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Rust
May 11, 2004 11:13:16 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 11, 2004 11:13:16 GMT -6
FWIW,the areas I had the worst"dip"problems had a very high limestone content..........HMMMM.
Edge
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Rust
May 12, 2004 7:14:54 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 12, 2004 7:14:54 GMT -6
Now lets not have another round of spontaneous generation here with limestone.
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Rust
May 12, 2004 9:17:39 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 12, 2004 9:17:39 GMT -6
would the difference in soil ph cause a significant difference "in real life" with rust? I would think so- obviously salts speed up rusting.
WQ- you sound like you have a working, practical knowledge of chemistry- unlike my research knowledge-
would a limestone soil base cause different reactions than your solid or the badland type sand/soil- mainly alkaline I think?
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Rust
May 12, 2004 9:27:22 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 12, 2004 9:27:22 GMT -6
Now this is some cutting edge stuff...
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Rust
May 12, 2004 9:34:56 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 12, 2004 9:34:56 GMT -6
Just for grins I wnet back over my records;now one of my notations is FD designated the trap is/was dipped.There is no seperation betwixt speed dip(dont know what brand I used and dont care)and formula one. With the exception of one hobby farm,ALL of the refusals came on soil with histirucally high limestone content;meaning it is native there.On the hobby farm it would not be out of the question that it(meaning limestone)was introduced,but the soil there didnt have limestone originally.
Edge
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Rust
May 12, 2004 15:16:34 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 12, 2004 15:16:34 GMT -6
I would say yes. As for what types of reactions, IF ANY, and how or which ones would contribute to your observed avoidence I won't venture a guess...just way to many things possible.
In science you don't try to prove something. Rather, you present a hypothesis with supporting data and ask others to disprove you.
Now we need a hypothesis, preferrably a testable one, based on observations. Forget the traps for a bit and make some coyote sets and in the bed sprinkle a layer of iron filings put in ENOUGH at first. In another set use the rusted remains of these same filings. In another bed (the untreated control) add nothing but make a bed just like all the others. Now if you can pick a spot where you can easily read sign out and away from the bed as well as at the set it would be best. To collect data figure a scoring system; somehow try to quantify the activity maybe number of tracks within different concentric circles...the lure is the bullsey, the bed the 10 ring, etc.
Another way that might be a bit sexier make a grub stake and locate it in the center of a cleared circular area. on one side of the grub at a distance for a trap (a starting point at least) sprinkle the iron filings repeat the same at 180 degrees. Make a similar set up for the rust. Evaulate the track patterns...over the filing beds or between etc. Brush out any tracks after each check.
If this gives you some reproducible results showing a cause / effect relationship then the protocl can be expanded to include, oh hell lets say, acidified soil neutralized soil, limestone laiden soil. You might sprinkle on some sulfur (sulfur reacts with metals and resultant reaction products often have a foul odor) with the filings etc. etc. etc.
The Logan studies must have protocols for evaluation of attractants you are doing the same thing only different. Ask Stef to tell you how he evaluates his lures / components. Seems like you could do this in conjunction with your gopher work. Remember record everthing especialy the weather.
By the way, the observation that "dipped" traps seem to show the same response pattern could argue for a common cause that may not be rust.
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Rust
May 12, 2004 19:26:34 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 12, 2004 19:26:34 GMT -6
WQ, a lot of dippers have reported the unseen, but presence of rust under the dip.
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Rust
May 12, 2004 19:52:10 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 12, 2004 19:52:10 GMT -6
That's the F-1 laytex stuff yes / no?
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:00:18 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 12, 2004 20:00:18 GMT -6
No, the speed dip, petroleum based, I have heard of nothing about F-1, only speed dip. Also, I have never used dip, just what I heard. I did get some traps on E-Bay once that were dipped, I removed the dip with acid.
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:06:30 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 12, 2004 20:06:30 GMT -6
I had the "rusting under the dip"problem with F-1,not with the other dips;they had their own idiosyncracies.
Edge
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:12:49 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 12, 2004 20:12:49 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]idiocyncracies[/glow] dang that word even looks sexy!
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:25:06 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 12, 2004 20:25:06 GMT -6
Yeah, but have you seen the polished dome?? Lynn says thats sexy. ;D
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:28:11 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 12, 2004 20:28:11 GMT -6
..."Lynn says thats sexy."
DJ,she is just tired of the HAT..........she is giving you one of those way-too-subtle girl hints.
Edge
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Rust
May 12, 2004 20:44:59 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 12, 2004 20:44:59 GMT -6
;D ;D ;D ;D Think I ought to buy her one at the convention?
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Rust
May 12, 2004 21:01:36 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 12, 2004 21:01:36 GMT -6
If you are fond of sleeping alone;yes.LMAO!!
Edge
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