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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 28, 2004 21:58:22 GMT -6
i`ve trapped coyotes every winter for a long time now and used alot of hardware to catch them with. here are the thoughts i have as far as coyote loss goes counting back foot catches, traps on drags and short and mid-length chains pinned down...i`ve never ran a chain over 20 inches.
here are traps i have set in order and used enough to feel i can form an opinion on in all around weather and use.
victor 1.75 stock....20% coyote loss
victor 1.75 tricked out...10% coyote loss..with afew pan misses due to size
1.65 bridger....same as above
bmi 2 k-9 wolfer..early model...first year= 10% coyote loss...second season 15-18% coyote loss
bridger no.2 stock...same as 2 k-9 wolfer but better second season at 12 to 15%
bridger no.2 tricked out and 4 coiled...3 to 5 % coyote loss...mostly back foot loss
soft catch no.3 victor stock...15% coyote loss
soft catch no.3 victor with no.3 music wire... 5-8% coyote loss
victor no.3 softcatch tricked and 4 coiled..3 to 5% loss
bridger no.3 stock...5-8 % coyote loss
bridger no.3 tricked and 4coiled....rare..coyote loss
coyote cuff no.22 and 33...coyote loss rare
mb650...coyote loss rare
mj600...coyote loss rare
jake trap...coyote loss rare
these are traps i have used and how i see it with my methods of trap covering and weather conditions
matt
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 28, 2004 22:23:38 GMT -6
well i`m bored so i`ll talk to myself about what i think of some of these traps
victor 1.75, they have a weak 3/4 inch base that started the whole hoop la about base plates but it evolved into a center swivel craze in following years...the stamped jaws are to sharp, and hard on grey fox and coon without lamination
1.65 bridger, good base first season but bend after hard coyote trapping use with 4 coils but a good small trap. .jaw spread to small for most longline trappers, lamination helps and if lamination is on inside a great fox and coon trap.
victor softcatch no.3.....jaws are weak and the jaw ends must be bent up..when a trapper bends them up about every third one the jaws dont want to match back up well....pan sets way to high and the whole trap has a high profile....if 4 coiled or music wire springs are added the base is alittle weak after hard use but not to bad.
bmi 2 k-9 wolfer...it wanted to be a good trap...weak base after 2 seasons and the big problem was the spring pin was 2 small for the trap and bent with use...also the springs are hard to replace
victor 1.75 has a weak spring pin also as does the bridger 1.65 to some extent with hard use.
ok, i`m tired of typing
bridger no.2, well made trap but a weak pan and dog that coyotes bite and bend easy. springs get weak and need changing after the first season
bridger no.3 about like the no.2 but bigger...a good buy
coyote cuff 22 and 33 hard to lighten pan tention but can be done by bending the last 1/4 inch of the dog down about 5 degrees... not a live mkt trap..nice (skunk) offset...lets afew skunks get out...thats fine with me
mb650 old model pan gets wear and trap fires dirt in trappers eyes and face on afew traps...this has been corrected
mj600...oh ya
jake trap, heavy pan tention on 1/2 the trap pan, hard to get a coyote back out of as leavers set so high...alittle large for the east
matt
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Bayou
Demoman...
North Louisiana
Posts: 147
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Post by Bayou on Jun 28, 2004 22:26:48 GMT -6
Interesting post Matt,but you have the tricked vic#3softie & tricked#2 Bridger about the same loss rate , I kinda thought a tricked #2 Bridger would catch & hold more ,and a #3 softie tricked would be a tad softer on them& few more losses,Maybe Doc is right, Daryl
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Post by lynxcat on Jun 28, 2004 22:28:59 GMT -6
Mattheuw...I'm in agreance on much of your thinking...a LOT of people say the mod's are NOT necessary...well with a 10% loss and 40 $300 bobcats...that amounts to $1200 loss due to trap design..or lack of...I learned that fact 20+years ago... I however DO have another "concern"...on 37's post his traps looked good...both he and Bob W use "weak" springs for live catch...BUT the chain!!! It is physically NOT possible to be trapping for the live market with THAT setup with out incurring CONSIDERABLY more damage than on a short chain setup with the same trap...with that long of a setup...he gets hung up..looks like if he backs up he can get a 10-15 foot run at it!! Maybe the double laminations will keep the foot damage to a minimum...but make it up on the broken legs.. All I can say is catch em...and sell em QUICK!!! I am by NO means an expert on the live market or short vs long chain setups..BUT over the last 4 or 5 years I have been keeping notes and find CONSIDERABLE less damage on short chain setups as opposed to longer chains...on drag set ups...50/50...never know WHAT you're going to get....I DO know that on cats I end up with WAY more foot damage on drags then on solid staked setups. Last year I caught 39 lynxcats with 0% noticable foot injuries...ALL sets were solidly anchored...the year before I trapped a different area dictating more drags...I had 6 cats with extreme damage. Just my two cents....I'm not the worlds best trapper...nor do I catch EXTREME numbers...but I pride myself on catching respectable numbers on fox/coyote AND on lynxcats...last season I was in the top 3 in the state. (on cats)Not a bragging right..just a fact. If there's a reasonable explanation concerning the long chains with reference to the live market...I'm willing to listen. Best reguards lynx
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Bayou
Demoman...
North Louisiana
Posts: 147
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Post by Bayou on Jun 28, 2004 22:43:50 GMT -6
I kinda was thinkin the same thing Lynx, with least 3or4' after tangle that gives 6-8' or more lunge-with kinda weak springs & a grown coyote,It seem s foot will slip a little or alot,& slipping seem to cause more bad marks than a strong spring, just my 2 cents,
Daryl
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Post by 17kiss on Jun 28, 2004 22:44:32 GMT -6
like the Bridgers2s and 3s myself. Seemed like a lot of wasted pan on the MB650s (back half hard to fire) On coyotes had most loss out of the Bridger 1.65s. hard to swallow no loss , even O'Gorman admits losses ;D The Montanas do look good and the springs are good , no experience with them. The Victors and Dukes always seemed decent , at first. Change springs and back in action. Hard to beat a beefed up #3 Bridger for price , holding power, and pure kill area
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Bayou
Demoman...
North Louisiana
Posts: 147
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Post by Bayou on Jun 28, 2004 22:51:59 GMT -6
Matt, If your runing Bridger#2s & after fox,coyote,&coons(whatever steps first?) do you like reg. pan set up with tune or Paws r trippans?
Daryl
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Post by Stef on Jun 28, 2004 22:53:19 GMT -6
Most of the loss I had were some Old Montgomery square jaws #2 ( Jaws and yotes pulled out ), some Victor #2 SQ ( Jaws and yotes pulled out, frames bended ) and Victor #1.75 & #2 round jaws modified (coyotes pulled out). Never lost a single yote in my old Victor #3 SQ High lever or round jaws. That's my traps stories with them so far Stef
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 28, 2004 22:54:19 GMT -6
lynx, same with my cats on drags with any size trap but most trouble with cats caught up high on the forarm.
edge, these thoughts of mine are from memory, no written record so the % i`m sure are wrong, there just my own thoughts and how i presented them the best i could
matt
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 28, 2004 23:00:35 GMT -6
daryl, all my bridgers have pawsi trips and there nice but not necessary...i just made some money afew seasons ago and spent it on trapping before i spent it at the...oh well
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Post by lynxcat on Jun 28, 2004 23:05:18 GMT -6
My "better record keeping" is becoming a matter of habit...rather than me being efficient.. ;D I'm required to keep accurate records with my fish/game job...trap type..trap nights..misses,catches,type,sex...yada..yada...I just adapt it to my trapping and it goes smoothly... later; lynx
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Post by MChewk on Jun 28, 2004 23:06:52 GMT -6
Matt, what about dem long spring traps? No stats for them?
Used to trap with old worn out traps...weak springed poor chains, swivels were a joke and catch showed it.
Got a little smarter and learned a bit, spent some $ and had fewer problems. Catch got better, did some more learnin'. Spent some more $ on equipment and worked harder catch rose dramatically. Use only strong springed modified traps with multiple swivels and am still learning working hard... catch should get better. I like chain length 18-36 inches but traps better be strong. MB 650 and JAKE trap man on coyotes
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Post by lynxcat on Jun 28, 2004 23:11:31 GMT -6
I also like the positrip...the 2 1/2 lb versions....with the leverage issue (pan anchored at the front of the spring pin) the positrips are considerably more consistent on poundage let off than a stock trap with normal pan setup....NICE...but pricy...that's why I dont have many...lol later lynx
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 28, 2004 23:12:23 GMT -6
mike, other then the double long11`s i ran as a kid and some newhouse traps the family owned i`ve always been a coil spring guy as i`m only 40 years old. wayne derrick and a friend no one knows named jim black, both great longtime coyote men love them.
matt
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Post by RiverRat on Jun 28, 2004 23:17:46 GMT -6
Ok my ? is with a 24 hr check are all these modifications nessary? I dont have alot of yote experince. But if you got good strong springs or 4 coil for frost or frozen ground is it really nessary to laminate, baseplate, & center swievel for a 24 hr check?
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Post by lynxcat on Jun 28, 2004 23:29:23 GMT -6
Matt...I started out when the Pioneer low lever coils were the "hot thing". .used TONS of dls traps...the went to the victor #3's high levers when they came out...still partial..but am using a LOT more dls traps with the miles trigger/pan/wire mod's...makes them a VERY viable part of any line...takes the wobble out...allows you to get a set poundage w/ out the bend up/down crap....just a good working trap...and better holding leverage..hmmmmm later lynx
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Post by lynxcat on Jun 28, 2004 23:30:36 GMT -6
Riverrat...define "necessity"...lol...if from no other perspective than it makes the trapper feel better!! later lynx
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 29, 2004 0:11:34 GMT -6
daryl, if i 4 coil one i also laminate that trap...more so for animal comfort then anything. also, in my case i might catch a raccoon at any set location. some traps like the bridgers can go without a base plate just fine. but on traps like the victor 1.75 the base is needed to keep it from bending and letting the jaws pop out which is common with this trap. i dont know much about the duke traps but i looked at them and they are improving every year, also the sleepy creek traps have made some good jaw improvements it looks like, but i have never set ether trap.
a guy in coyote country here in the east trying to build up his coyote traps might look at the bridger no.2 stock and replace the springs the following season with no.2 music wire and catch the fire out of coyote and fox just fine on a 24 hour check.
matt
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Post by vttrapper on Jun 29, 2004 4:05:41 GMT -6
My best trap has been the #2 monty, full mods only because i have used them the longest of any trap. But, scince I have used the Bridger #3 with full mods it is becoming the trap i choose first when setting. It is rare to find one sprung and empty.
frank
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Post by coyoteman37 on Jun 29, 2004 7:08:48 GMT -6
I am being honest I use 10 ft of chain on the drag and 3 links of chain on the trap. If I have to I will use a 18 in cable stake. If nobody believes me they are welcome to come to sc durring sc in jan or feb and see first hand.
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