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Post by woody on May 2, 2004 19:36:29 GMT -6
I have never heard of this before edumacate me please. ;D and remember I am from Ohio, so make it easy to know what your saying ;D
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Post by FivePointsJohn on May 2, 2004 19:48:59 GMT -6
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Post by kevinupp on May 2, 2004 20:20:49 GMT -6
And here I thought it was something you gave to the coyotes to send their friends to your trap in exchange for letting them go.
Who'dathunk it was something like that??
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Post by z on May 2, 2004 20:23:09 GMT -6
Fivepoints, I disagree with you on that matter. I'll leave it at that.........
Ever see a domestic take a dump and do a kickback?
Was a trap dug up previous to this? Zz
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Post by Wackyquacker on May 2, 2004 21:13:29 GMT -6
Z has it...sorta a territorial marking .
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Post by jsevering on May 3, 2004 4:42:42 GMT -6
thats my take on it also a territorial marker with a visual effect, like posting your land, or painting your house pink...jim
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Post by trappnman on May 3, 2004 5:53:23 GMT -6
My Guesstimate: A "kickback" is a behavior habit. In dogs- I have seen it occur in 2 ways- and both of those could be considered and probably are territorial related. 1) in conjuction w/urinating, defeciating 2) responding to another dog in an aggressive manner. This usually is done on stiff legs- Now- and you asked for this Z- so don't pussyout with "thats all I'll say" - are the kickbacks done over urine or onto urine? with dogs- it seems to be more of a covering up action than a spreading the scent action. Now don't confuse kickbacks with digging. Kickbacks rarely break the surface- mainly duff. I've seen winter coyote diggings, but can't really remember a winter kickback- but then, I really don't see much winter scat. I'm seeing the coyotes on their travel routes- maybe thats a factor. I see a kickback every now and then in the summer- either they aren't a common occurance or else I'm just not seeing the sign. I do see a scat and tracks in a lot of locations on a daily basis- I'll pay a little more attention and see if I see more. Chris- I'd be interested in your thoughts- Tell me a few more details on this pic Z. What is the tramped down area to the left- you or the coyote(s)? 1 or more coyotes? Was there urine and/or scat here?
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Post by woody on May 3, 2004 6:13:02 GMT -6
What ya'll just described, my female lab does it about 20 feet from where she pee's or poo's ;D I have found scat out in the pastures but theres no sign of them kicking the duff around Five Points Johnny, Your the only one I know of that has their traps dugup and poo'd on ;D ;D ;D ;D I hope you learn how to boil and wax them traps this summer jsevering, is your house pink??? I bet DJ's is
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Post by gcs on May 3, 2004 6:13:26 GMT -6
There was a long discussion on this about 2 weeks ago on Trapperman. On my two female Border Collies,It's a dominant issue as they are both in "their" territory. One dog will urinate,the other,more dominant one, will immediatly "cover" this urine with it's own,walk off about 6-10' and kick back with their front feet back towards the urine spot. These dogs exhibit strong "wolflike" habits,and I have never observed this behavior with defecation. I would expect in coyotes that the kickback would be a dominant issue and a territorial issue when in overlapping territories.
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Post by z on May 3, 2004 6:39:59 GMT -6
The kickbacks were made by the coyotes.......I would guess a pair, coulda been more, but not less.......
Nothing was added by myself. I had killed a pair 2 weeks earlier 50 yds from where I took these pics.
Urine was present, No droppings.......
Steve, Not quite sure I understand your ? exactly.......Everything you see in that pic was done by the coyotes. there was no lure or urine or droppings or disturbance or nothing.......cept a dead, mangy yipper laying in a ditch. LOL! How's that moderator man? Zz
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Post by trappnman on May 3, 2004 7:49:26 GMT -6
I was wondering if all the area tramped down was down by the coyotes- how long they were i nathe area. Also was curious if 1 or more.
I thoughts to why this double kickback?
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Post by Zagman on May 3, 2004 8:44:33 GMT -6
I think those are buck scrapes....
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Post by dj88ryr on May 3, 2004 8:46:40 GMT -6
;D ;D ZAG
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Post by musher on May 3, 2004 8:56:16 GMT -6
I think the kick back is a visual territory marking. My dogs do it (not all - only the dominent ones) and wolves do also.
I've never seen where a fox did it. Do they?
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Post by TDunn on May 3, 2004 9:40:16 GMT -6
I think the "kicking back" is a preservation thing. With the urine or dropping on the ground acting as a signature or marker, the debris kicked over it would act, at least in the canines mind, to make the "post" last longer. If you left a note for me in the woods, you would seek to shelter it from the weather, would you not?
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Post by coyote on May 3, 2004 17:55:28 GMT -6
hmmmmm...
I've only come across one disturbance I thought was a kickback. it was next to a pile of droppings on a rock in a typical trail situation. saw four distinct "pawings" in the dirt/mud. it SEEMED the 'yote squatted, then kicked all four feet (In SOME sequence) very close to where the paws would have been for the squat.
this was following a heavy rain the night before.
I find more steaming piles of crap immediately following a heavy rain. anyone else notice this or do I have too much time on my hands? ;D
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Post by woody on May 3, 2004 20:25:43 GMT -6
Thanks for edumacating me ;D now I feel for asking ;D I haven't found any of them yet. but will keep an eye open for them. Now the next question: Do you set up on them or near them??? or are they a one time deal??? woody
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Post by trappnman on May 4, 2004 5:53:29 GMT -6
After a heavy rain? Maybe- never really thought about it.
Could it be, like my old hounddog- they just don't like taking the time to squat in the rain? So they grin and bear it until the rain stops?
The kickbacks I have seen dogs make seems like they are COVERING UP the urine and/or scat.
Are they trying to minimize their presence?
Regarding scat in general- any time you gat an opportunity to see scat from day 1 onward on consecutive days- check out the appearance more closely as to how it weathers.
I have seen coyote scat that is fresh one morning- yet the next day (in certain conditions) it looks like it has been there a year.
Otter scat is esp like that- fresh one day, aged the next.
People often see old looking scat- and think it IS old. It could be- but it could also only be a few days old.
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Post by coyote on May 4, 2004 14:22:58 GMT -6
Regarding scat in general- any time you gat an opportunity to see scat from day 1 onward on consecutive days- check out the appearance more closely as to how it weathers. I have seen coyote scat that is fresh one morning- yet the next day (in certain conditions) it looks like it has been there a year. Otter scat is esp like that- fresh one day, aged the next. People often see old looking scat- and think it IS old. It could be- but it could also only be a few days old. man, I'll have to try that! I usually scoop it up and bring it home to freeze.
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Post by mike692 on May 5, 2004 5:48:15 GMT -6
Regarding scat in general- any time you gat an opportunity to see scat from day 1 onward on consecutive days- check out the appearance more closely as to how it weathers. I have seen coyote scat that is fresh one morning- yet the next day (in certain conditions) it looks like it has been there a year. Otter scat is esp like that- fresh one day, aged the next. People often see old looking scat- and think it IS old. It could be- but it could also only be a few days old. I think this has something to do with diet. I did a bit of research on all raw meat diets for dogs. The folks that fed their dogs raw meat found that droppings dried up much faster than a dog that was being fed a corn based dry dog food. Since we know that most coyote don't live on Ole Roy, that would explain that. ;D
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