Bait vs Lure....

[woody]

I love these post that educate and makes one think ;D

Keep it going guys, I think Matt has a lot to learn here ;D or is that me

[a1foxhopper]

Edge. I think what Stef is saying is that a good lure will still work and attract even after a flood or alot of snow.

I rarely use bait for fox. It just never seemed to increase my catch enough to lug the extra jar around. I have also gotten away from using urine as much in the last few years and use mostly a gland lure at posts.... but I bought a gal. from Trappnman at the F.T.A. and will go back to using more this year. Who knows... maybe using bait will help me increase my yote catch.

[trappnman]

First of all- large quanities of lure are relative. Some claim they use 1/10 of a drop. Some use 3-4 drops. Most 10-15 drops.....now me...I use say 15-20 drops.

Not a real big difference $$$ wise in lure purchases- but a big difference in longevity at the set.

I don't remake my sets after heavy rains because I need to relure- heck, I could leave them there for weeks and the original lure would still be doing it's job. I remake because I'm using a smaller trap. If I was using #3 or #4- I wouldn't remake near as much...and then wouldn't relure.

My thought...since I refuse to believe that you can spook a coyote with too much "smell"...is as long as I am remaking the set...why not refreshen it also? That way...it can be left unattended for a wek- 10 days or more...in good weather...something we have an abundance here during the fall.

Except on remakes- I never relure isolated sets- its usally relure all or none.

Cost? By the time you figure your time cutting bait, mixing bait, buying additives, etc- what do you have in a gal of bait? If you purchase it- a gal of bait is not cheap, and a 4oz bottle of lure will go as far or farther than a gal of bait.

Lure is relatively cheap- Mr Roberts caught 23 coyotes off of a $14 bottle of lure...a cost to him of 60 cents per coyote...and I believe he had a little left in the bottle...

A years supply of lure can be purchased for most trappers for under the price of a meal out on the town...for fulltime trappers- add a date and a show..

Lets look at WHY lures were invented. One can imagine the first lures were simply chunks of meat....and then trappers discovered certain items- beaver castor for example...attracted more consistently and provided more desired reactions than plain meat alone. Lures weer improved and refined- and continued to work better than plain bait... and here we are.

Ponder this- on M-44s- each uer has a "secret"{ lure that he smears onto the trigger- to get a bitting/pulling response. I am privey to a few of these formulas- in fact, Wiley E allowed his forumla to be published in Fur Takers a while ago- and it contained many things- including commercial lures.

Why? Because the lure provides the desired response needed.

Now- does bait last longer than lure?

Well sure, a dead cow will of course last longer than a few drops of lure...but in a protected hole? I can't see it. I can go to spots where I dumped gophers- and see and smell no trace (to me) a short time later. Yet...I can smell lure at sets that were pulled for weeks.

Lures are MADE to last.

Now- remember I am talking straight baits here.

If you add ANYTHING to inhance it...its a lure...no matter if walnut sized chunks, a paste or a liquid.

And now we have come full circle to what consistency we like our lures....

Lets get one thing clear- I have caught a lot of cooytes (and coon-tons of coon!) on bait. I'm not saying bait doesn't work. Of course it does...but is it anything more than just another type of lure?

A big, messy, stinky....lure?

(btw- for those wondering- I went "baitless" several years before I met stef...)

[trappnman]

Oh yes- the life of urine.

Ponder this....WHY do urine posts get renewed constantly? WHY do canines feel a need to remark every time through an area?

[a1foxhopper]

Maybe it's just a good place too pee, wether they can smell the old stuff or not?

[trappnman]

Thats part of it...but also, every canine passing by adds to the post... so the last deposited is the dominant smell...many times, a coyote just adds to the multiple deposits already made.

Try this simple test. place some lure on a holder and squirt some urine on another holder. Place both outside for a week. Go back to them..what smells the most? In most conditions, you won't even be able to smell the urine.

Yes, canines have better noses than us......

[CoonDuke]

I would not be without prepared bait on my line. I have had excellent results with it. I agree that is is just a "lure with mass".

I use bait differently than a lot of trappers. Many guys want bait so it gives off a lot of odor. I like bait because it gives substance in the hole and I think it makes the fox work the set better. Would a food lure work just as well, probably some would. But the bait works and is no more of a mess than lures. I keep my bait in 8 oz. jars that fit nicely in my bag. I use a popsicle stick to apply it. Not a lot of muss and fuss.

[Traveler]

I use a fair amount of bait.Records have shown me that bait has helped me quite a bit.Especially in wet wet weather.It's also helped me at times when you have that individual coyote that just didn't care that much for my lure,but it's hard to turn down something to eat. ;D

[trappnman]

Traveler- How did you make your tests? Did you make 2 sets side by side, and lure one with your provem lure and then the other with bait and no lure?

What type of bait do you use? Anything added?

[trappnman]

First of all Edge- what bait do you use...more importantly..what additives, if any?

there is no "off" time for the bait.

Because of why?

(you know where I am going with this, don't cha?)

[Traveler]

Steve......that's the way I did it so that it would be comparing apples to apples.I have naturally had times that a coyote like the lure better,but the bait came thru enough to show me that it has value.

The two best for me in my area has been the Nelson formula bait and also ground deer scraps with about 3 days taint on it before preserving.Then I add some beaver castor to it.

[trappnman]

venison scraps with castor was my favorite also.

[Stef]

Ok you want a see how a lure can last long?

I'll bet a $100 bill to anybody on here.

Take my most liquid lure (some say paste lure last longer :

Try my coon lure ProCoon.

Pour a cap full on something absorbant like a piece of cardboard. Put it in your garage, shed etc... and smell it next July 2005.

If you cannot smell it ( I'll give you $100 bill)

Please note that it won't be as loud as it is when it is fresh but it will be still there.

I have some stickers in my truck who had some ProCoon on it and I can still smell it after 2+ years ;D ;D ;D

Also, my nose is burned out
I don't have a coyote nose!!!

Stef

[thebeav2]

What do you call bait?
When you add castor and other things to your meat base does this serve as a lure or a bait?
The way most of us make bait I think that It could be classified as a lure.

My bait/lure Is spiked with different things, and every hole set gets a good portion.

Beav

[thebeav2]

I've used some lures that have glazed over In a matter of day's. And my nose had a hard time smelling that lure. Now maybe a coyote could still smell It.

Beav

[dj88ryr]

I do know one thing about Cachottier, At some sets I used last October, I returned to this May, the holes were dug out about 10 times the size they had been, there was fresh scat there and fresh digging, and the digging looked as if it had been going on for some time, why? because the lure WAS STILL THERE!!! That is after all the snow, rain, etc for 8 months. Now granted, I use a good size dollop of lure, but this was astounding, makes me believe that those same sets will produce fur this season, as they are already visiting the site.

[Steve Gappa]

I agree 100% beav.

Bait with additives is simply a thick lure. Grind it down to a cream- and its a paste lure.

A chunk of bait doesn't put off very much odor at all in dry or cold weather- so in these instances at least- lure outlasts bait.

[trappnman]

I agree- patio edges are much better locations!

Edge- I had a guy from Ws put a lure on styrafoam peanutsmand nailed it outside in the sun, etc. Week after week, he could still smell the lure.

My point is not that bait doesn't work...its just that I don't think bait works any better.

Any very few trappers use pure bait...I would venture MOST use a commercial bait or bait additives..or add homemade concoctions, oils, scents...

And to me...a bait is just a chunk lure- that is, in quantities going down a hole.

[Steve Gappa]

what bait is- is the germane part of this entire thread.

if you think unadorned bait attracts more coyotes than lure- as you say, thats your right.

[trappnman]

Exactly the point I was trying to make- a doctored up bait isn't a bait any longer- its meat based lure.

So you have liquid lure, creamy lure, paste lure and chunky lure.

A bait is just a chinky lure- in fact, any commercial baits i would consider bait- as do most who use it.

So your contention is a "solid" lure works better than a liquid lure?

Many agree.