BMP's and incidentals?

[blakcoyote]

So how does the incidental catches factor in to this whole process.When these BMP's first came about,I thought this could be a good thing,bringing about better traps and techniques.Now I'm getting skeptical,because,when you figure how each species is different and the bmp's are testing each seperately.I the real world,a coyote trap is going to catch a coon or skunk occasionally,and the trap probably wont meet the criteria for these incidental's,and probably never will.So what I'm wondering,with people who dont actually trap,involved in this.That will there come a time when this BMP process is gonna blowup in our face.Could it actually lead to more restrictions on what we do,say like,trap A is the coyote trap,but is not a coon trap or skunk trap,and being these animals exist in location 2 with coyotes,trap A cannot be used,but trap B can,but wont hold a coyote,but is friendly to the incidentals.So your stuck with an inferior piece of equipment for what your intended target is or nothing at all.I'm all for improvements,and not trying to start anything,but how do we prevent being crippled by this or getting out of hand.Just some thoughts I had after reading the skunk bmp thread.I ran in to a guy yesterday and we got talking about this stuff a little and his first statement to me was,you gotta be kind before you crack them in the head or put a bullet in em'.It does sound funny when you think about it.

[trappnman]

Thats called suite trapping blakcoyote. It means that although you are trapping coyotes, you might catch a lot of other types of animals in that trap.

For example, if you set a 1.5 coil and say "fox trap"...and catch a coon, then thats ok with the bmps because you are "suite" trapping.

But if you set a 1.5 coil and say "coon trap" that trap is not acceptable according to the bmps.

Same coon. Same trap. Same set. Same everything.

Those of us in the farm belt know that a coyote set can easily take a coyote, fox, coon, possum, badger or skunk
on a daily basis. And do.

Its hard to reconcile suite trapping with a true concern for an animals welfare.

Will we get to the point like Canada- where it is ILLEGAL to set a foothold for coon- but LEGAL to harvest a coon taken in any other foothold set?

And while that is certainly benifical to trapprs- and indeed the only practical way to approach things- what message does that send.

How can suite trapping be defended by quoting bmp results to those that are opposed to trapping?

[Hamilton]

Does sound kinda funny. But not to the general public, who we need to say, "trapping is OK to continue."

The BMP program is simply trying to do the best job we can of helping trappers to make decisions on a trap line, or for biologists to make decisions in a management program involving trapping.

It is trapper education. It is not regulations .. . for many reasons, and multiple species in a trap type is foremost among them.

Everyone understands that trappers can be selective to a point, but a canine trapper is faced with catching canines and at the same time reducing injuries to coyotes and dogs, but he will also regularly catch red fox, gray fox, bobcat, and other furbearers, namely opossum, striped skunk, and raccoons.

Pan tension devices can limit some of this, but won't entirely eliminate them. Trap location will help some, as will lures and baits, but not entirely.

One of the ways we are attempting to deal with this is to look at Suites of animals that trappers often trap together ... in the west, it is coyotes and bobcats, in the Northeast, it is coyotes and red foxes. In some water trapping, it can be beaver and otter, or raccoons, mink, and muskrat....etc etc.

Some of these combinations can be dealt with using a few trap types .... beaver and otter in 330 conibears, 280 conibears, and a lot of different footholds on drowner wires.....

Coyotes and bobcats in the west .... a lot of traps will make this one..... coyotes and red foxes in the east .... also a few traps will work great.

Raccoons and anything else as a suite is more difficult, but not without a few choices. In restraining traps, double jaw traps will work. Conibears will work for some in some states.

First, lets get back to our goal of why we are trying to achieve with BMPs ..... we are using the process of building BMPs to show the public that state fish and wildlife agencies are appropriately dealing with their question of animal welfare in trapping. They don't bother themselves with the details of which traps are used for which animals, etc.... like a trapper and a biologist will.
They want to know, do we care, and are we taking appropriate steps to make sure we are considering animal welfare to the most practical point that we can.

Secondly, BMPs will be used in trapper education programs. Young trappers learning about trapping for the first time will be open to new ideas and new products, and some more seasoned trappers might as well.

BMPs are meant to help reduce injuries for traps that are set for intended, primary species. NO trap will work for them all, and we are not setting standards so strict as to limit choices for primary species just because that trap didn't fare as well on the secondary species.

A good example might be the coyote traps that are now identified as BMP traps in eastern states. One of the best is the No. 3 Coil spring, offset jaw. laminated top and bottom, 4-coiled. It did fantastic on coyotes, just wouldn't be the trap of choice if the trapper knew that red foxes would make up a substantial amount of the animals taken on his line.

Instead, the trapper might want to try using .... a No. 1.75, or a 1.75 Offset Laminated, or the 1 3/4, Flat offset jaw trap, or perhaps, the Bridger No. 2 Coil-Spring, offset, laminated, (4 coiled). There is also a padded trap that work for both coyotes and red foxes..... No. 3 Padded, 4-coiled.

So bottom line again.... traps that make both lists for a couple of furbearers taken on the same line might be candidates for "suite" traps. Nothing more.

As I see it, the directions in the trapper education manual coming from the BMP program should say ...." A trapper might want to consider using traps from this list ...."

Idealist, maybe.

[trappnman]

A good post Dave-

as some one once said to me - "I listen to what you say... I don't always agree to it, but I listen"