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Post by SteveCraig on Jul 20, 2004 22:51:48 GMT -6
It was stated earlier by someone that most cats are snared while moving from one place to another. Or one set of hills to another. This may be true in most cases, but it is not the cats fault that this is happening. I have found it is because the trapper is snaring them , because that is where he is setting his snares. There are other ways a fellow can snare his cats right in their home ranges without much effort on your part. True, bobcats and lions have a one track mind, so to speak, and this can make them "look" difficult to trap or snare. Many misses are being had due to the trappers inability to force the cat to "focus" his attention on his sets., be it traps or snares. True, eye appeal is VERY important and must be used to the max, but do not neglect that cats nose, and his ears either, AND the cats feline nature to want to use his feet. Bobcats love to bat and swat at things that peak their attention. Use it to your advantage.Toilets were mentioned. It has come to my attention that for every pile of poop you find at a toilet location, there are a half dozen you will not see! Toms and sows have two totally different toilet areas in a given territory. Use that to your advantage. Joel mentioned that Reid has, through trial and error, found that he must set his cage traps with the brush a certain direction in order to successfully cause the cat to enter the cage. This is another feline trait that is very hard to overcome due to the cats one track mind, but it can be changed with just a little thought and enginuity on the trappers part. Bobcats sometimes get in a zone, so to speak, and can be very difficult to get them out of it. Case in point. I was calling with a client in northern Az. We were targeting bocats. I was calling out over what would generally be called a typical coyote location, but due to the time of year( cats are/can be in different areas at different times of the year) and the fact that the client wanted a big tom, I knew my best chances for a quality tom was this type country. You could see for a half mile in any direction. This big tom popped out of the little scrub wash and promply headed my way with that typical cat stealth approach the first 100 yards or so in about a 25 minute time span, when all of a sudden he snapped his head to his right walked over to a spot I could not see and sat down and just staired, just like Bob discribed. He finally layed down and I could not see what he was doing. He was a good 300 yards away and he just lay there! I threw everything in the book at him from my e-caller as well as a couple toots on some hand calls. Never looked my way! We sat there waiting for him to get up and he finally did after 2 hours! His hide is hanging on my clients wall today as he just got up and contined what he had started out doing and that was coming to the rabbit distress I was playing. He walked right up to the speaker. This has happened more than this time over the years and believe me Mt. Lions do the same thing. Getting them out of their zone can take some doing sometimes and sometimes you cant do it at all. I do love the cats. Mt. Lions are a real fasination for me these last 6 or 7 years now. Both them and bobcats can be very frustratng to trap and call, but you will learn alot if you keep and open mind and forget you are a coyote trapper.
FWIW
Steve
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 21, 2004 2:16:36 GMT -6
Lynx,
Your right about catching the toms after you've caught a female if you catch them fairly quick. I think they know when she's gone after a while and find another one.
Like you say for every toilet you find there are some you don't.
I was a little hasty when I said the toms don't get caught after taking the female. I've had it happen both ways. I was thinking of a particular place when I was posting before. Need to break my focus when writing I guess.
Anyway I stand corrected.
Joel
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 21, 2004 2:22:58 GMT -6
PS Tom Krause has a cat book that should be on the market pretty soon.
He sent me a copy. It has excellent information. Tom knows his cats and knows how to write.
Should be a classic.
Joel
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Post by coyote on Jul 21, 2004 4:35:18 GMT -6
no problem at ALL, Joel! I appreciate ALL replies!!! didn't mean to exclude anyone with my question! this IS an awesome thread! the toilet I thought I found a few years ago was about 3 feet in diameter (oval shaped) and on a point on a minor ridge. I could tell it was full of scat, but also had some vegetation mixed throughout it. foolishly, I did not poke around it to determine who made it  it smelled of scat and urine, but whose, I do not know. I know I can find it again if it's still there. [see, THIS is why my wife thinks I'm nuts...getting fired up about crap piles] |
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 21, 2004 7:38:31 GMT -6
Joel....you sound like a sucker...JUST LIKE ME!! New book out...gotta go there!!! LOL Just think...we're on the "down slide" to cat season right now!!! OH YEA!!!
later
lynx
When's that get together of yours going on???
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Post by trappnman on Jul 21, 2004 7:40:29 GMT -6
Just a note about scat- as Lynx said- don't let the white fool ya'!
Doing the dnr trapping, I really paid attention to sign. I absolutely amazed me how I could see scat that was fresh that moring- look like it was there 1000 years in a DAY or TWO...and this was usally in spring/fall weather conditions- not 100 degrees out.
So- one thing I learned- in normal condiotions, if scat still has a good form- its fairly fresh--- if its much over a week, 10 days...its gone.
Not important enough to start a thread on, but it did fit with lct remark.
This thread rivals "the mink thread" and a couple of the old coyote threads....very good reading.
Odd habit of the cat to zone out.
Tell me this- as observing dogs to coyotes...does the same apply to watching house cats?
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Post by Gibb on Jul 21, 2004 7:51:43 GMT -6
Question for you cat guys due bobcat cycle as high and low as Lynx do? Lynx cycle in a 10 year run from almost none to being everywhere.
Cheers Jim
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Post by Furhandler on Jul 21, 2004 8:08:35 GMT -6
Not in this province Jim. They are not AS dependant as Lynx to hare which you know has a cyclable pattern. In my area Bobs are very dependant on winter deer heards, and when the deer are down so are the cats. We've had very low deer #'s in the north over the last 20 years and so are the Bobs. In the south the heard is doing well, hence lots of cats.
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 21, 2004 8:54:30 GMT -6
Here it's more dependant on the rabbit populations...where I trapped this last winter...100's of thousands of rabbits...EVERYWHERE!!!!! I think it's just nature for them to cycle with their food source and weather conditions. Personally...never have noticed any change...more in the cycling of weekend trappers/relative to fur prices...lol
later
lynx
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 21, 2004 10:03:03 GMT -6
I've got some thoughts on rabbit cycles in the great basin and the intermountain West but I don't have time this morning. I'll get back later.
Lynx were having our rendevous this weekend in the mountains above Ely. Come on down we're having some great Demos. Dealers are coming. Eating Buffalo cooked underground. Horseshoes, rifles, trap setting etc.
I'll give you directions if you want. It's probably closer to you than it is to me.
Joel
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 21, 2004 18:41:36 GMT -6
What days and times??? It's gonna be tight....I've got numerous jobs going right now..some ADC stuff INSIDE several city limits...24hr ck at the MOST....I'd LOVE to make it...will have to see what's "cookin"...doesnt sound as good as the buff tho!!!!
later
lynx
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Post by Rob220swift on Jul 21, 2004 19:04:56 GMT -6
I've located a toilet, at least I'm almost positive it is. A railroad grade that has been abandoned for over 50 years runs along the edge of a big marsh. On one side, about a 1/2 mile across the cat tail marsh is a river. On the other side is a long beaver flooding surrounded by thick woods. The toilet is at the base of a spruce that's about 40 feet high and dead center in the RR grade. Under it was a lot of scat. Along the edge of the beaver flooding is the occasional remains of a beaver. Beaver hide, a few bones here and there. I think the RR grade is a perfect ambush point for cats and canines. How many sets would this spot justify?
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Post by lynxcat on Jul 21, 2004 19:11:43 GMT -6
How may traps ya got.... ;D Sounds like a sweet area...
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Post by SteveCraig on Jul 21, 2004 19:12:47 GMT -6
Rob,
As many as it takes to cover all places a bobcat will be coming and going to that area. Could be two sets plus snares, or could be 6 or more plus snares. Scouting will show you how many you need to cover the point of entry and point of exit.
Steve
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Post by Rob220swift on Jul 21, 2004 19:21:31 GMT -6
No cat snaring here in Mich, and we just got reduced to a two cat limit. I was thinking at least three or 4 #3 bridgers staked or on drags. It's real thick with aspen whips so the cats wouldn't go far. I kinda like the idea of the female letting loose and luring up the area for the toms that I'm sure will come thru.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 22, 2004 0:45:45 GMT -6
Re:Traps per location.
When I was longlining I used to try and get three good sets in a choice spot.
Doubles weren't common but they certainly happened. Sometimes I'd have a coyote, fox, or lion occupying one or two sets and the other would be working for the cats.
I used to set the traps out and cover them with big rocks before season so I could hit the ground running on opening day. The three set habit also helped me keep track of how many sets to check for at each place. There were a few years where I just hung the traps over a tree limb or on a rock and went back the next season. Knowing there were three traps there helped me find them all the next season.
I find that I set two sets per location now days as I'm considerably slower and it takes me a while to get very much country set up.
In this country it's pretty predictable which sets will produce for me anymore. I can probably catch as much with 50 sets now days as I did with 150 sets 25 years ago.
Anyway to sum up make a couple sets for doubles and especially to have a trap working should another predator get caught first.
Joel
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 22, 2004 0:56:27 GMT -6
Lynx,
I have a theory about rabbit cycles in our country.
I think the further North you go the more reliable the cycles are for rabbits.
The snowshoes in AK and Canada are very predictable at around 10 years or so.
I think as you move down where we are they are more like 7-18 year cycles.
I remember some big buildups in the late sixties and early seventies. Then again in the early eighties and now again in the early part of this century.
Just a thought could be way off base.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Jul 22, 2004 8:08:00 GMT -6
Joel- just pointing out hares aren't rabbits. As a lifelong beagle man and rabbit hunter- cottontails do not seem to cycle or if they do- it is very very minor and would be unnoticed by most people, including myself.
Cottontail numbers are directly proportional to available cover and nesting conditions.
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 22, 2004 8:30:52 GMT -6
Steve, just pointing out that Jack Rabbits aren't rabbits they're hares. ;D
I can't say that I 've noticed any regularity in cycles of either but their respective population do go through some helacious ups and downs.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 22, 2004 8:49:23 GMT -6
I knew that Wacky.... ;D
we have jacks and cottontails around here- snowshoes a little north.
To keep them straight... the terms people use around here are: cottontails are rabbits or bunnies; snowshores are snowshoes or hares; jackrabbits are always referred to as jackrabbits.
I understand your point that in areas with just 1 of the spieces- it is usually just called a "rabbit"
Reason I brought it up though- is the current midwest expansion is happening in the cottontail belt...we have always had cats in the snowshoe areas.
I used to hunt all 3 regular- the limits are (or used to be) 10 each per day- total of 30.
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