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Rust
May 10, 2004 18:06:39 GMT -6
Post by Hal on May 10, 2004 18:06:39 GMT -6
I believe we have played this game before? Steve, how come you always gotta play left field? I’ll play left field for a change. Theory #1 I’m sure glad rust don’t scare coyotes away from my traps. And therein may lie the rub. You nervously anticipate that rust will become a factor, and in doing so, exude some barely detectable body odor that subsequently frightens coyotes from your sets. Misting the set with urine, counteracts these odors, not this perceived odor of rust. You worry too much. Theory #2 Swamp Boogers. During wet rainy periods, Swamp Boogers are known to range far afield. These are the times when your traps appear to causing the most problems. It is possible that during these times, Swamp Boogers may have visited your sets, and this is what frightened away the coyotes. Misting the sets with urine may actually be providing a deterrent to Swamp Boogers. Swamp Boogers usually avoid urine, but be warned they are highly attracted to castor based lures. Please be advised that I am not prepared to defend either one of these premises strenuously -- Hal
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Rust
May 10, 2004 18:38:55 GMT -6
Post by Edge on May 10, 2004 18:38:55 GMT -6
**NOW** I'm starting to get it...........boy howdy I was hangin by a thread there for a while............swamp boogers and flop sweat.Got it.
Edge
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Rust
May 10, 2004 19:26:01 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 10, 2004 19:26:01 GMT -6
LOl- unfortunately, the rust problem found me!
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Rust
May 10, 2004 20:07:36 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 10, 2004 20:07:36 GMT -6
If nothing else, this thread has had me sniffing everything that I have seen rusting the last few days
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Rust
May 10, 2004 20:37:59 GMT -6
Post by ChrisM on May 10, 2004 20:37:59 GMT -6
But to pull and replace any trap which hasnt made another catch in three days!!!!!
Man you must have an incredible coyote population to expect that type of success.
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Rust
May 10, 2004 20:41:36 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 10, 2004 20:41:36 GMT -6
This might be where the confidance factor enters the equation Chris, I think that if it had been a shined trap he figures in three days, it is rusting pretty good, if a new clean trap, not having made a catch yet, he keeps it set longer.
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Rust
May 10, 2004 20:55:41 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 10, 2004 20:55:41 GMT -6
No, no Chris- I do have incredible confidence but thats not what I meant After making a catch- whether possum, cat, skunk, coon or occasionally a coyote- if that particular trap doesn't make another catch within 3 days, I'm going to change traps. If I catch someone within 3 days after the previous catch- the 3 day cycle starts over. Many traps have action of some sort this often or more. If the trap is untouched- it won't be replaced. Now- this is a first for me- I never before have changed traps at a set- unless very muddy traps that can't be cleaned. I am convinced that do so will add to my take.
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Rust
May 10, 2004 21:26:24 GMT -6
Post by ChrisM on May 10, 2004 21:26:24 GMT -6
if that particular trap doesn't make another catch within 3 days, I'm going to change traps.Yes, thats what I thought you said. thats why I responded as I did. Here, to expect a trap to make a catch every three days would be asking the impossible. Look at it this way. I run my line, with the usual take of skunks, badgers, porkys, and of course another tremendous catch on coyotes for the day! 72 hour check. So the very next time I run this line I pull and replace every trap which caught a critter last trip but is empty today. Aint no way! Coyotes probably haven't even been back yet.
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Rust
May 10, 2004 21:47:14 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 10, 2004 21:47:14 GMT -6
Chris- either a trap is in a location where it gets a lot of use or it is not.
If not- well, then it won't get changed.
I've never done this before- but looking back on last years line, I really don't think it will be all that many traps that are changed.
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Rust
May 11, 2004 5:49:09 GMT -6
Post by ChrisM on May 11, 2004 5:49:09 GMT -6
'either a trap is in a location where it gets a lot of use or it is not. '
Thats true. But out here a "lot of use" might be a coyote every two weeks!
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Rust
May 11, 2004 6:06:21 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 11, 2004 6:06:21 GMT -6
Ya need to move! Chris- after 3-4 days of trapping after setting up a line- very few traps won't have action. But stuff like possums and skunks are usually caught within the first week to 10 days- thereafter, incidental catches slow way down- Very few traps would be changed those first couple of weeks- but after the incidentals have slowed down, after you have caught the neighbors wandering cats and dogs- once it settles down to "serious" coyote trappng- thats when I'll be changing traps. Hey- if no improved results are evident, I'll gp back to NOT changing traps.
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Rust
May 11, 2004 7:19:55 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 11, 2004 7:19:55 GMT -6
I wonder if others have observed this, what appears to me to be an, extreme reaction? I've heard of rust theories / problems but never to this extent. I don't remember what was reported in O'Gorman either. Do those reading this see "T"s problems as extreme and / or differnet from their own?
"T", have others reported this extent of reactions to you? Does this happen widely over your entire line? Does this happen all at once? What causes have you considered and ruled out?
I understand that Yancey has a live trap for Swamp Boggers and Wendt, I'm sure, will develope a live market for ya. ;D
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Rust
May 11, 2004 7:28:09 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 11, 2004 7:28:09 GMT -6
WQ, here we have a problem with rust and coyotes. Up in NH, not so, I caught em even in untreated traps at times, but again, NH has much drier air than this humid place. I have no idea why, but it does affect some, and it seems to happen more in humid areas, not as much in areas with lower moisture content in the air.
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Rust
May 11, 2004 7:49:15 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 11, 2004 7:49:15 GMT -6
O'Gorman said - a used, shiny trap will start to rust bad in wet condions. Coyotes will avoid the rusting trap. To cure this problem I spray a very heavy mist over the trap bed. I wil luse a gallon of urine in this way on appx 60 sets.
Leggitts said- that if a trap continues to catch fox- leave it be. But after it sits 3 days without a catch- in rainy weather- change it.
T", have others reported this extent of reactions to you?
See above. This was encountered and corrected before reading the above 2 books.
Does this happen widely over your entire line? Does this happen all at once?
see my previous posts- yes and yes- withiin a few days the pattern emerged.
What causes have you considered and ruled out?
Give me some alternative possible cause- I reported earlier my cause and effect experiments and can see no other possiblity than what I have stated.
Reread what I have stated I did with a fresh mind- all your questions have been answered.
I'd be more that happy to consider some other explanation- I cannot do so.
This whole experiment was maybe 6-7 years ago. Since then- every couple of years- I discontinue the misting on remakes. Success rates plummet. Resume- success rates go up.
You know- many report problems catching coyotes in catch circles. I mist my remakes- and probally catch 3/4 of my cooytes in remakes sets.
Interesting thing about the digging and the dips. I put a poll on Dobbins a few years ago- asking 1) who used to dye/wax then went to speed dips 2) did they stay with speed dips 3) if not, why did they go back 4) did the digging stop.
over 100 people answered. About 45 answered that they used to dye/wax, then they dipped, then went back to wax/dye.
I emailed everyone of those people- and just about all emailed me back.
Without exception- these people were getting excweptionalk digging at the trap with dips- they returned to wax/dye- and the digging stopped.
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Rust
May 11, 2004 8:02:52 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 11, 2004 8:02:52 GMT -6
I'm not doubting the experience just hunting for a pattern. Soil conditions come to mind. For example, NH and Pa close to same precip. NH free stone streams / soils Reidsville Pa much more limestone.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE IS ANY RELATIONSHIP HERE JUST GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF HOW ONE MAY APPROACH THINGS.
Over spraying with urine; masks the "smells" or triggers a behavior change?
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Rust
May 11, 2004 8:13:16 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 11, 2004 8:13:16 GMT -6
Our area here is a good humus loam soil and a predominance of limestone.
Over spraying with urine; masks the "smells" or triggers a behavior change?
Now that I do not know. Ironic thing is- I don't believe you can "cover" the smell- you can change it, you can get it to a point coyotes won't care- but I don't beleive yo ucan cover it up per se.
A behavior change is certainly happening- my best guess was always you were making it so the coyote- for whatever reason- just didn't care.
good question WQ!
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Rust
May 11, 2004 8:26:47 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 11, 2004 8:26:47 GMT -6
Another possibility- was I having more problems with familar coyotes vs nonfamilar coyotes?
Perhaps- relying on memory- I was trapping much closer to cover (set asides, brsuh, ravines) than I do now- lot fewer lanes in the middle of nowhere.
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Rust
May 11, 2004 8:44:00 GMT -6
Post by Wackyquacker on May 11, 2004 8:44:00 GMT -6
Discovery awaits the prepared mind!
RE SEARCH
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Rust
May 11, 2004 8:47:10 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on May 11, 2004 8:47:10 GMT -6
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Rust
May 11, 2004 9:53:40 GMT -6
Post by dj88ryr on May 11, 2004 9:53:40 GMT -6
I find it interesting that this area and Steve's area, have predominantly limestone and the rust refusal problem. NH, ...no limestone no refusals. Now I thought limestone neutralized acid
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