Why BMPs- Raccoon BMP data- and issues

[Hamilton]

Well, I’m the new kid on the block- ‘been around awhile but may not be familiar to all of you. I spent the majority of the day yesterday getting up to speed with the BMP discussions on this discussion board. Read 30 pages or more- and as I expected, the vocal pro-BMP crowd is quite small and in the minority opinion. That is OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the effects of BMPs on the future of trapping. Opposing opinions are fine, especially when they are based on good and accurate information…. Not so good when they are based on rumor, hearsay, and fiction. In the absence of information- rumors abound. I hope to help the discussions by providing you with another perspective, and any information I can provide. Not everything I read yesterday is true.

I thought it would be more convenient to start a new thread, since I might be the only biologist currently working on BMPs on this site at this time. That way, I can do the best I can at providing information and fielding specific questions- I’ll only be able to jump on here every few days, so don’t get too excited if it takes awhile for me to respond.

First, let me say that I am pro- BMP, but I don’t have high expectations about what they will accomplish or not accomplish. They are not the Silver Bullet, and will not likely win any ballot initiative about banning trapping in any state. I do think they will have a much more positive effect for the future of trapping than they will a negative effect. If they are used together with a well-done and coordinated information campaign, they will be even better (images like some of those in the new NTA video- Destroying the Myth are also powerful visual images).

Let me explain. I work for a state fish and wildlife agency- the Missouri Department of Conservation. I have worked as a furbearer biologist for 21 years, and have seen the world change in that short time span. The state fish and wildlife agencies are the best ally that trappers have, and at the same time, uninformed wildlife biologists/Federal agencies/Universities where the future biologists are trained- are one of the biggest threats to the future of trapping.

Why? Because most students entering the field of wildlife conservation come from a non-hunting and trapping background, and they believe all the same things about trapping as do the general public. And why not? They see the same things everyone else sees on the TV and in newspapers/magazines… “trapping is cruel and isn’t necessary for wildlife management.” And no one is telling them anything different in any forum that has credibility. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, they have credibility with the public, just by their position and the reputation of the agencies that they work for.

We need a bridge to the scientifically-trained, yet poorly informed biologists. They are the leaders of your fish and wildlife agencies of tomorrow. That ought to concern you. We surveyed them in 1996 and found that 50% of the membership of our professional natural resource managers would favor BANNING all foot-hold traps. Because they think it is inhumane and unnecessary, and that alternatives exist for the few times animals must be captured. A majority supported trapping as a wildlife management tool but were completely misled by the propaganda about foot-hold traps. That is where BMPs and the science behind them will be most valuable.

BMPs, when presented to the trained wildlife biologist, help most to change their minds about trapping. They don’t have to understand all of the subtleties and the nuances about trap testing that you all are concerned about, but they do understand scientific approaches to investigation, and although at first surprised by the findings, most are convinced that we have the needed evidence to now support trapping. We are currently putting on agency training programs across the United States to tell our own staffs about the role of trapping, the evidence that modern, regulated trapping does consider the welfare of the trapped animal, that trappers care about the animals they depend upon, and that the agencies need the trappers. We then spent a couple of hours training them on how to communicate effectively with the non-trapping public… and how not to. These workshops are called “Trapping Matters”. We held three last year and trained 360 MDC staff…. Many said it was the best in-house training they’ve been to. Insist that your state agency use “Trapping Matters” in their training programs, especially the law enforcement and public relations folks….and wildlife biologists.

BMPs are meant to be guidelines to use and a convenient list of traps that could be easily incorporated into trapper education manuals. THEY SHOULD NOT BE MANDATED- THEY SHOULD NOT BECOME TRAPPING REGULATIONS.

Can they be>? Yes, I guess they CAN be ... but that is why we went with BMPs, to make it trapper education -based... but that is where many of the fears come from … and I understand that. But on the other hand…. For 20-30 years, there has been plenty of scientific evidence in the literature that showed that padded traps reduced injury, (they didn’t do it like we’d have preferred, but it is there)… evidence that 25-40% of the raccoons chew their toes in the No 1 ½ coil spring trap…. Etc, etc…. all of this was already in the scientific literature… and we didn’t see state agencies all of a sudden banning conventional traps (Tenn the exception). ..of course, Colorado is a nightmare. What happened there could have been avoided- they bowed under pressure, and if BMPs were there, someone with a spine could have warded off what they did to trappers… just my opinion.

OK- so we can’t trust all of the states to do the right thing… so what do we do? Nothing? Meanwhile, state agency Directors have been saying to us for a long time… guys, get your sh-t together- or else the public will.

BMPs are only useful to trapping and to trappers if your agency uses them properly, and that is to gain and maintain credibility with their public – the agencies have to work proactively to gain support and trust of the majority of the public in your state, so that when (not if) HSUS or PETA comes to put the ballot initiative in front of your citizens, the citizens will say… “that is an appropriate decision for our Fish and Game agency to decide…. We trust them to do the right thing”- and say NO to the ballot initiative before it even gets to a vote… once you have a ballot initiative- I’m not sure you can use BMPs very effectively. BMPs give your agency the balls they need to stand up on your behalf.

I'll split this posting into 2-3 pieces.... later.

[Hamilton]

Now for some science ….

First, let me say that we have the same standards for weasel, for mink, for ‘coons, wolves, etc etc… some may say they each need their own threshold… NTA did not want separate thresholds… maybe a few spokespeople voiced it at one time, but soon all were convinced that approach is full of holes and would weaken the credibility, not strengthen it… how does one species deserve more compassion than another, behavior aside? Hard to debate that one very long in front of the public.

Where that differs is when it comes to submersion …. Setting a foot-hold trap in a fashion that the animal will dive to escape danger, and cannot emerge above the water. We recognize that beaver, muskrats, mink, and otter are very comfortable in an aquatic environment, and that the act of drowning these animals is an appropriate trapping technique. Ahhhh… raccoons? Some say yes, some say no. That’s where we are on that one for now. Even split. In the end, I don’t think it is a big issue. Some states allow it, some promote it. To each their own. It isn’t solvable through science at this time…. It comes down to perception. Raccoons don’t dive under water readily to escape danger …. Yes, given the correct setting, they will go down… but not readily. Personally- I’m fine with submersion for raccoons.

What we’ve said from the beginning is that we’ll focus our research primarily on restraining devices… Canada will help us determine how long it takes for animals to die in killing-type devices (they have their own thresholds- some are like ours – some are not)… the science is useful… we will share our data with them.

From the very beginning, we said that BMPs will include all restraining systems that we think are appropriate (including snares), killing-type traps, and submersion systems where appropriate.

If you doubt this, send me your address, and I’ll send you the report we did in 1996 to start the program.

OK, lastly before we get into the data. To understand the science, you need to read how the research was done… I am going to assume you know a little about this- if not, I may need to post the essence elsewhere….

I want to defend the trappers …. Steve and others have accused the BMP trappers of being novice trappers…. Some may have only 10 years or so of experience…. But some have 40 or even 50 years of experience… the raccoon trappers were from all walks of trapping, but most were 300- 1000 ‘coon/season trappers, and some are annually taking upwards of 1200 raccoons each. I’ll stake their reputations on the BMP science. These are very good coon men…. And most of them said, “yes, I’ve seen ‘coons chew before, but I bet mine don’t”….. these guys set 70 – 100 traps on opening day, and most have 35-45 ‘coons waiting the next morning … day after day… I’ve been on their lines, and I’ll stack them up against anyone- any day. They are not “novices”<br>
We have tried a lot of ideas to reduce ‘coon chewing…. And I personally welcome your ideas. We’ve tried a lot… some work… some don’t.

Here’s the data:

We have done a ton of raccoon work, and below I have posted the majority of it for you to look at. Most of this work is available in our various progress reports ... I think there are 4-5 trap types where I do not have the 95% Confidence Intervals accessible to me at this time ... for them, I have posted the ave. cumulative trauma scores and the % Efficiency only.

"DJ" means double jaw ... some older traps had them at one time, to keep animals from chewing to the point where they would escape (skunks back in their heyday) ... the idea now is to limit access to the feet of raccoons to reduce the damage they can sometimes do. It worked pretty well- and we’ve tested a variety of designs… my guess is we’ll see manufacturers coming out soon with double jaw traps again that meet our specs, and some kits that will allow trappers to modify their own traps … re-tooling is expensive and we want to pursue all workable alternatives as well as see new traps being adopted by trappers.

The information is given in this order:

Trap Type ...* indicates it meets all 5 BMP criteria
Lower 95% CI
Ave. Cumulative Injury..... threshold < 55 points
Upper 95% CI
% Capture/Opportunity
Sample Size

1.5 Coil-MW
90.6
105.1
119.6
86.2 %
84

1.5 Coil- SE
73.5
87.4
101.3
83.6 %
87

1.5 Coil 6" chain
69.7
92.5
115.3
76.3 %
38

1.5 Coil 30" chain
62.2
83.7
105.2
87.0%
34

1.5 Laminated SE
64.6
76.0
87.4
78.5%
108

1.5 DJ MW*
44.6
53.4
62.2
74.9%
121

1.5 DJ weak MW
40.3
57.9
75.6
72.6%
35

1.5 DJ wk w/stake SE
44.3
59.3
74.2
65.5%
45

1.5 DJ weak w/drag SE
56.2
72.9
89.5
62.0%
39

1.5 Padded MW
78.1
92.2
106.3
76.5%
76

1.5 Padded SE
49.4
63.2
77.0
71.2%
83

1.0 Coil SE*
43.3
54.0
64.7
69.8%
89

1.0 Laminated SE
52.0
63.6
75.2
65.3%
84

1.0 Padded MW
34.8
54.8
74.8
52.5%
30

1.0 Padded SE
22.9
36.2
49.5
44.8%
46

11 Longspring MW
63.6
73.1
82.6
88.0%
139

11 DJ Offset MW*
36.3
46.1
55.9
67.2%
92

11 DJ MW
51.4
68.7
86.0
71.4%
46

11 DJ w/drag SE
78.3
95.9
113.4
79.2%
58

11 DJ w/stake SE
74.1
91.2
108.3
90.9%
65

EGG trap MW*
38.2
47.8
57.4
98.7%
90

EGG trap SE*
36.1
44.9
53.7
96.5%
71

Duffer trap SE*
29.1
35.3
41.5
98.9%
97

Cage trap MW*
8.6
13.6
18.6
95.0%
112

Black Hole- W/ 1.5 Coil spring
34.4
54.0 ... only meets part of BMP criteria- only 52% of sample had only mild or moderate injuries- needs to be > 70%
73.6
83.3%
23

Lil Grizz Getrz- 1st Edition- weaker springs*
11.3
26.0
40.7
94.1%
24

Lil Grizz Getrz- 2nd Edition- stronger springs*
--
46.7
--
98.5%
67

15Double Jaw- Laminated ...modification design by J. C. Conners*
--
47.0
--
72.5%
22

15DJ Flat Offset modification design by J. C. Conners*
--
40.8
--
86.2%
23

15DJFO- 4-coiled modification design by J. C. Conners*
--
38.5
--
86.3%
26

*************************
Now... a side study and more about raccoons in entanglement.....

[Hamilton]

*************************

NTA Study of No. 1 ½ Coil Spring- NTA Protocols-

Finally, we conducted yet another study of raccoons in the No 1 ½ coil spring, this time according to a modified protocol ...NTA protocol to see if trappers could improve the performance of the trap in carefully-controlled settings… here’s the essence:

The premise was that we needed to test techniques, not traps… so NTA wrote their own protocol, trying ideas that other trappers have been suggesting a long time… sound familiar to anyone?

The following procedures were followed by trappers using both the standard and modified protocol:

• Traps were corner-chained, all sharp edges were filed smooth, and traps were properly tuned and treated by one trap modification specialist... J. C. Conners.
• Woody vegetation or other sources of potential entanglement were cleared from the trap location in order to prevent entanglement of captured animals.
• Traps were staked so that captured animals were able to remain out of the water.

Field Procedures Specific to the Standard Protocol

• Trappers were allowed to use a bait and/or lure of choice.
• Trappers were allowed to use set type of choice, in shallow water only.
• Trappers placed stations along their normal operating traplines.

Field Procedure Specific to the Modified Protocol

• Pocket sets were the only sets used; traps were all set in similar fashion, depth of pan in water, orientation to pocket, etc.
• Canned Jack Mackerel bait was used at all sets.
• Carman’s “Raccoon Lure No. 2” was used at all sets.
• All traps were set so that animals would step between the trap jaws, rather than over them.
• Traps were set only in areas where disturbance to captured animals was minimized ...e.g., inaccessible to the public, unlikely to encounter free-ranging dogs, unlikely to encounter farm/construction equipment or vehicles.
• Cover, if not naturally present, was placed at all trap sites.
• Both trappers were trained by one trapping expert from the NTA on specific methods to avoid stressful set conditions, including entanglement, and other methods to reduce stress for captured raccoons.

Another purpose of this side-study was to measure the animal welfare performance of three trap types, including the standard No. 1 ½ coil spring with minor modifications. All traps were equipped with 30-inch chains and three universal swivels. Traps tested were:

• 1 ½ coil-spring trap with standard springs 0.135 and corner-mounted chain
• 1 ½ coil-spring trap with light springs 0.125 and corner-mounted chain
• 1 ½ coil-spring trap with double-jaws foot-guards, one straight, standard springs 0.135, and corner-mounted chain


Trap Type
Lower 95% CI
Ave. Cumulative Injury Threshold < 55 points
Upper 95% CI
Sample Size

1.5 C w/ 0.135 springs
74.2
87.4
100.6
82.9%
73

1.5 C w/ 0.125 spr.
85.1
98.5
112.0
79.5%
76

1.5 C –DJ- one straight bar
57.6
71.8
86.0
87.2%
76

The bottom line- trappers using the NTA protocol averaged 86.2 points (need 55 or less), and trappers using the standard BMP protocol averaged 85.7. No difference.

I understand some here think that by getting the raccoons entangled, that they will stay occupied chewing on other things and not themselves… made sense to me too. However, the data does not support the theory. Bottom line is about 25- 40% of raccoons are chewers- and they will if they can. If they get really wrapped up, they tend to focus on the trap and the feet-even more- and of course chew everything else in sight. It only takes about 15- 20% of the ‘coons chewing to not meet the BMP criteria. This is where our memories of our trap lines are not the same as DATA from our trap lines…. We took the No. 1 ½ coil spring with about 23% chewing under the best conditions and reduced it to 12% by adding a double jaw… still have the advantage of taking muskrats and mink on the same line with the same trap. Costs about $1-$2 for each trap.


Also, contrary to views expressed on this discussion board, raccoons that did get entangled averaged 97.8 points, whereas those that did not become entangled averaged 83.4 points

We also looked at allowing raccoons to become entangled away from the capture site by putting them on drags. We looked at two different trap types, and chained half of them on 30” of chain- staked- half in the woods and half at the edge of shallow water. The other half we chained to light drags…. The raccoons on the drags had higher injury scores than did the raccoons that were staked.

ENTANGLEMENT INCREASES INJURY. That is what the data says… sure, some trappers disagree…. Show me the money.

One more study you should be aware of ... in 2002 or so we tested the #220 and the #160 Conibears on land for raccoons to get some efficiency data... I didn't list it here, but can later if you want me to. Efficiency was fine, and capture/1000 trap nights was slightly better with the #220 than the #160s, even with the dog-proof boxes.

The #220 and the #160 conibear meet all the BMP criteria as well ...I think there are about 14 or so different models.

Sorry I had to split this into several posts, but I had to start somewhere… later, I’ll jump in on the evil Cable Restraint Conspiracy!

Thanks for listening…holler if you have any questions….

Dave Hamilton
573-882-9909 ext 3283

[trappnman]

Perhaps I should ask a few quetions so we know where we are at

1) how many of the tests were conducted on land?

2) if land tests were done- how many were set in deep woods, 100% entanglement situations?

3) Were any mobile drags used- specifically long branches in either land or water?

4) Were any sets made so that the coon had options for chewing? - natural now, not pvc etc. That wasn't my theroy but based on my findings, I considered it might have had merit- but I am not introducing it here as an option..

Wyh would you say that injury scores are higher i nentanglement situations? Using the proper techniques in entanglement situations or providing options- does cut down on chewing.

Indeed- I set 1.5 Dukes- perhaps the best overall production coon trap out there based on success... in entanglement situations for 1 reason- less chewing, more coon in the morning.

I had Lori start fulltiming with me- on each and every coon we took in deep woods I made her look at the foot- I alos made her look at the feet of every staked coon in none entanglement, out in the open sets. (overhead cover really seems a moot point based on the test results- its the overhead cover COMBINED with entanglement that does the trick)

btw- I see very little in ther NTA protocal that I would use.

[trappnman]

I'm not sure in what context I mentioned novice testors- perhaps in their contention that entanglement is bad.

We in fact had a few posts by an experienced coon trapper involved in the bmps. His opinion was simple- he wasn't allowed to set the traps in a way that he knew to reduce chewing. He felt that the protocal was inducing failure.

to further the statement on NTA protocal- staking in water ALLOWING the coon to get out of water- invitation to chew- inducing failure.

If staking- heres a tip- very short 1-2 inch chain, if that. Stake so trap CANNOT come above water lever. I'vwe quicklinked right ot stake.

End result- NO chewing.

Simple- yet effective. If reducing chewing is a priority, of course.

Two- am curious- if cover wasn't avialable- how and with what was it provided?

[Hamilton]

I’ll try to provide answers from trappnman:

1) “how many of the tests were conducted on land?”<br>
Most of the Southeast studies (SE) had about half of the sets in the woods. In the Midwest, most were along streams at the waters edge … but some exceptions…. We have looked at the data every which way- and bottom line is raccoons chew … we saw no difference between those set in the woods and those set in water. ‘coons in water chew too. When you’ve looked at several hundred raccoons in every conceivable set – and with the same ballpark results, you come to that conclusion. Trappnman... I have heard it over and over- "my techniques work- no chewing" ... show me.

2) “if land tests were done- how many were set in deep woods, 100% entanglement situations?”<br>
In the SE studies, half of all the ‘coons were in the woods.

3)”Were any mobile drags used- specifically long branches in either land or water?"

Yes, see my explanation above regarding the study of the drags…. We didn’t use wood drags, but small fox grapples.

4) "Were any sets made so that the coon had options for chewing? - natural now, not pvc etc. That wasn't my theroy but based on my findings, I considered it might have had merit- but I am not introducing it here as an option.”<br>
The first couple of years, we let the trappers set like they always set … and that is when we discovered that entanglement was a problem…. Those raccoons that got entangled had much worse scores- so from that point on, we made sure that the trappers paid attention to those details and removed potential entanglement.

I will have another look at all of our data- and sometime next week I’ll be able to provide you with some numbers about entanglement in addition to what I’ve stated above.

“Two- am curious- if cover wasn't avialable- how and with what was it provided?”<br>
Trappers found brush – thin, weedy material- nearby and stuck it in the ground to provide some concealment cover. This was from another one of our experts that said "You guys don't know what you are doing ... I'll show you - my 'coons don't chew" And that is a quote.

I am open to ideas … but gotta say, they have to be easier than using a double jaw trap, or else no one is going to do it… you might have good luck taking coons in the deep woods and maybe you have less chewing (needs to be 12% or less) … but the fact is the production cooner is in the water where the big numbers of coons are.

Trappnman ... when you say, my coons don't chew .... we aren't talking 50% here... not 1 in 3, or 1 in 5.... we need only 1 in 8-10. And consistently among a bunch of tappers all across the Midwest, and in every 'coon trapping habitat.


Just a quick side note- One of the BMP trappers has gone to Grizz Getrz so he can trap in all kinds of weather, and sets on the high bank so he isn’t effected by freezing, and up and down water …. Yes, expensive to start …. He runs about 100- 120 traps I think …. So lots of upfront $$ …. But in 3-4 years he’s taken about 4,500 coons and I would guess his average is at least $12 each. I saw him sell 700 ‘coons one day about 2 months ago and averaged $14.75 …. Do the math.

[trappnman]

Not sure what math I'm supposed to do- I'll flat out tell you that lil griz are NOT the trap to use in deep woods situations- very low %. Was one of the first to test them out- and love them for their specific purpose. Which is not a mink/coon/fox trap- and on my line..and most fur trappers I know- the "incidentals" are as important as the "primary"

I too have seen 1000s of coon in traps. My traps.

I told you one way to ELIMINATE chewing on water sets- and you say "show me".... Come on up next year and I not only will show you that method- but to show you how branch drags cut down chewing in both land and water.

That water method cuts down chewing to a point it is a non factor- Are you going to test it?

How big were those SE coon? 8 lb average? think size might be a factor?

You told me that hypothermia was a big killer of coon in your tests- in 40 years- only dead coon in my traps were in the #11 otter trapping- bare bellied yoy.

Any northern states have testing done? MN? WS?

I can also show you methods on land where providing chewing options via 360 degree movement reduces chewing.

I can also set up so I'll get 100% chewing. Not hard to do either..

I told you all of these methods over the phone several years ago- but you were not interested in methods. Cause that was testing trappers, not traps. Yet protocal is an important part of the eastern bmps-

What exactly was putting branches around the set going to do? OVERHEAD cover. Anytime you stake a coon solid- he'll chew (unless his foot is underwater).

so 1 in 12 is enough to fail? so on all the sample below 50- several in the low 30s- we are talking 3-4 coon failed, 30 some pass?

Shades of flipping pennies- lets get some real samples.

all we can do is look at the thresholds and conclude that they are unrealistic for coon- as many trappers and NTA people pointed out several years ago- yet were overruled by the vets.

and pray tell me- how can a #11 trap pass? I was forced in using them in 3 years on otter- and caught way, way more coon than otter and let me tell you- there are an awful lot of coon missing toes running around that area- far, far more than the 1 out of 12. Chewing was well, well over the 75% mark.

Yet that trap passed and a 1.5 failed? come on now.

Entanglement is a tool- used with the proper drags- it certainly reduces chewing. Since none of your tests were on such drags- and I actually doubt much was in true entangelment situations- any data is moot-

Are you worried about broken legs, etc in such a situation rather than chewing? Don't be- short chains eliminate that except on rare occasions.

What bothers me is this- I trap coon for 5 months a year for fur- in hot weather, in cold weather, in below zero weather- all with footholds. Over the past 40 years doing so- I've learned just a little on how to reduce chewing.

Why? I was ahead of my time? I'm pc? I'm just an humane (animane) type of guy?

Not at all- simply this- reduce chewing- more coons in my pockets. I'm really past the point where I care if anyone takes this as valid or not- but knowing what I know how techniques can and DO reduce chewing- I'm not going to blindly accept coon bmps that go against every method I've learned.

Do me a favor- rest the water method I shared with you. You wanted a method that REDUCED CHEWING- I just gave you one. Knock it down to about....well, I've never had any chew in such a set up.

Maybe the Vets object to holding a coon in water? Well, I'll give them that- I DO hold my coon in the water- land is not an option. Why- cause coon with access to land in non entanglement situations...chew.

Its a simple concept- a foot held under water- is not chewable. Problem: Solved!

Perhaps after you test that- and see that by cracky, maybe that little ole country trapper from Minnesota might actually know a thing or two- and I'll give you my land methods.

So- a challenge- easy enough to see if I'm wrong..or not....trappnman

[trappnman]

PS- I find it discerting that the advice on the coon bmps is apparently to go to lil grizs?

So 3 traps passed- throw out the 1 coil and the #11 OFFSET as silly coon traps- look at the catch % and look at any man that has used them more than a season or two. They might work on those 10 lb southern coon- my average coon here is close to 20 lbs (I don't trap early coon)- but they are a joke here- like using a 1.5 on coyotes...and that leaves the dj 1.5...and that too is under 70% success rate. My technique isn't good enough to always get a front foot catch- esp in log stepdowns- another way to reduce chewing...

and 2- it seems to be a common thread that the bmps are "only guidelines" "only recomendations"...yet the ink isn't even dry on the Western bmps and Montana...MONTANA!!!!! already tried to pass them into law.

It doesn't take too astute an observer to think that this is only the first such scrimmage....

Pandora can't shut the box up- and we are all going to be forced to live with what was released.....trappnman

[trappincoyotes39]

Dave I'm glad you came here and wrote what you did, also I participated in the Trapping Matters workshop, and I'll tell you it was the best PR and informative workshop on why we need trapping as I have ever attended, just excellent from top to bottom. The speakers and information where top notch. I learned alot from it.
The data shows what you have stated, and I am glad that these studies are being performed, to not only show other biologist why we need trapping, but to prove to trappers and the general public that we can back up what we claim with the BMP's.
It will be a strong factor for trapping, as you mentioned to have the firepower to back up what trappers have claimed for along time, and to give confidance to those in states that may be leary on trapping and to those newbie biologist that just never have been around or involved in trapping, it will shed some good PR and factual data on many people, directly or indirectly.
BMPs are only useful to trapping and to trappers if your agency uses them properly, and that is to gain and maintain credibility with their public , right on that is the bottom line in a nutshell!
It is up to the states to decide on how they want to use the BMP's and for trappers to let there state agencys know how they feel and how they would like to use the BMP"s to the trappers advantage. I feel most states see the need for trapping, and what it could cost in many ways without it, but factual data will always be a plus, not a negative for trappers.
Thanks again for comming on and explaining this all, so all can read, be informed and make up there minds.

How many coon where trapped through the whole process? I'm betting it's more than some might think? Also did the coon BMP eat up the most man hours of any testing so far in relationship to trying to get the 1.5 reg jaw passed? I'm betting alot of man hours and the data still proves the same. Interesting?

[trappnman]

Dave- one other question- were your "entanglement" situations either on staked traps or fox drags? What % of each?

[trappnman]

some examples-

hers a big coon in a 100% entanglement situation on a moveable wooden drag. Note no chewing in the brush...and his foot is the same



heres is a coon with loose wire fastening allowing him plenty of free movement and plenty of options to chew- Note the chewed branches- time spent chewing on woood takes attention off the trap

[SgtWal]

Thank you for the data. It helps to see the numbers instead of just a summary.
I have a problem, and have always had, with the BMP process and its effect on trapping as a sport or business.
In your opinion, does any of this justify FUR trapping? Could the same population/disease control be achieved via government sponsored trapping programs that do not sell the fur?
Isn't, in the eyes of the State, the harvest of fur secondary to the control issues?
The BMP process draws a picture of which traps do the least harm, but what, other than the cost, makes the case for these to be used by non-government trappers?
Trapping will always be with us. It is a force multiplier that alows one person to cover more ground and harvest more animals than any single hunter could. What concerns me, and some others, is the effort to end the fur trade. The end of "commercial" trapping is the end of trapping for private individuals.
Shouldn't a Best Managment Practice, make the case for who does the work, and why, as well as what equipment they use?


wayne

[trappnman]

That is a good point- that the tools are for the user-

One thing I see happening i nmany states, including Minnesota. The trapping organisations seem to be always urging regulations, restrictions that take trapping further from its roots of making moiney- to a strickly hobby/trophy type activity. As I've said publically, it seems like some are just too darn worried someone else might actually make money at trapping.

Fur trapping will be regulated out not be eliminating TRAPPING- but by putting on so many restrictions as to seasons, equipment, methods- that it will become- if it already isn't- impossible to make money selling fur.

[trappincoyotes39]

The BMP's have nothing to do with fur trapping as a way to make or not make income!!! It is their to show the public that we care about the species and we strive to hold them as best as we can with "THE BEST EQUIPMENT" and most up to date equipment possible.

This shows in a direct manner, opposite what the anti's preach!!! We can be humane to the animals and show empathy towards them, not that they ampuatate all and everything that steps into a trap! Paul Harvey had on a warning on his radio show," people of New Mexico be aware trapping season is now open and to watch your children closely," this is the kind of stuff through the BMP"s we can debunk with science and data and get the information out to the public. WE as trappers, and trappers more so on the fur end want people to see us as kind and caring even though death is a part of it all, hunting has done this and has greatly improved the acceptance in many areas across the US, with stressesing humane kills and proper equipment to acheive such.

The fact of the matter is read the polling, people want us to be as kind to the animals as we can even though they know death is going to take place, and also a portion doesn't like the fact that their is a monetary gain, but we can educate them on this, it is no different than the livestock market they kill to eat and someone profits, we need to educate on the importance of fur and show the true economic impact it has in the US and also to point out that fur trapping has incentive to be a "free" service to those with too many of a species versus either the lanowner paying for services or the tax payers paying for services. Let them decide if they want to pay into a program! I would think just like the word of raising taxes is a bad thing, if informed as to the cost which would arrise from no fur trapping and the liability on local and state goverments to keep disease and over population in check would cost them.

Either way their will always be commerical trapping be it in the fall strictly for fur or year round on a nusiance type job, we will never get away from commercial trapping!!! I don't forsee the Fed governemnt enacting every state to have an ADC program nor will many states want the added burden or exspense they will allow private work force to handle it in many areas. So I really don't see how you can make the claim that by using the equipment that test out to be the "best" in each case that is ending commerical trapping and really what is the added exspense involved from trappers? The coyote BMP has nothing more added than what the majority are doing to the equipment anyhow. Equipment cost aren't the biggest factor in the fur market and what drives it, fur values,population,gas prices, time constraints and weather all top the list higher than equipment cost. There is plenty of used equipment to be had at decent prices. No testing has proven wholesale changes in equipment or that which is 2-3x's what we pay now!
The BMP's are not about ending fur harvest or the making of money from it. It is about being able to finally dispel rumours, lies and opinion from the facts of the testing and having others on board than just a group of trappers stating such.

[trappnman]

time will tell

[bblwi]

Hello Dave,
Good to see you reporting and posting here. Just wanted to say hi. I need to go back and read your posts in detail. Have you been to WI lately for Smallies? I floated some nice habitat on some rivers this summer and we smacked some 5 lbs. bronze backs!!

Bryce

[coyoteman37]

out of the coon trapped how many trapped the rear foot ? If you target the rear foot chewing is elimanted. try it. this is what I dont undstand all the weight of a coon is in the rear bones are thicker less pain than a coon caught by the toes.

[MChewk]

37 I really think some coon just lose it when restrained! I remember hearing a report at a NTA midwest conference regarding coon BMPs.... weird info about coon in cages chewing!! And coon chewing above captured paw in footholds. IF these BMPs are research based and for knowledge to public...Joe Average....never seen a trap before...info regarding coons strange disposition needs to be used at introduction ...in the middle of publication ...and again at the end of the publication. MAKE IT KNOWN THAT THIS ANIMAL IS CAUSING TRAPPERS DIFFICULTY! I think this the least the BMP committee can do for us.

[trappnman]

Hear! Hear! I agree 100% and have often stated that such MUST be the starting point of the coon bmps.

[coyoteman37]

myself they should scrap the whole thing . let us trappers decide the target is going to die in the end anyhow . so we are just waseing time and money to please the unpleaseable.