Cable restraints,whats your take on this.

[blakcoyote]

Heres a correspondence between our furbearer biologist in WI,Mr.Olsen.His response is in blue.Some things I see are good and some not.The first part he responded inside my letter.All his words are in blue.

From: Duane
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:46 AM
To: Olson
Subject: Re: Cable restraints


Mr.Olsen,
Thanks for yor reply.A few points in your letter is disturbing.Our cable restraint season is Jan.-Feb. and fail to see it's effect on bear or bird hunters since these season's are closed.
Two big reasons: Initially we needed their support to even get approval of the use of cable restraints on dryland after their seasons closed. Secondly, we have folks that would like to expand the cable restraint season into the fall which, if we ever get to this point, will require full buy-in from these user groups.
Secondly,the states following our lead,that already have regs in place stand to lose a great part of there liberities in snaring due to the political correctness of the WI. regs by using us as a model.

Disagree wholeheartedly. Missouri now has cable restraints - never had snaring on dryland - legally. Pennsylvania and Vermont - both now have cable restraints on dryland and never before had snaring - legally. Minnesota is in the process of expanding cable restraints into the farmland region. They only have legal snaring in the northern forest lands and will never have snaring in farm country due to domestics. States in southeastern U.S. are now working with us and their biologists to get this new tool - and snaring on dryland has been illegal. Punch line: Cable restraints are a new tool being added in those states where snaring is not now legal and probably never will be.
What cable restraints have done is open new opportunities for states to use an additional tool - based on sound science. I envision that in future years western states who now have snaring as a legal tool may consider adding cable restraints to their tool box as the urban issues begin to become more of a management challenge. Cable restraints work well where you have a domestic pet issue. Having both cable restraints and snares in the same state is possible and practical. Wisconsin currently has both. If cable restraints are set properly you miss house cats, and if you catch dogs you just let them go, no injury.

I appreciate your help in this.I'm a member of the WTA as well.And would like to know how to get involved with this thing as well.Science has been a friend to trappers in this state for a good long time,and I'm starting to see it could very well lead to it's demise as we know it when political correctness is thrown in the mix.There has been talk and rightly so,that this cable restraint business that is spreading,with the use of testing and science.Could very well spell the end for the foothold in the future,being that the cable restraint being deemed as totally humane,which it is,but lacks full functional usefulness in it's design,compared to the plain snare.

Respectfully disagree. The foothold is still one of the most important restraint tools we have. We need them and have done the science to support continued use of many of them - injury scores and efficiencies are very good for most species and for most footholds. Granted they don't work well when set under weather conditions that result in snow, then freezing rain, then more snow, etc. It was for this reason we even looked into cable restraints in Wisconsin. Adding a tool where one becomes less efficient. In reality, cable restraints have now extended canine trapping seasons for many trappers.

What additional items would the snare have that a cable restraint does not? Actually, the opposite is true. Cable restraints require more bells and whistles, require additional thought and responsibility in setting, and hold not only domestics but target species alive and well until the trapper arrives. Snares have fewer gadgets on them, easier to set and if set properly for a kill, kill quickly. Snares are an important tool in western settings and they need them. In the open, back country, cable restraints would be the wrong thing to use due to longer trap checks and humaneness - where there is no chance of domestics, a quick kill is the best tool out there.

Again,I would like to know how I can become involved with this,and hopefully see it benefit all trapping and not render trapping as a less than adequate management tool.

Contact anyone on the CC line to become more involved. Would suggest considering attending your local WTA district rendezvous that will occur this summer - check the Wisconsin Trapper or the Trapper and Predator for dates and locations. Also the annual membership meeting of the WTA which normally occurs in March in Wausau is an excellent way to become involved.

MI right now is in the process of following our lead,and the trappers there are not happy,they do have other issues with the dog hunters,but thats another story,with hidden agendas.

Michigan is unique. It's the worst thing for the future of hound hunting and trapping to have two user groups pitted against each other over sharing a resource. The legal briefs filed by the hound group will only come back to haunt them and all other future use of natural resources in Michigan - if they win. Anti groups are loving this.

When it comes to cable restraints, Michigan is the one exception to a totally happy beginning. They were in a hurry and went with cable restraints without the opportunity to wait until we finished our three year study. Problems for them are basically entanglement and trap check requirements. They're in the process of amending some of their regulations.

Sorry I've been long winded, but more sorry I allowed my email directory to get out of hand. Lots of old messages to address in short order. Thanks for your interest. Cheers

Respectfully,
Duane

----- Original Message -----
From: Olson
To: Duane
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:37 PM
Subject: RE: Cable restraints


Thanks for the attached. I'm in Green Bay right now and have to get back to an evening program, so this will be short. Wisconsin has been a leader in breaking ground on cable restraints and many states have used our lead and research as reasons to do the same. WTA can be proud of being leaders in this often criticized event. Our cable restraint season and specific components were the result of solid research using the research protocol of the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies in their BMP's for Trapping effort. We tested the best components recommended to us by snare manufacturers and snaremen. "Cable restraint" terminology was developed as a result of our specific need in Wisconsin and is catching on with other states. Wisconsin has snares and cable restraints.

We (WTA and department) met in March to discuss the next stage of both cable restraint use in Wisconsin and additional components to consider. We're in the process of contacting all of these snare manufacturers for their advice on additional tools to consider if we decide to continue testing - which depends on both our funding and decisions by the International.



But remember, we have the world watching us right now - the public with their pets, bear hunters with their hounds, bird hunters with the bird dogs. Before we take off on additional tools and devices we have to show them (these groups) that what we have already is safe, selective, humane and won't damage their pets. Everyone who has used these tools in Wisconsin is excited about them and eager to expand season length, species and tools. We need to go forward, but with care and concern lest we lose all we've worked so hard to get. Hang in there, we're working on this topic. Have to run. Cheers

Furbearer Specialist
Wildlife Liaison - County Forests/Treaty
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources

[edge]

I'll give you a Buffalo Nickel if you change that color.......

Edge

[mike692]

edge said:

I'll give you a Buffalo Nickel if you change that color.......

Edge

Since Duane's not online I took the liberty of changing it. Is pink any better? ;D

[edge]

Thanks,Man,the other color was a blurry smudge.Couldnt read a friggin word before.

FWIW;the guy sounds like the typical mealy mouthed dikwad that would sit on the NRC board here in MI.

They *need* the support of dog user groups(and I'll finish his sentence)MONEY.

I hope all of them(dumbazzes) have heart attacks in the woods and have their guts eaten out by a coyote while they are still alive.

Well,I dont care if its coyotes;it can be a feral deer-running hound too.

[blakcoyote]

I'll give you a Buffalo Nickel if you change that color.......

LOL!
Thanks Mike,I never thought pink had a good use. ;D

But yeah,I hear you Edge.It seems some are of the idea of idiot proofing everything.The statement about having snares and CR's is true,but snares are only allowed in water here.And I'm guessing it would mean the same when the issues for other states coud have both.

Another observation I had,was if the BMP's are to support what we do,why didnt it work in MI,instead of crippling the use of snares and CR's.

[trappnman]

MN snaring has NOTHING to do with WI's cable restraints. Thus the tern...snaring.

Ask him why he thinks- as stated in a WI DNR letter- that "very few took advantage of the cable restraints"

Why pretend to give a tool...then make it so restricted that it has no merit.

bet very few shot their elephant this year either......

[thebeav2]

I'm not around In WI during the CR season but my buddy who had never caught a coyote or fox before,caught 25 coyotes the first year and 36 last season.So for a first timer with CRs he did pretty dam good. And he only ran about 50 CRs so with a hundred who knows how many he would have caught. So they do work. He did have some BADs fail so his count would have been higher.

But he could have caught just as many with snares.

Gary

[MChewk]

'In response to Beavs post....AND....probably have had fewer problems.

[trappnman]

he should contact the dnr- probably holds the yearly record in WI for CR yotes.

funny with all the "no problems" restraints make...that those states that do have SNARING aren't falling all over themselves to adopt the WI bmps.

[blakcoyote]

What I dont get,is the people that tote the CR is the best thing since sliced bread.But there failure rate from what I hear is higher.It doesnt make sense to me,that something that cost more to make or buy is inferior than the real Mcoy.Like I said I havent used them but plan on it this winter.I have used snares for beave and otter for quite awhile now and never had a loss,even on a live catch,which has been many.So I do have some idea of the damage a snare can endure.But coyotes,I think have alot more power.I'll know more when I catch them,and I know I will.I just dont know how frustrating it's going to be.And this is another thing that concerns me about the BMP's,over regulation,which in time becomes counter productive.In the letter above,excuses are made for the regs.CR's use in the winter is restricted because we may have a fall CR season,when bear and bird hunters are more active and they need there support.But it still doesnt take away from the fact these people arent out there during the winter with there dogs,so why not have use of snares,and if there is a fall snaring season,then use the CR's,just two different types of seasons if that is there concern.How hard is that to figure out.The season's open in the fall and closed in the late winter have no bearing on the winter,but it's used as an excuse.

[robertw]

The failoure rate of Cable Restraints in some areas (like Northern Missouri) is nearly 100% with coyotes. The only way trappers can make the 285 pound BADS hold are to "modify".

The need for a breakaway device system in Missouri is a "non-issue" as it is illegal to set any trap where livestock are present.

[nib420247]

If the cable restraintes take your right to snare then I am sorry but to us whare a snare is not an option I hope that the cable restraintes become an option....I could catch the bulk of the coon earlier then as soon as the snow has set in to freeze up my footholds and keep them burried constantly I could load up the sled with cable and place them in trails along the way.....that sounds like my idea of heaven, me using cable any way possible, and legal

[robertw]

Cable restraints work VERY WELL on coon! Just not recomended by the BMPs since they have no data on raccoons.

Some Cable Restraint regulations state that the device must be set at least 6" off of the ground. To properly neck snare raccoons I have more luck setting the bottom of the loop 7" off of the ground.