What do you think will come of all of this.

[WVBill]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

First off, I do not get involved much into the BMP issue because I have some very mixed emotions about it.

But I come here and read often.

I have a couple of questions though and I believe I know most of the answers but I want to see if we agree.

Will the process end up driving up costs to the trappers. (Ie more elaborate traps to facilitate the needs and desires of the BMP.) The grizz and coon cuff comes to mind here.

Many State Natural resources office fully support the Process. What is there motivation? I know our governments have spent money on other things but there was a reason or thought of some sort of change, correct?

Bill

[CoonDuke]

I have one thing to say about the elaborate traps.

I trap coon for two reasons. One is for the money and two is for the excitement of catching incidental gray fox and mink on my traplines.

Dog proof coon traps would take those two factors out of the equation for me and I would probably trap coon very little if at all.

[trappnman]

I think the amount of active involvement varies from state to state.

I am torn on what the bmps will do, if anything. Severla things could happen. States that have restrictive trapping laws most likely will adopt some or all of the bmps as law.

The fact as you say most state agencies are involved only increases the odds that "recommendation" will become law.

The suite thing always bothered me- its like an encouraged loophole. A loophole I thinkwill be blocked down the road.

bmps on coon- scoring for injuries that occur on numb, unfeeling toes. A tragedy if he was going to be released-but not if I harvest him.

No pain, no foul I'd say.

And to take away drowning as an unacceptable method. And its going to happen sooner or later- the Vet council, who apparently pulls the strings- will see to that. As Dave Hamilton told me- "no way, no how are the vets going to go with drowning on coon. They MIGHT go with it on rats and mink"

So when do we make a stand? after the water tests? after te snaring bmps? when?

I say NOW.

Some states will ignore them-

[WVBill]

I am really worried that like was said. Some of the BMP findings will influence laws. This state in particular needs to realize that we dont need any more mandates. We actually need to loosen some. But I wont go into that here. Although they are making progress in their licenseing system.

What we really need is not so many inexperienced trappers. I read an editorial in our local paper from a lady, who claims that her cat was caught in a leg hold and how she warned others that there was somebody setting traps for cats in this location.

It was right in the heart of town.

It would not surprise me if it did not happen. Some young kid took half dozen old traps out. Set them down next to the creek and the old abandon plant and low and behold he snags neighbor Mables prized kitty. He does what he should have and released it but the big things is common sense would of probably eleviated his problem. All this did was put trappers in a higher profile in the area. I was asked twice after that came out if I was trapping in that area. I said not hardly and asked those that questioned me if they had any idea where the street was that she mentioned. Neither one of them had a clue.

Enough rambling on that.

But if mandates get handed down that these traps can only be used in drowner situations and these grizz's can only be used for land it is just going to push those ,that had the desire to learn and become a trapper, away from it. It will end up costing so much to get traps for coon and traps for fox and so on that it wont be worth it.

I am really concerned because you get a professional (VET) and scientific evidence and a good manipulator things can really get turned into a mess.

I can here it now.......

Ladies and Gentleman of the Game Commision,

There have been some extensive studies over the past 10 years and they have found through scientific evidence that there is a need for laws and regulations specifying what kind of trap(s) needs to be used to humanely restrain each individual species. These studies were performed by professional trappers throughout the United States and each one has basically came to the same conclusion. Dr. Kavorikan here did alot of the Xrays and examinations of some of these animals and he can tell you that he saw less damage using xyz trap for coon and wgu trap for fox and so on.

In closing we would like to hand you the proposal of the changes that we would like to see take place and if you need to speak to me or the Dr. at any time we would be more than happy to explain the findings.

At that moment all of the PETA people in the back of the room stand up and cheer.
The beginning of the end.

Off my box now

[trappnman]

[trappincoyotes39]

You fail to mention the vets doing the necocropsy are "wildlife vets", not run of the mill cat/puppy vets. The 2 places used for this work are in Wyoming and Georgia, now how many 4 year schools have vet programs? Yet these 2 where picked for a reason, that being not to have the Bambi idiology. Francis Galey who heads the vet lab in Wyoming, has worked most of his life on livestock and horses, and has many good studys on all animals, he has been connected with the rancher and knows that lifestyle, allbeit I have never directly spoke with him, I'm betting his views on trapping would be more positive than negative.

[WVBill]

35,

I totally understand about the vets.

AND.......................

I hope you are 100% correct on what you are saying about the BMP's but I can tell you I am not holding my breath.

As far as testing goes. How does a trapper get selected to do the testing. Trained by somebody for a couple of days, X amount of years of experience, X amount of critters caught?

I would want somebody that was middle of the road doing this not a experienced individual and definetly not a rookie.

Bill

[trappincoyotes39]

Why wouldn't you want an experianced trapper doing the testing?

[WVBill]

The best way to do this is take the average trapper. If it will work for him it will definetly work for the expert and with some education the inexperienced should be able to achieve the same results.

There are more middle of the road trappers than beginners and experts combined. Thus tailoring to the majority.

The experts have years and years of experience. They are not your typical trapper.

Dont want to type alot tonight 35 but I think you can understand where I am going with this.

Bill

[trappincoyotes39]

But Bill wouldn't you want the experts doing the studies, therefore getting better scores and having more equipment to choose from in the end? After all Tman thinks that if he and others did the coon BMP the 1.5 would have surely passed with flying colors, wouldn't that make more sense to all trappers?

[trappnman]

TC35- YOU are the one that said the bmps HAVE to be designed for the average trapper.

That the average trapper couldn't understand or use proper techniques to reduce chewing.

I think thats nonsense and that in 30 minutes- I could teach you methods that DO substantially reduce chewing.

Entanglement situations- not for the entanglement per se...but for the diversion.

I do not possibly see how TECHNIQUES can be separated from TRAPS to determine bmps.

Its done in every other type of bmp out there.

AS foxtail says- no good can come out of bmp on issues like hunting, fishing and trapping.

I'd like to see one on deer hunting.

EDUCATION and TECHNIQUES....

[trappnman]

"I'd like to see one on deer hunting"

of course, that was said faciously- cause a deer hunting bmp based on the AVERAGE hunters AVERAGE skills- wouldn't interest me in the slightest.