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Post by trappnman on Jul 5, 2004 9:03:12 GMT -6
Another age old question- what works better on coyotes- bait or lure?
Or is one better during one season over another?
I used ot be a firm beleiver in bait. Bought many gals of commercial bait, usually Caven's. Did well with it.
I found that a bait mixture of venison scraps mixed with beaver castor did as good a job, and for several years used this bait at every set in conjunction with lure.
Several years ago, after trapping coon without baits for a couple year, decided to pull the plug on coyote bait as well- switching to the use of 2 lures at a set.
In all honesty, I never saw any decrease in my catch rate and in fact might have gotten increased yotes (hard to tell what is increased skill and what is the result of tangible things like traps, baits, lures).
Now- those that have heard me ride this horse before, know that I do not consider prepared baits to be anything but chunky lures. Blend them, smooth them out...and they ARE just lures.
Now- occasionally I'll toss a fresh gopher down a hole, esp if I am trapping gophers in the area- but feel I could catch the yote without it-
some say- size of bait, longer lasting smell. Agreed- which is why I USE lure...LOL
So why do you use bait? Or why don't you?
____________________________________________
Also....is fish oil a lure or a bait?
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Post by mattjones298 on Jul 5, 2004 9:15:29 GMT -6
i got to go catch some (bait) right now, for catfish...lol
matt
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Post by dj88ryr on Jul 5, 2004 9:16:29 GMT -6
I do not use bait for the most part, but, I will use mousecycles for late season fox, ( after snow has fallen ) I usually dip the mouse in Cachottier, so it may not be the mouse at all, but it is something I always did and continue to do so. Besides, it motivates me to catch all the mice that hang around the fur shed. ;D
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 5, 2004 9:25:18 GMT -6
Lure = $4 a bottle or more, bait = costless. I'm sure this is 1 big reason to use bait. I picked up a few jars of lure from a well known maker last year and the labels are gone so it's a guessing game. Last month I found some lures in the garage that are over twenty years old, I never had luck with them but will try them again. I think confidance or lack of is it. The answer of HOW to use certain lures more than WHAT lure to use is the piece of this puzzle I need to connect.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 5, 2004 9:26:42 GMT -6
I've been collecting mice also DJ. ;D
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Post by 17HMR on Jul 5, 2004 9:33:19 GMT -6
I use bait and lure at every set maybe just habit,or maybe havent found a lure that I compleatly trust, but it gives me more confidence. In my mind fish oil is a lure, I make my own and it is stronger smelling than a lot of payed for lures or fish oil. Jeff
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Post by skidway on Jul 5, 2004 10:45:06 GMT -6
I very rarely use bait of any type so when I do it's bought from somebody. Polecat- Try using a clear packaging tape on your lure bottles when you first get them. Keeps all the glass in one spot when you break one and the labels stay on when they get wet.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jul 5, 2004 11:12:31 GMT -6
Yeah Skid I read that on the net after it was too late, now it's a guessing game. In my line it may not make a differance. I've thought of mixing them.
My lack of confedance probably comes from my first experiances when everyone had a "majic potion" for sale and none of them seemed to help.
When I do get it to click, it will be thanks to you guys.
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Post by Obejoyful on Jul 5, 2004 11:40:13 GMT -6
I rarely anymore use baits opting instead for gland and curiosity lures. I also use large amounts of urine which I purchase by the gallon.
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Post by mattjones298 on Jul 5, 2004 17:04:36 GMT -6
i live in a high rainfall area. if we get a shower i still have a smell out there working. i luse bait at 100% of my dirtholes and 75% of my non-dirtholes.
i do not like the bobcat meat based baits like the nelson formula that is so talked about out in the western states . it does not do well for me here in my area. i like a ground beaver or rat bait spiced up with castor and other things...... so like steve said, it is realy a thick lure.
there are 3 types of baits in my book.
fairly fresh= light taint
1/2 rotten=2 week or more taint
and damn rotten= rotted down like glands
knowing what works when is the key. just because a bait works well this dec. 1st does not mean it will work next dec. 1st
it has alot to do with the weather and what the coyotes are up to diet wise....i hate a real good perssimon year as coyotes are very picky early on.
same thing with lures, good ones always have some attraction to coyotes just like good bait. last season a friend was catching alot of coyotes on some damn rotten bait....i was running a bait with a milder taint and re-baited with the rotten type bait and my catch instantly jumped. a week later it swapped back around to the bait i had been running
sorry for such a long post but this toppic interests me
matt
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Post by vttrapper on Jul 5, 2004 17:44:03 GMT -6
Matt,
The Nelson formula can be used with a variety of meats such as venison or beaver. Each gives a different oder as you can imagine. I usually have 3 baits made up with the formula each with a different meat. I also have other baits made up cause like you say, a bait good one year does not mean it is good the next or a month from when you first use it for that mater. Same goes for lures, straight bait like rats, deer, beaver, coon or even horse. Lots of folks love horse meat for bait. I can't seem to make the critters want it. Go figure, LOL.
frank
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Post by Maineman on Jul 5, 2004 17:47:38 GMT -6
Since it's limited to Coyote's...I plead the 5th
We ain't got's-em
;D
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Post by skidway on Jul 5, 2004 19:05:26 GMT -6
Maineman- you should include "yet". We never had them either in any numbers to speak of but we sure do now.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 5, 2004 19:21:31 GMT -6
Edge- the properties of urine dissipate much faster than lures do. Most "experts" feel urine is of little value after a few days- in good weather.
Thats why I lure in good quantites- so that bad weather DOESN'T put my sets out of commission. If the weather is so bad that it makes my lure ineffective- well, its usually time to remake the set anyways.
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Post by coyoteman37 on Jul 5, 2004 19:41:21 GMT -6
one thing to consider , even though yotes are greedy they will eat anything anytime. location will dictate alot. Is the coyote traveling to or from a hunting spot. are there kickbacks for territoral responses.I have learned to place gland sets and bait sets at what I feel are the right places thisreduce the amount of bait usage. dont stop useing bait it may be the difference in a win or a loss. the colder the weather the louder bait . Every nose and predator is in different moods. What smells good to you may not smell good to me but I may mark that spot that smelled and come back to it later. Also there is nothing wrong with both at one set or more . lets say you put three lures out on the same set there is more curosity there for a focal point and more time to get the paws on the pan.
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Post by Stef on Jul 5, 2004 20:06:50 GMT -6
I don't know why my old dirt holes get dugged in middle of January and I was trapping there in November and I was using only lures Stef
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Post by Stef on Jul 5, 2004 20:15:25 GMT -6
Just one thing before I go back in shed....
I could see that a lot of trappers use lure, bait and urine ata set and are saying that this lure is great or its no good or that bait ...bla bla bla...
Use only lures for fun and see the results Than you'll be able to isolated the good stuff
Stef
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Post by mattjones298 on Jul 5, 2004 20:33:37 GMT -6
good posts, steve, you say that the sets need to be remade anyway if it gets so wet that it washes lure. your right, but if you have out a line it took 4 days to pound in those traps with bait will catch coyotes untill you get to them.
stef is also right, a coyote can still smell lure after a rain and dig it a month later, but (how far) can the yote smell it.....
matt
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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 5, 2004 20:33:41 GMT -6
Any hole type set I make will have Bait and lure used at that set. I think the bait just gives you that added edge.
Beav
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Post by woody on Jul 5, 2004 22:14:10 GMT -6
me confused I think Edge has something there on the urine if it was to wash off everytime it rained then how would the Ki-yute know that it was the same twig that the one before it whizzed on there has to be something staying on that twig, I think it's the same with lure and bait. I made sets in december and had nothing work them I want back in april and had the same pattern look like a bomb hit it ;D I was using backbreaker as the bait and a LDC from Newt as the lure. there was no sign of the bait left, but I did find the Q-tip that had the LDC on it and it was chewed pretty good ;D What's this mean I don't know other then I should have left them traps in and I should use an LDC all season
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