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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 18, 2004 20:34:15 GMT -6
Brian brought up post sets on the coyote avoidance thread. I have never gotten the knack of making a true sublte type of post set and do feel that they would add coyotes to my take.
Some say- and there is truth to it I believe- that any set with gland scent and urine is in effect a urine post set. Especially at remakes- I think a lot are caught coming in to sniff and piss.
I've tried cornstalks, week clumps. grass clods turned on end among other things for post sets- and can honestly say I have never caughht a canine in a set I made AS a post set.
So.... what am I doing wrong? I know there are many variations of post sets- so lets not worry about which one is the "right one". I'd like to hear all about the variations.
Your thoughts?
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Post by Daubber on Jan 18, 2004 20:43:12 GMT -6
Steve - I'll never forget my first red fox, I caught it at a scent post set utilizing a clump of high standing field grass along an access road that led from a lower field to a higher field. Two days prior to the catch an experienced trapper told me he used Hawbaker's red fox lure and urine on scent post sets, and then described the set to me. I had only been making dirt holes with deer meat bait, so the idea of using just a lure/urine was hard for me to believe in. It took 2 nights to make me a believer!
Now I really like scent post sets (caught fox and coon in them) and I can't wait to read the responses to this thread!!!
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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 18, 2004 20:48:30 GMT -6
I want to hear YOUR comments- sounds like you use and like the set...
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Post by CoonDuke on Jan 18, 2004 20:55:30 GMT -6
Heres something interseting I saw the other day and made me think about trying a post set like it.
I saw a small clump of manure on a farm road that must have fell off the manure spreader. Probably about 16" long and 8 inches wide. It taperd on a low angle from the one end to the other, where it dropped off at basically a 90 degree angle. Kinda looked like a "ramp" shape. There was some snow on the manure clump and I noticed some fox urine on it. There was a fox track, tight to the clump, and parallel to the steep side of the clump. My dog was with me and ran up sand sniffed the scent post. When he was done and went on his way, his track covered the fox track and was EXACTLY in the same position as the fox track was. This told me that my dog and a fox worked that particular post in the exact same way. Whether they would approach the same all the time...I don't know.
The "manure clump post set" would be very easy to reproduce, and I may give it a try sometime.
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Post by Stef on Jan 18, 2004 20:58:15 GMT -6
Steve I like post set for coyote and most of my big dudes are killed with post set. I don't use it much for fox...prefer a nice looking hole with a good gland scent ;D The best results I have seen so far, its with a piece of burned wood or just old colored wood. Like a Burned block about that size Stef
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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 18, 2004 21:03:19 GMT -6
We need details!
Yes, burned block is another set I need to try.
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Post by Stef on Jan 18, 2004 21:04:39 GMT -6
You should ask Slim, I learned that from his tape ;D ;D ;D Slim, where are you??? Stef
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 18, 2004 21:06:01 GMT -6
I tried some post sets like Stefs with limited success, the problem I think was that I was using lone rocks and with the wet weather I think the scent was lost quickly, with wood being porous, I think it would hold the scent longer.
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Post by coyote on Jan 18, 2004 21:10:03 GMT -6
Steve,
I'm no expert, but have caught fox and coyotes both on post sets.
you probably already know this, but put the gland lure and/or urine close to the ground...REAL close. otherwise, they will stand too far back from the trap when they step up to take a sniff.
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Post by Stef on Jan 18, 2004 21:12:31 GMT -6
DJ, if there's a hole in wood...I'll put some glands there but if not, I put all scent underneeth + a good shot of urine on top.
Another thing that I use is a piece of wood of about 8 inches long by 2-3 inches large and burned with a propane torch before season.
Like a wood stake, I cut them with an angle and the nice thing about them is that you can pound them into the ground and if you put some call lure at the base of it, canine will try to pull the stick so its nice to stake it down the piece of wood and also, that size works well for fox scent post station, it can be pounded more to target females on post or like a stick to target male.
Stef
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 18, 2004 21:20:22 GMT -6
Thanks STef, you just gave me another chore to do now...lets see...#9 Make scent post stakes for fox.....#10 Take some wood and burn it to use for Coyote scent post, use drill to make hole for gland lure... ;D
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 18, 2004 21:27:08 GMT -6
Gotta love the old post set. Like stef says a piece of burnt wood works real well, I also use a clump of grass, many times I have to dig one up and move it, thats no problem. If the location is a grass lane as many of mine are the post set goes on a field corner and a hole or flat set about 10' away. If there's no field corner I place the post set inbetween two other sets. I keep the gland lure and urine down low even underneath if I can and a dropping 1" past the trap jaw towards the attractor. I keep my pan about 8" from the attractor. I also try to pick a spot for the post set that lends itself to blending. I had a digger this year that was giving me fits and after 3 days of it I put a new post set on a field corner about 50' from my other set location, just used a dropping for an attractor and bingo 1st night had her. I catch more Coyotes in Hole sets , but I use the post set a lotand I think I probably catch Coyotes that I wouldn't otherwise.....B.....
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 18, 2004 21:33:30 GMT -6
Your mention of the problem female will cause me to start having nightmares again. I went 5 weeks before I caught the -itch, why is it always the females that are the problem?
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 18, 2004 23:04:20 GMT -6
I dunno DJ maybe its that Intuition thingy, 5 weeks!!! Wow Your a determined dude aren't you???.....B..... ;D
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Post by Dusty on Jan 19, 2004 1:11:28 GMT -6
I'm not a big fan of pigeonholeing, so what I call a flat set would probably often pass for a post set and vice-verse - I don't guess I've ever really thought about what I was making should be called, I just make whatever the area calls for. Anyhoo, I've never manged to make showy work for me - wood, burned wood, rocks, and at least one red 5-gallon gas can used as backing/attractors have never caught me much fur.
What does work very well for about everything I trap is subtle. I find something that stands out a little bit - usually a clump of snow riding up on a tussock or somesuch - and put a little lure (and, in spring when the wolves area breeding, urine) on it. I usually use something like a small stick dipped in lure, and I relure maybe once a month - and remember that I'm trapping between -10 and -40F (-50 right now, so I'm NOT trapping!). I'll often poke my lured stick under the snow so as not to add a visual attractor. As somewhat of a side note, I think most people grossly overuse lure - just because you can't smell it (ever sniff at Canine Select at -30?) doesn't mean the critters can't, and what smells just right to you smells unnatural (hence frightening) to them.
My "flatter" variation of this set is essentially the same thing, but with only the lure as a guide - they have to go over my trap to get to the lure, there isn't anything physically preventing them from circling - and is almost always made in more open areas.
I do get more aggressive in spring when the woods are full of horny wolves, primarily by liberalizing my use of urine. Wandering off again, I also add yellow food coloring to my urine so it looks more like a "real" pee post. Don't know if it helps, but it makes me feel better and doesn't seem to hurt, at least.
Admittedly, I don't have to pull critters far - they're on my snogo trail to begin with. I have pulled cats and fox amazingly long distances with very subtly lured sets, but 90% of my fur was on my trail (which is, BTW, as close as I can get to where they want to be anyway). The main advantage to the very subtle, natural set for me is a great increase in my "bycatch" - I've caught wolves, fox, coyote, wolverine, lynx, marten, mink, otter, and the occasional club-footed ermine in the same set.
I set my trap pretty close the the "backing" (even if the backing is just a smelly stick) and use - you guessed it - subtle guiding. Most of my guiding is done my leaving one really good place to stand at the set - either because the "dip" off my snogo trail is small and crowded, because the trap is a bit lower than the surrounding area, or because I leave "junk" like snowclods around. I probably have 3 or 4 appropriately-sized critters (marten, mink, ermine, and otters are a bit of a crap shoot, but they usually hang around long enough to get caught) a year that visit the set and miss the pan - what I consider a very low miss rate.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 19, 2004 7:03:46 GMT -6
Great post Dusty. Very well written. Hope you continue to post.
"occasional club-footed ermine" LOL
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 19, 2004 8:03:33 GMT -6
Brian, It wasn't that I was determined, that fox played me like a fiddle. I should have conceded after the first few days, after trying everything I knew, she started crapping on my traps, then it became personel. If I was a full time trapper I would have never been able to dedicate so much time to one animal. It was the most satisfying catch of the year though. ;D
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Post by Daubber on Jan 19, 2004 8:11:22 GMT -6
Awesome thread!!! I've already learned something I'm doing that I'll change....the height that I'm placing my lure. I always had it up several inches, I'll start placing it down low now.
Question: on a scent post, how often do you like to freshen up the urine? I've always figured about every 4 days give it another shot, or after snow/rain. Maybe I'm over-doing it.
Thanks guys, this is an awesome thread!!
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Post by Steve Gappa on Jan 19, 2004 9:25:33 GMT -6
I agree. A very good post.
Good post Dusty- I would consider that catch ratio VERY good. You did mention one thing that is one of my "hobby horses"- the amount of lure- but rather than mess this thread up I'll start a new one.
You made the point about nomenclauture that I do agree with- I think Matt Jones said that if you use gland lure and urine- you ARE making a post set- whatever you want to call it.
I was just thinking about what Daubber posted- the height of the lure/urine.
I can see where this is a major probem for me. When I make a flat set, etc- my mindset is one way- lure down, trap tight.. But on post sets... I can see I had a whole other mindset!
What I was thinking- was put the gland lure and/or urine AT THE HEIGHT A COYOTE WOULD HIT IT IF HE PEED ON THE SET.
Duh... ---------------------------------------------
Darn it Dusty- I like the way you discuss things- but you opened so many doors... ;D
Concerning visuals. I think you summed it up very well- you are setting in your snowmobile trails- and you don't NEED visuals. Here, in more settled country- with mostly bare ground trapping for 90% of the season-visuals are a big part of coyote trapping.
and another important point- unless you are trapping on private land- it would be just about impossible to trap in snowmobile trails here. Those suckers are so regulated you HAVE to stay on trails.
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Post by 17kiss on Jan 19, 2004 9:51:37 GMT -6
Once again I have learned. I am with steve have always placed lure and urine where I figured the target K9 would leave marking. Thanks , now I have another tool in my arsenal B , would love to come down a little early and ride along a couple of days with you one of these seasons.
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