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Post by BrandonH on Jul 19, 2004 20:00:36 GMT -6
Joel brought this up on another post that some outstanding coyote trappers have trouble changing their mindsets from coyote to cat. All the cats I have caught have been in your basic dirthole. No flags, no squeekers, no shingles. That being said, i feel I have missed cats because they simply avoided my sets. Key me in on some specific cat sets, you expert cat men...
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Post by Edge on Jul 19, 2004 20:17:58 GMT -6
Way not a cat expert,but I wondered about the cat tracks and no cat too. When i trap them in the winter,if I am at a bait station,I will have them within a couple days,if I am on a remote location,I have to wait for their return;thats why when I am NOT at the bait,I use flagging..I feel it encourages them to stick around long enough. The only non dirthole set I use effectively on cats is when I put a #3 as a blind set at the bottom of a pole set for fisher........that way when they plod around at the base of the pole,doing that looky loo thing,I have something to skin. As far as the pole set for cats,absolutely horrid results for me.........
Edge
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 19, 2004 22:16:55 GMT -6
Well I'll get the list started.
Things to forget when traping cats:
subtle guiding...use big offensive guides if you can force them to only have one place to step you got em
location...look for the hiddy holes where food hides and cats hunt
forget about blending ...Joel will tell you about above ground traps
subtle visuals...don't wast your time, hang a bone,wing or the like anything that will bring movement about the trap
NEXT Joel? Stinky Lynxy?
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 19, 2004 22:46:01 GMT -6
HEAVY guiding...not just around the trap...but brush/block a distance away from the trap...give em an opening to go thru...with a heavily guided traps in the center... I prefer two traps...NOT one..if possible offset them to break the cats stride from a straight walkthru to a bit off center...MAKE them step where you want..sometimes I'll have one trap..guiding..a flat rock or spot to step THEN the second trap..both on separate drags...doubles are NOT uncommon using this method.....visual...visual..visual...forget all the "sure fire" lures...put the trap where the cat travels...he's yours...I dont profess to being the best cat trapper in the world..but my take this last year was one of the best in the state...I do lure,dont get me wrong..it can NOT hurt..but if given the proper location for a blind walk thru set...DEATH...nothing but for cats...My stepping sticks are the size of your forearm...AND doubled up on each side...do NOT give them enough to step over the trap..just on!!!
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 19, 2004 22:52:47 GMT -6
Hey Stinky if you let them little ones go they'll grow up ;D you want to be known as kitty trapper or what? and I like the bushy tailed one on the snow
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 19, 2004 22:59:05 GMT -6
Hey there "duck breath"...take a minute to "smell the flowers"...
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 19, 2004 23:02:01 GMT -6
Some days ya take what ya can get...when you're trapping in crap like this...every "little" bit helps...this pic was about 45 mi from our camp...snow level was at 155% of normal...no man's land...even in the summer!! later lynx
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2004 0:21:04 GMT -6
Nice pics Lynx,
You said it right on cats.
Just consider their personalities. Coyotes are charging around checking things out. Traveling at a trot or a lope half the time. Covering the miles. Flushing their prey and chasing it down. Interacting with other coyotes. Howling and making noise.
What's the cat doing? Sneaking around. Creeping rather than loping. Concentrating his efforts in a small area. Sitting for hours waiting to see an eyeball or a flick of an ear. Avoiding others of it's kind for the most part. Quiet and stealthy.
When a coyote buys into your dirt hole oftentimes he's making a lot of tracks. Not so the cat. Oftentimes you get one track.
The beauty of it is you can put a neon sign up saying put foot here and he will.
If you want more than one track you might need more than one item of interest. Hence the lure in different locations and dimensions as well as visuals and audios.
The best cat men I know are very good at blind setting, they only need one track.
Oh well I'm rambling on.
Joel
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 20, 2004 1:12:38 GMT -6
Back at cha Stinky Joel, I do enjoy your ramblings
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 20, 2004 5:21:18 GMT -6
this is a great thread. I don`t know what I could add other than just to re-iterate, set on a track and most everything else won`t matter, with in reason.
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Post by mac on Jul 20, 2004 5:43:08 GMT -6
Great pictures and great information! Thanks guys, Mac
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Post by Maineman on Jul 20, 2004 5:49:19 GMT -6
I'm not a cat trapper...(at least not the kind in the pictures above) but this is some great information...I wonder "WHY" you can crowd a cat so much with guides...
A better question would be "If crowding doesn't spook a cat"...What does?
Thanks for the info and pic's
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Post by jsevering on Jul 20, 2004 6:12:45 GMT -6
Was wondering the color ranges a cat can make out.
Do you feel your better off set up directly within the heavey cover of the cats territory or on the edges and breaking points between edges and strips.
How important is it to go directly to the cats core range vrs. waiting them out on the fringe of adjoining areas, if you have the time to wait.
Thanks for any answers and a enjoyable thread with some great pictures already....jim
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Post by 17kiss on Jul 20, 2004 8:47:29 GMT -6
More , more! Cant get enough of them cats.
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Post by a1foxhopper on Jul 20, 2004 9:36:59 GMT -6
Wacky, dig out some of your pics on cat location. I'm sure a lot of the guys would like to see them.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 20, 2004 9:47:37 GMT -6
jim, I read somewhere that cats can not see red, or most colors, but can see green slightly. My experience is contrast and movement in a flag- like a black feather on snow, or white fur on dark ceder thicket background- and open to breeze(movement) gives the best results. I have seen in the snow where a cat would sit on its butt so long staring at a packrat house that the snow would melt where he sat, at subzero temps. I have had the opportunity of actually watching a cat sitting and staring at a packrat house for at least an hour . I saw this when out of the corner of my eye I spyed a cat sitting in berm of a well traveled paved highway in broad daylight staring and sitting watching a packrat house. He was oblivious to passing traffic or me pulling over. After an hour I couldn`t stand it anymore and shot him. He never did move and it was obvious he was staring a hole thru that packrat house waiting for the least scurry or movement. He was about 6-8 feet from the nest. On other (many) occasions I have tracked a cat to maybe 10 packrat houses in a thicket where it took him probably 10 hrs to move only 100 yards, sitting till the snow melted at each nest. Then he lights out over miles to the next rockpile or thicket. I think the coyote set caught cats are those between rockpiles or thickets. Everybody gets a few free ones that way every year. I like them as much as the next guy but you will never have 40 hanging in the shed if only looking for coyote set luck outs.
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 20, 2004 10:04:29 GMT -6
Bob brought out a point that I do not believe can be over stressed and that is movement. Visuals, now we are talking cat, are about as good as they move and I don't mean in a 10 mile per hour breeze...more like on slight thermals and the like...you know at dawn when the mornig sun starts those updrafts or dusk when the reverse occurs...the kinda breeze that just moves leaves.
In NM I cannot use visuals of feathers and flesh within 25 feet of my trap sooo I either hang a bleached rib bone via a wire loop through a wire loop right over / behind the trap or hang a feather (two tied together to form a "V" flutter about the best) off to the side and allow the tear-up at the set and lure take care of things from there. You just need to think cats stalking, using available cover when you select a trap location or I should say location of your trapS...cat trappin is not the time to be shy or stingy with the number of sets...cover the good spots. (Works good for Greys too)
Also, often at the set a bit of street legal "flagging" can help...a bit of teased out cotton held in the backing to fluff around a bit ...tease the silly critters in and guide their feet to the pan.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2004 10:07:36 GMT -6
Maineman,
I've often pondered why a cat and coyote are different on crowding.
A lot of people think cats are stupid. I tend to think that the reason they can be crowded is due to a couple of things.
1-Their very nature that causes them to crawl through things, over things, under things, go into caves etc. etc. makes them susceptible to stepping sticks, walkthrough sets and such.
2-I think their lack of caution may be because their nature causes them to focus so intensely when stimulated.
I think that a cat gets something on his mind and he gives it his complete attention until he refocuses on something else.
Many of the methods that focus on walkthrough sets, blind sets, and snares are attempting to catch the cat as he is on his way to something else.
Lots and lots of cats have been caught in traditional canine sets where he has to turn in and investigate a hole or some such attraction.
With that said lots and lots of cats have been missed with this kind of canine mentality as well.
Why? Like I said the cat had something else he was focused on at the time. He wasn't cold nosed he just had something else in mind.
I think we'd be surprised at how many times we've missed a cat in a canine set and then had him come back and get caught after he'd taken care of some other business.
I believe their focus can be broken. Hence lures, flags, lights, sounds etc. Just not always.
I think a canines focus is very easily broken. They tend to react to the environment as it presents itself.
The cat tends to make the environment react to it.
I've thrown lures down and held bottles under my housecat 's nose to see how she would react. Most of the time she ignores me.
However I come back and catch her rubbing on it or making a toilet when she doesn't know I'm there.
I think she has her whole life to get around to reacting to the lure. She full well intends to check it out but when she decides to not when I want her to.
My dogs will accomodate me right now by pissing on it, eating it, rolling on it, etc.
There has been a lot of discussion about how easy cats are to catch and how smart coyotes are. How cold nosed cats are vs. coyotes etc.
I tend to think it is more related to the behaviors that allow them to occupy the same environmental niche just by using a different strategy.
Anyway just some thoughts on the differences in canine vs. feline mentality.
Joel
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Post by Maineman on Jul 20, 2004 10:16:11 GMT -6
Awesome post Joel thanks... Joel: "Their very nature that causes them to crawl through things, over things, under things, go into caves etc. etc. makes them susceptible to stepping sticks, walkthrough sets and such." This would explain some of the success had by trappers using cage-traps (Yes)?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2004 10:26:48 GMT -6
Absolutely,
This is interesting in itself. I watched a Demo by Reid Aiton on cage traps.
The biggest thing I took away from it was the part about brush blocking so the cat was forced out from the opening.
Reid maintains that if the cat sees the attractor from the front they will often charge it.
He said he's noticed that having a cat approach from the side and seeing the attractor from a right angle causes refusals.
I think a cat is often a linear being when focused. That is why you miss some in turn off the trail coyote sets.
Joel
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