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Post by briankroberts on Jan 19, 2004 10:12:19 GMT -6
DJ I hope you got a picture ( of you not the fox I'd like to see your smile) Don't ya love it when a plan finally comes together?? Jim come on down anytime.....B.....
Steve as far as visuals go I had a landowner foolow anlong last week , we rode four wheelers as I was setting traps . At a RR crossing in the fescue field I dug up a clump of wheat stalks about 12" tall and 8" dia. and moved it where the crossing intersected with the field and made a post set, we the went farther down the trail on the way back we could see that clump 100 yds away, the owner commented on how it stood out. Next day he rode along to check , nice Yote standing there.....B.....
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Post by Edge on Jan 19, 2004 10:38:16 GMT -6
The info on here is great stuff,good points all. About urine,unless you are after ONE specific canine,I'm not sure you can over-use it.
Edge
Is a snogo a snomobile,or one of those go-anywhere monstrosities with the steel tracks like a dozer?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 19, 2004 16:29:20 GMT -6
I picked up a big female 2 days ago on a urine gland post set. I like them in travel way corridors, and marking areas, I picked her up on a section of ground, the highest point had a strip of grass 1ft or so tall 10 yrds wide by 50-60 yrds long with a rock pile in it one side was picked corn the other beans, set on the bean side, used a rock from the pile on the edge, smeared gland lure Ogormans and coyote pee on rock trap 8" offset to the right, had a dirthole there as well, passed by it and worked the post set &sterling did it's job well The rock was about the size of a cantalope, looked natural with all the other rocks half buried.
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Post by musher on Jan 19, 2004 21:35:07 GMT -6
I spend a lot of time watching dogs. I don't think that the wild "dogs" are much different. They will investigate and urinate on anything that , to them, stands out. They also seem to agree with each other about what "stands out" means! That's the difficult part for the trapper to figure out. What might stand out to you might not for them.
You either have to find a location where "standing out" is obvious or you have to create one as Stef shows in his photo. In the bush location and "standing out" is fairly easy to find because the fur is located in pockets and the critters often use man made trails to travel. It doesn't seem to be so easy in farmland. I guess that all cornstalks are cut the same as opposed to the variety of vegetation/clumps found on logging roads.
If a trapper uses lure and urine at a post set isn't it just a variation of a double wobble hole? The only difference I see is that the visual is the post as opposed to the holes. Trap placement is a little trickier because the animal doesn't have to shift its feet to smell both smells.
I usually just use urine with any type of post. I have also come to the realization that the best way to make a post "stand out" is to add urine to it! I can sled by an area numerous times without incident. Let one dog mark a tree and it will be remarked everytime we go by after that by as many dogs as I allow. They'll even remember that location and start again a year later. You figure.....
Dusty: You were writing about late season wolves. The latest I have caught any is in February and I have found that the flanks and tails are badly rubbed due to love being in the air. Is your situation the same?
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Post by dj88ryr on Jan 19, 2004 21:42:40 GMT -6
musher, that is very interesting and now has me thinking, do you think fox will act the same way as your dogs? Could I start a line of piss posts, before the season opens and get several fox visiting these posts? Is that cheating? ;D ;D LOL
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Post by trappnman on Jan 19, 2004 21:43:59 GMT -6
I would think so. I guess I'm just hung up on the ole trapper telling " I gave that stick a shot of urine so that the fox would think another pissed there- and when he came up to do the same- I got him!. If there isn't a stick- just get one and plant it in the ground"LOL- my early post sets looked like Charlie Browns Christmas tree sitting by it self in a field. Smal lwonder they never connected. would catch cats though- so I figured I was close... So- I can see that in many ways, a post set is just a flat set variation..esp with a wood block- that would be sameas setting a rock...and I use a lot of grass clumps...but... Say I just wanted to "get a stick a plant it" Whats the best way to go about that?
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Post by uptrapper on Jan 20, 2004 4:48:55 GMT -6
I make my post set using herb lennons method.I find any large stick put it at a 45 degree angle and aply lur and urine to the outward tip pointing towards the trap wich is about 8 inches off the end of the stick I set these along roads very hard to spot.I put the lure and urine at the tip of the stick to keep the coyotes from approaching from the back I use almost no guiding maybe a small pine cone or strawberry plant an old turd if I got one.This the best set I have used and out produces dirtholes for me.I have caught coyotes,fox,cats,fishers ,a badger and coon at these type sets .I hope ace dont mind me using his fathers name on here.Hope it helps.
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Post by musher on Jan 20, 2004 14:53:56 GMT -6
DJ88: I have seen where fox and wolf have used the same scent post. It doesn't happen often. The fox was a female. (I caught it and the fox tracks dried up at that post.)The wolves were a pack! I have seen dog/fox/wolf use the same scent post. I have seen wolf/dog use the same post.
I don't know if I would have faith in a fox regularily using a dog scent post. I would have faith in a wolf regularily, every time it comes through, using a dog scent post. I'm not a coyote guy as I have more fingers than caught coyotes but from what you guys write dogs mess up coyote traps so.....
I would have faith in establishing a fox scent post and expect another fox to mark it regularily. A little urine goes a long way. Get the fox in the habit and it should work. It isn't cheating it's trapline preparation! Just like the snare guys do with large baits. The reason why it doesn't work so well with lures is because the curiousity element is eliminated once the critter has a good sniff.
Something new to try!
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Post by Dusty on Jan 20, 2004 14:59:18 GMT -6
Concerning visuals. I think you summed it up very well- you are setting in your snowmobile trails- and you don't NEED visuals. Here, in more settled country- with mostly bare ground trapping for 90% of the season-visuals are a big part of coyote trapping.
Not only that, but big showy sets jump some critters off my trail. I'd bet they do the same on bare ground, you just can't see every track as I can here.
and another important point- unless you are trapping on private land- it would be just about impossible to trap in snowmobile trails here.
OK, but you can trap where the critters are likely to be anyway - I assume they use some sort of trail (even if that just means wandering down a narrowish draw) there, too.
About urine,unless you are after ONE specific canine,I'm not sure you can over-use it.
I am, at least in mid-winter. Maybe I just have paranoid fox though.
Is a snogo a snomobile,or one of those go-anywhere monstrosities with the steel tracks like a dozer?
Snowmobile.
They will investigate and urinate on anything that , to them, stands out.
Important concept here - to them. Not necessarily the same things that catch the eye of half-frozen trappers running by several feet higher and with a much different way of looking at things. And "stands out" means "the next critter along here is probably gonna see that too," not "holy hell, you could see that from orbit!" (as proven by the failed gas can set).
The latest I have caught any is in February and I have found that the flanks and tails are badly rubbed due to love being in the air.
yea, they start getting uglier in mid-Feb or therabouts, but still are saleable.
All in all, I think critters here are more paranoid about anthropogenic changes than critters in more populated areas. However, I'd bet a significant portion of the "trapshy" or "smart" critters I read about could easily be taken in more subtle sets, post or otherwise.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 20, 2004 15:16:41 GMT -6
I think more "trapshy" coyotes are sitting in the next set more often than not.
I believe and the evidence here shows trapshy coyotes AVOID the set/trap- they don't play with it.
A subtle set OR a different set. A well made flat set is about as subtle a set as you can make.
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Heres a tangent for you Dusty- give me your thoughts. Here in MN- we have ruffed grouse. In the southern hill valleys- the grouse are like you read about- spooky, spooky- shots are snap shooting at best. More are heard than seen.
In the Arrowhead- same grouse, same look, same everything to my eye- completely different. They act like "fools hens". You can literally walk up to the tree they are sitting in and shoot them thatway. Many hunters up there use .22 for grouse. Thats just the way it is- these grouse almost will not fly.
Why? somesay- these grouse have never seen humans until hunting season. Well, in the valleys down here- the same is true. It has to be genetic.
It has been proven that pheasants, rabbits in heavy hunted areas develop into different strains. The rabbits become almost nocturnal -holing up in the daytime and pheasants become runners not flyers when flushed. -------------------------------------------
So is this why the diffence i ncoyote behavior/ Or is it territory size and the sharing with humans? With 60-70% of the coyotes in the fall-being young of the year- how do habits get ingrained?
Some think down here coyotes aren't spooky and are easy to catch- and they can be. but people I know that trap wolves say wolves are very easy- they have no fear so are bold.
But they can be very spooky-and care and skill is needed. But they does seem different as to WHAT is important. That is- what spooks YOUR canines wouldn't phase ours- and what ours go through the roof at- is life as usual for yours.
But canines are still canines- and lessons learn from one can be applied to all.
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Post by Woodsmoke on Jan 20, 2004 15:42:43 GMT -6
I caught more fox in post sets this year than I ever have in the past. The biggest reason being that I made more post sets this year than I ever have in the past. This year I put a post set at almost every set location! I never did this in the past - I'd put a post in every once in awhile, but for the most part it was two dirtholes and move on. Well, seeing as how I couldn't get out of the 2 dirtholes routine, I just added a post to every location (ahhh, the joys of having plenty of traps). The thing that kind of surprised me was what they were caught on - coyote urine. I'd never used yote urine before (we don't have many yet) but decided to try it this year. So much for the "Coyote urine scares fox" theory! Yes it was more work to add the extra set, but it paid off in catches that I am not sure that I'd have gotten otherwise. Could I have done the same with just a dirthole and a post? Maybe, but I'm too hard headed to quit what I like to do, so I'll just work a little harder. Gonna get some more yote pee too!
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Post by Dusty on Jan 20, 2004 16:05:01 GMT -6
It's a fairly new thought, and I'm way out of my league here, but I think there is something to "genetic memory." Maybe your "tame" grouse have never been hunted in the past, while your "spooky" grouse have some genetic memory of being hunted 10 or 100 or 1000 years ago.
You can see something similar with fox here, but it seems to be closely related to elevation and/or harsh climate (because it was hard to get higher/out on the tundra and "teach" them when the memory was being formed??). Fox where I trap (flats) are much like fox anywhere else - they aren't mental giants, but you aren't going to catch too many of them using gas cans as backing either. Mountain fox are a different critter - I've caught them in 330s in rock cubbies, and I know of one guy who caught something like 100 in 55gal barrels he'd spent a summer hauling in for wolverine.
Wolves here are anything but tame and/or stupid. Their huge weakness is being a social animal - also the biggest exception to the "a canid is a canid" theory.
Coyotes here don't seem to have the turnover rate yours do. One group of tagged animals (foothills of the AK range) hasn't reproduced in 4 years now - the adults are doing fine, but seems they need bunnies to make babies.
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Post by Stef on Jan 20, 2004 20:44:15 GMT -6
[shadow=red,left,300]MUSHER said, I have seen dog/fox/wolf use the same scent post. I have seen wolf/dog use the same post.[/shadow]
That's why I would like to have a good trappin dog!
Stef
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Post by musher on Jan 21, 2004 5:35:39 GMT -6
I don't know about wolves being "easy." Trappers around here find them to be the most difficult. Maybe I'm just not a good trapper. One thing is certain you must be patient. And catching them is very different from holding them.
I find that wolves have two main character dispositions. Extremely bold and extremely shy. The bold ones get caught at the large bait piles (very often on the way out with a full, distracted belly) and the shy ones turn themselves inside out backing up once they see a human track in the snow. You have to be pretty clever, or lucky, to skin those ones.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 21, 2004 8:24:50 GMT -6
I didn't mean "easy"- I guess I meant bold. Trappers in Northern Minnesota tell me that wolves up there are bold in regards to traps.
Of course- the "shy" ones would be gone and not work the set.
But those trappers AREN"t targeting wolves- wolves are an unwanted incidental.
Since we have trappers here that target wolves- I'm curious- are coyotes more "spooky" than wolves? Visa versa?
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Post by redfoxtrapper on Jan 21, 2004 8:32:42 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]All, this is great information through the knowledge and use of others. I will remember all of these little tidbits and methods on my line. Old school trapping can't be beat!!! [/glow]
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Post by Appleknocker on Jan 21, 2004 10:21:10 GMT -6
I agree, GREAT STUFF! you have mentioned three different type sets; dirt hole, flat and post. No one has said anything about the distance you set the trap from the hole, backing or burned wood. ( maybe one said they put the trap tight to the post or was that the urine or lure?) Well anyway, is the trap distance the same for all three type sets?? I have my opinion but then I am not as productive on coyotes as I should be. I talked with Ace some time ago about his version of the post set and he puts his pre-made posts right in his dye with traps. Anybody have any strong feelings if a burned post would be better or same as a dyed post??
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Post by Dusty on Jan 21, 2004 11:25:35 GMT -6
Since we have trappers here that target wolves- I'm curious- are coyotes more "spooky" than wolves? Visa versa?
Vice-versa, big time. Think possums and coyotes. With, of course, the occasional retarded wolf thrown in to make us dummies keep trying.
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Post by Edge on Jan 21, 2004 12:15:52 GMT -6
Appleknocker, I prolly shouldn't speak for Asa,but I believe the inclusion of pee-posts to his dye,was to assist in "aging" the wood...in lieu of letting it age naturally.
Edge PS Nice to see you here.
PPS Burnt wood smells like burnt wood forever to a coyote,from what I know(which ain't much)the stink is just as much of a draw as the blackened wood,just works on the second sense.
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Post by briankroberts on Jan 21, 2004 13:37:28 GMT -6
I cut and sell firewood, while doing so I'm always on the lookout for the special looking small stump or piece of driftwood. I have brought many of these home over the years and charred them and then took them to the woods and placed them in special locations. I leave them from year to year and some have produced for a few years. One is a split stump that was about a 8" diameter tree it lays flat and has a root about 14" long that sticks straight up. It produced 2 Yotes this year and has produced for three years, It'll be a sad day when its gone. Some are gone the next year when I come back and some have been carried off a ways. These are good for places where you just can't pick the right location as they really stand out.....B.....
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