let me ask another question- it should be obvious if a trap was snapped by rolling- and yes, I have had it happen, but rarely.
And unfortunately, I've checked a lot of traps with footprints all over them due to frosen conditions, and can honestly say I see little sign of rolling.
So- is it a real concern when using commercial lures? I've used a lot of lures- and without naming brands- a lot of popular ones including 2 very popular lines from PA- and never had a "problem".
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 22, 2004 19:56:42 GMT -6
I havn't had much problems with rolling either....but I'm sure it happens on occasion.
Just becase it isn't a problem doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand the behavior? Hey, it's the off season. We need to save the hardcore, righ roller, cash flow, high production trapline diiscussions for November!!! ;D ;D
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Post by woody on Jul 22, 2004 20:39:56 GMT -6
Rollin to the 50's Duke, I haven't noticed my dogs rolling where theres lure in holes in the yard, they want to dig ;D the spot up. I seen on a video once, that if you have a roller, it said to try a rub set and use tincured beaver caster on the rub post at shoulder hieght and set the trap accordingly. ;D just a thought ;D woody
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Post by trappnman on Jul 22, 2004 21:00:46 GMT -6
Far be it for me to discourage creative discussion....mea culpa...  How about this for a theroy...modern lures have properties that OVERRIDE or neutralize that rollng instinct.... My number 1 response is digigng....by far. |
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 23, 2004 0:52:42 GMT -6
Some lures make them roll, some make them piss, and some they want to eat.
I don't want them rolling and they sure do. Ever have a trap snapped with a hair or two?
I had one friend catch a cat by the side once.
I've caught coyotes and cats so high that all I can figure is they started to roll and rolled right into the trap. That's the only explanation I have for catching them almost to the elbow.
Rotten stuff makes them roll.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Jul 23, 2004 3:15:30 GMT -6
"Rotten stuff makes them roll."
yep!
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Post by tim125 on Jul 23, 2004 4:48:01 GMT -6
i think the #1 response is sniffing
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Post by BK on Jul 23, 2004 8:11:24 GMT -6
Some say too much beaver castor in your bait will make them roll, I know it will make cats want to rub.
If fox happen to get my bait out of the hole,..........they like to roll on it more often than not. They seem to always want to piss before they leave after rolling.
I can't say I have had a coyote give trouble rolling.
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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 23, 2004 8:33:09 GMT -6
GUSTO makes coyotes roll and shoulder rub at the set.
But in most cases it's a digging re action.
I use a lot of scraped out castors down my dirt holes. In most cases if you don't catch the animal at the set you will find the castor laying some where close by. It's hard to tell If they rolled In It but they did carry It away.
Beav
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 23, 2004 18:23:56 GMT -6
It is not just" rotten stuff" that makes a canine roll, the musk and other ol factory inticers in certain lures, make the brain of a canine want to roll on that odor. Just because you get a rolling or cheek rubbing response doesn't mean it is a bad lure, it means it must be used in a different manner ie: not in a dirt hole!!. Sometimes on problem coyotes these lures are just the ticket for a digger, used in a different manner and different set type. Certain musk will cause rolling and chin rubbing, beaver castor being one, all critters love to chin rub castor, it is a just a reaction to that odor, I doubt will ever know why, because the critters can't talk, but put some castor by a cat he will chin rub the bottle and salivate quite a bit, again nothing is a 100% but the majority have this same response. If you want a good cat lure start with catnip,beaver castor, mink and rat glands and add skunk for late winter use, but it in a heavy base I like paste lures and baits, use lanolin works excellent.  |
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Post by trappnman on Jul 23, 2004 19:35:02 GMT -6
Boy- I just don't agree- by that I mean...I just cannot see where rolling is a problem- it happens so seldom for me, that its just a fluke when it does happen.
I know that a canine will roll before actually "touching" an odor- but in commercial liures, I think that factor is migated.
I can't remember the last time I had a coyote roll- or at least, I can't remember te last time i saw where a coyote had rolled.
Now fox- maybe they roll more?
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Post by tim125 on Jul 23, 2004 20:14:59 GMT -6
cant honestly say i have experiance this on fox- but can not say it does not happen - even after all the years of studing foxes reactions in pens i have never seen 1 roll on anything i put in but have seen them climb the links up to 10 feet to get to a certain bait -
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 23, 2004 20:34:18 GMT -6
not to say it never happens, but I rarely see where coyote or red fox roll on my pee`d and baited sets. Back when we had lots of grey fox here locally in indiana, I did notice they rolled the dickens out of anything with caster in it. Only way I knew around it was sweet non gland type drug store type lures on the greys, grape essence, honey, cherry , that type thing. Since they were never hi priced relative to coyotes or fox skins , or alive, I just didn`t worry about it and took what greys goofed up and stepped right before rolling. If I was in good grey country and targeting them tho, I would eliminate all gland type lures or rotton stinky stuff and go strictly with pee and the sweet stuff.
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Post by tim125 on Jul 23, 2004 20:38:32 GMT -6
great post bob - down loaded that 1 in my mind
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Post by mattjones298 on Jul 23, 2004 21:41:41 GMT -6
coyotes roll alot more then red or grey fox for me. i think it happens more then alot of guys think. coyotes dont leave tracks when they roll but they do leave hair.
i guess some on here dont know what coyote neck and sholder hair look like or dont trap early fall weather.
as coyotes dig out bait (to) roll in it alot.
i like baits and lures that bring on that response myself, they work the set untill they get it out or are caught.
matt
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Post by trappnman on Jul 23, 2004 21:44:39 GMT -6
ah but matt...the secret is to catch them BEFORE they did out the bait and roll..... Did you find any rolling at stepdowns? |
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Post by mattjones298 on Jul 23, 2004 21:46:43 GMT -6
thats the set i use with that kind of bait steve, a step down
matt
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 23, 2004 21:56:53 GMT -6
For you guys getting rubbing and rollng with castor...did you think the canine rolled before they tried to dig it out?
I always assumed castor would provoke the canine to dig it out and then react to it.
Some odors they will roll before even trying to get in contact with it....but I didn't think castor was one.
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