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Post by PAMINK on Jun 29, 2004 22:12:21 GMT -6
MChewk I run a pretty heavy pan tension. All the pan tension in the world won't compensate for those low levers. ;D Terry
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 30, 2004 0:04:40 GMT -6
17kiss, the 1.65 bridgers i bought were good little traps. i still run them for coon and fox. the springs where very strong in mine from factory.
about 2 years ago i was talking to rich kasper a neb. coon trapper and a good one about the bridger number 1.65`s and he said the springs on his where very weak from the factory.
we figured it was just a bad batch of springs that he got...it happens sometimes...maybie it happened to you.
even ordering music wire springs i have seen the same type springs be weaker or stronger then some i had ordered previously...
matt
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Post by Mallard on Jun 30, 2004 6:14:36 GMT -6
PAmink, I had the same problems with the SC 1.75 OS and think its a combination of not enough holding strength and a lack of a debris notch on the jaws, which kind of leads me to beleive there is significant merit in what Stef is getting at. We all have different soils and it does indeed play a factor in the traps function. Just my $.02. I saw Steve's pocket gopher soil and can say it's worlds different that the soils i work with. Not only did we have problems with the SC 1.75's, but the new duke 1.75's as well. In each of our pullouts the catch circle was well established and appeared as though the coyote had been there for a decent duration. The pan tension on these traps were 3# in the shed. I guess the mechanics of everything we do with mods, trigger, tension, bedding, etc....all play a role in how the trap preforms.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 30, 2004 7:38:23 GMT -6
without a doubt mallard- all factors-
Lets back up a little. Are all snapped traps losses?
While they might be a loss as far as your fur check goes- they really aren't a trap loss. Unless there is a catch circle- it isn't a loss to me. A trap snapped and pulled to end of chain isn't a loss.
Those are misses in my book. And with smaller traps- you are going to get more misses.
Most misses btw, I feel are non coyote misses- that the % of snapped traps caused by missing coyotes is low.
How low? Don't have a clue- don't have time to keep records like that. Things like this aren't a concern until they become a pattern.
I asked this once before, but most were too shy to reply- what % of snapped traps do you have in an average day. Say with 50 canine sets out- how many snapped- for whatever reason in an average day? 1-2? 3-4? 6-8?
I'd say in early season, I probably have 3-5 a day snapped per 50 traps- after the first 2-3 weeks, the % drop as the incidentals are removed and poorer locations are eliminated.
I also think you have to ask yourself- what happens when a coyote snaps a trap. What does he do?
Does he forever after avoid all of your sets- anything that looks or smells like you? Perhaps.
In extreme cases, where he was pinched good...maybe, for at least a time. And maybe not. I recaught 1 collared coyote a week later to the day in a trap 50 feet away from the capture point. An adult mated female.
More likely, if the trap just pops in his face, he will turn tail and run back- but then curiosity most likely will take over and he will come back to check it out. Thus the coyote tracks you see around a snapped trap- whether he set it off or another means did so- a coyote is not afraid of a snapped trap laying there.
I feel, at least in my country, that these coyotes aren't very spooked and will be taken next day, etc. Same with "diggers".
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Post by MChewk on Jun 30, 2004 7:54:50 GMT -6
Guys my view on pan tension is....COMMITMENT OF THE ANIMALS WEIGHT DOWNWARD INTO THE TRAP. Think about that for a second. Do you want a little commitment or more? I run "about" 2-3 lb.s of tension in the fall. A bit more for coyote ADC work in the spring/summer. The goal here is trying to catch AND hold our furbearer. This method results in very few...not all but few toe catches and pullouts. Beav, IF the trap springs are strong I can go along with your findings of end anchored trap chains compared to centered. AND I don't think you'd set a trap with weak springs anyway..lol Terry, you are right on those low levered traps. My findings is grind the jaw sides to raise the levers up AND replace springs to stronger version. Beav, since I'm thinking about it know the dbls traps may throw a monkey wrench into your side anchoring theory. Cuz I have seen evidence of paw sliding across jaws on long chained dbls...even in my "Houses.
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Post by thebeav2 on Jun 30, 2004 8:34:32 GMT -6
Tman as to sprung traps on a daily check I have some lets say out of 50 or so traps I'm probably looking at 5 or 6 on a average per day. And some times it's more.
If a animal has a bad experince at a trap set or certian location,how would we know what It's reaction Is or if It will work that set again Only one way to detrime that Is to have a radio collered animal to track.
But I will relate this story to you.
I found a dog In my trap It was fairly friendly and un harmed, I released It. That damn dog proceeded to walk over to my next set and walk right In and get caught. Now that's not the end of the story. I did a big ass kicking job on that dog It ran off out of sight. I remade both sets. Got In the truck started to drive away,and you can guess what happened,that damn dog came out of the brush and got right back into one of those sets and that's the end of the story. Well that's a dog and not a coyote but you never know.
Beav
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Post by Timber on Jun 30, 2004 10:31:16 GMT -6
"Thus the coyote tracks you see around a snapped trap- whether he set it off or another means did so- a coyote is not afraid of a snapped trap laying there."
They must be somewhat comfortable around traps. I have had them leave healthy steaming piles on sprung traps before. ;D
Tim
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Post by mattjones298 on Jun 30, 2004 14:43:28 GMT -6
steve hit the nail on the head. early season a man will have more sprung traps...one of the main reasons in my area is rutting buck deer. they got to sniff and paw at every thing thats dirt and sniff anything that smells.
by december 15th i`m down to 2 or 3 a day on a full day coyote line (some days) some times zero and sometimes 6 or 7.... i`ll be the first to admitt that afew are from sloppy remakes as i often just turn them into walk thru type sets and pile up some catch circle litter and put a smear of bait or shot of lure under it and go.
some times the same bait or lure will cause different responses from canines the same week if you get a weather change one of these baits is tained beaver meat with castor and any bait with amberett musk (not sure on spelling) if it`s warm and above freezing they want to roll on it , if it`s cold they will dig the fire out of it.
pan tention that is over a pound and a half is not for me as i have tried to run it and found nothing but problems with it. i seldom have toe catches, and i seldom have back foot catches and about all of the back foot catches are at urine post sets and are young males. i never realized it untill i started watching my own film of coyotes i have trapped. also about 90% of the coyotes i catch at dirtholes are by the right front foot and i dont off set my trap at a dirthole anymore and it`s still the right front foot....just rambling
matt
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Post by PAMINK on Jun 30, 2004 15:33:36 GMT -6
Matt Deer are a problem here too, we are loaded with them.
Tonquin musk while being a great lure ingredient in formulation for all animals is highly attractive to all hoofed (ungulates) animals. Tonquin = Siberian Deer Musk = Deer.
Many of my sprung traps are deer related. Terry
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Post by Iowa Badger on Jun 30, 2004 15:37:51 GMT -6
Zoonks! I'm a little worried about my Sleepy creek 1.75 OS. I bought them to use when domestics might be a problem. I'll givem another year and see how they perform.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 30, 2004 15:44:39 GMT -6
Trouble with too heavy pan tension- the tension never gets looser while sitting in the ground- it always tightens up.
I'vew set trqaps that had 3-4 lbs pressure- and after in the ground a couple weeks- needed a sledgehammer to set them off.
I'd rather err with too light a tension- with a filed pan/notch- you don't get any creep- a problem at times with light tension. packed inside jaws also aid in keep lighter tension pans from firing prematurely.
I prefer a pan that "just" goes down by itself- thats around 2 lbs- maybe a little more on 1.75s.
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Post by chub618 on Jun 30, 2004 16:23:11 GMT -6
ok here is what i am armed with for this upcomming season!!!!! 12 bridgers #2's 2 montana specials 3 sleepy creek #3's 6 " " 1.65 4 1 3/4 sleepy creeks 3 Blake & Lamb 1.3/4 3 1 3/4 montys 3 1 3/4 dukes 2 1 3/4 vic's 1 bmi k9 wolfer guess i will need to take good notes and see which i like best and what i need to get rid of.... by the way i am going to run shock springs on some of the 1 3/4 and going to be using 12-18 inches of chain.... all these traps have been base plated and #3 music wire spings put on
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Post by MChewk on Jun 30, 2004 19:33:00 GMT -6
Steve, I have experienced what you talk about....trap pan tension at 10lb.s instead of 2-3lb.s .. good point. I get that USUALLY after making a catch and all the trap covering is rubbed off.
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Post by dj88ryr on Jun 30, 2004 19:41:05 GMT -6
Steve, you wont have that problem with the Montanas,once they are adjusted at the begining of the season, your good to go. ;D
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Post by briankroberts on Jun 30, 2004 21:17:56 GMT -6
Well here's my 10 cents ( 2 cents don't buy much anymore) I like about 1 1/2 lbs of pan tension, though I plan on running a bit more on the Montanas( about 3 ) I don't have any gray fox and my reds are isolated so I'm not worried about missing them. As far as loss goes, with decked out Bridgers I rarely have any and like some of you have pointed out , its back foot catches. Several of my back foot catches that I had this year were in stepdown dirt holes ( so I guess they wanted to dig that lure). I feel that a sprung trap is a miss and not a loss as most are because of animals other than Coyotes, I don't take much time to figure out what did it unless its happens on a daily basis. I had 2 instances like that this year and they were both old female Coyotes. I don't use any softcatches so I can't comment on them. I mainly use Bridgers and MB 650's with a few Sleepy Creek # 4 coilsprings. If you deck the Bridgers out you will loose very few Coyotes. I do believe there is some merit to Beav's opinion on side mounting of the chain setup and have setup a couple of dozen this year to fing out , also shock springs seem to help against losses. My chain setup is almost the same as Matt's , lots of swivels and a shock spring.....B.....
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 1, 2004 10:18:02 GMT -6
As for the Sleepy Creeks, I don't know why they suck either....but they do. I put one on a fox paw, and it came off with very minimal pulling.
I feel spring strength is important. Lever height is a key factor as well as the angle the lever rides up the jaw.
One note on lever height...I have seen traps with nice, high levers but when there is a paw in the trap they stay down pretty low. This is due to bad jaw/lever design.
I lengthened all my chains so they do not bind with grass as much, added another swivel so I have a swivel at the trap, mid, and at the base, and added music wire springs for holding power and more speed through heavy mud. I do not want to see any toe catches or pullouts this year.
I have yet to find the ultimate K9 trap but this is what I would like to see...
A good heavy base with no "foot" opposite the dog post. It just gets in the way. Heavy levers that are very SHORT for ease of bedding. Levers should come up high and the angle of the jaws where the levers "lock up" should be close to vertical. They angle of the jaws should be a shallower angle where the levers begin to ride up the jaws. I also like a "stop" for the levers on the jaws. Jaw tips "smashed" like on the old Gibbs traps. 3/16" T bar offset with no sharp corners. Good springs with a long spring pin for 4 coiling. Pan that does not hit the levers when it drops. Dogless option would be nice too. Base punched out (like it is for the spring pin) for a D ring.
All of these thing could be done without adding much cost to a production trap. So who wants to go in the trap business with me? ;D ;D
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Post by dj88ryr on Jul 1, 2004 12:10:44 GMT -6
I am not a tinkerer Dukie, but a financial partner I could be, that way there is no argueing over design. Let's do it!!
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