location success rates

[northof50]

Things you learn when you are a receiving agent and tag the furs.
Little did I know there were 10 other guys working my area bringing in 2-300 coyotes.
The evening call between the dogs still continue into the spring.

It has been an interesting read.
yoy do have a wide dispersal

[Deleted]

That northof50 was exactly how I felt last week!  If you watched the last video I posted in this thread, you'll hear me talk about the properties around that set.  Well, last week I'm out trying to get permissions for this season and I speak with the brother-in-law to the farmer who owns the property to the right side of the coyote I have in the trap.  He tells me how his brother-in-law is a big time night-caller, coyote shooter and since he lives on that particular 80, that's where "he kills quite a few coyote"!!  

I had no idea except you heard me in the video say I set on one track that had used the slick.  1 track is all I had to set on and it took from 11/2-11/13 to catch it and no other tracks were seen during that time period!  There were 2 other old single tracks crossing the field but they were old and completely random.  Now I understand the WHY of that low number using that area!  I had permission on a nice 1/2 wooded/1/2 field property across the road from the shooter/farmer's house, so I had property on 2 sides of the farmer/shooter.  I never set a trap on the other property.  Not suprisingly, there was no sign!!!

Needless to say I won't be going back to those two properties this season.

[trappnman]

'I would add that the resident family does not all panic and split up or leave the general area when harvest occurs.'

you are missing the point- at least here that simply isn't imo true.

How much corn do you have> here, corn is king.

[braveheart]

Here is one for ya. We have a lot of corn here as well. How is your catch in a corn field compared to a bean or hay ground fields? If the corn field is baled or disked it is good for coyotes. But stalks' I struggle with consistent catches.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2021 21:27:38 GMT -6 trappnman said:

'I would add that the resident family does not all panic and split up or leave the general area when harvest occurs.'

you are missing the point- at least here that simply isn't imo true.

How much corn do you have> here, corn is king.

Who are you speaking too?

If me, no they don't.  They apparently start to scatter here BEFORE harvest and through harvest that'a why I lose the families sign down to singles and /or pairs. By October 1st the scattering has started the amount of sign shows is completely readable in between rows but maybe a little harder without the sun to help "lift" the tracks.  Most beans except soys will be off as will the beets and plowed by end of October but corn will be way later, some years it won't come off until into deer season(mid-Nov) then immediately plowed ( much during harvesting) all depending on how wet the ground..  Most years I get a chance to scout pre-plowed bean fields, better gound to read sign than the heavier beet ground and some will already be planted in winter wheat which is nice and fluffy to read.

 Corn is not king here, beans and beets depending on the rotation but I don't have any diary farms except 1, this is flat, row crop country.

[Deleted]

I really dislike trapping in my "true" farm country, I'd much rather be on deer properties and use what's available.  Some years ago I was mink and coyote trapping in the farm ground and I was in the middle of a normal 1 mile section where a good ditch hit several fence-lines and a couple acre woodlot.  I'll never forget the depressed feeling I had at that moment.  I could turn 360* and see all of the houses around that section AND nothing but plowed ground!  Sure I caught a couple coyotes and several mink there but I never trapped that property again and tried harder each year after to get into the woods and out of the dirt!  

Even though in the last video I posted I'm in the dirt, I also have a good chunk of woods around me as well.

[flathead40]

I'd much rather trap beans/ hay any day. If the corn is chopped I'll sometimes set the edge of the field and do ok. But most likely end up looking for the traps in a day or 2 because it's going to be plowed. To me "true" farm ground needs to have something other than a fence line or tile line. I'd like to find the reason coyotes would be there, other than running the fence. (Not sure that makes sense)

[Deleted]

Makes sense to me because that’s normal trapping conditions for me.  Following the fence-line from one prey cover to the next and so on and so on. Wished it wasn’t but it is what it is!  

[braveheart]

I was asking any one. I mainly like draws or water ways. Corn the darn stalks get wrapped in the chain makes a mess. Not much of a line fence guy had to many wind drifts of snow over my traps. Kind of gun shy.

[Deleted]

The coyote still have to travel but move out from the drifted fence lines.  The houndsmen know this very well that the coyote sign will be found drifting out to where the snow is shallow.  I'm always in the woods by the time the snow is drifting the fence lines anyway.  Really no such thing as a draw in flat country but we do have drainage ditches which are about like a setting fencerows.

Ed Schneider told me a story about him & Richard having to calculate to a farmer in the Dakotas how many stalks of corn would be ruined by a coyote in one of their traps.  They told him and the farmer figured what his loss would be before allowing them to trap in his corn.

[trappnman]

seldom- my comment included a quote I disagreed with from Griz-

well, standing corn setting is a big no no and never happens for me.

Here we have a couple scenarios.

1) the big dairys, for the most part have 2 crops- hay and corn. And the corn, just about always, is chopped and chopping will be starting now and will be finished by end of Sept if not earlier, most times much earlier as they want that high moisture corn.

Plowing the chopped corn depends on the farms- some plow right away, the ones that have beans or maybe hay to put up, will wait until everything is done for the year but just before freeze to plow. And many leave "paths" where the side part of the field isn't p;owed as they use the edge for various things- getting to hay, getting to silage, etc.

so chopped corn is alright with me.

2) those that pick corn, usually bale the stalks- so if you want to trap it (or more apt for me use it as a travelway) you would be safe to that point- but I almost never call it never set in cornfields in any form- with the exception of edges of chopped corn, which usually is around a compost pile.

3) The mixed baggers- those that chop a little, pick a little, and also have beans and hay. My favorite farms for several reasons: access cause mixed crops mean field roads, edges and the biggest bonus of all- BEAN FIELDS

Bean fields are super wet weather access points for me. The duff provides a top layer over the dirt, and as long as you don't stop, or only stop on an incline (easy to do) you can drive thme in some horrible conditions. Plus, coyotes hunt bean fields- and the little fingers that occur of weeds, unharvested beans- are deadly attraction points. Sets are easy to make- bean duff piles are quick and very successful- I'll set bean fields 100% given a choice.

Only disadvantage is when it rains, its.....muddy coyotes.

4) my 2nd choice, is short grass. I hate high grass. So bean fields, and hay fields are the ticket. Ask which are old hay and will be plowed in spring, and you have more good access.

Speaking of access- thats the one downfall of farm country.. I don't mind the people- I have more land to trap if I wanted than I could ever set up and we are a rural farming area. Only times I ever got turned down from permission is if someone else was trapping

But access- bigger farms have constant traffic on the field roads, so they are hard packed dirt that turns into an ice rink when muddy. and those roads lead to the best locations. Its very tempting to say screw it, I'll deal with wet weather when it happens, but over the years I've learned NOT to set up such locations unless one of two things were there: a flat out 100% dry forecast for the time i'll be there (hey, it happens) OR have at least 1 "escape route" meaning if I have to, if weather gets so bad, I have at least a 1 time use access to get in and out, that normally I'd not be able to take.

A note on field roads- big farms have the worst wet weather roads- all packed dirt. The smaller mixed crop farms, usually have decent, grassy field roads. A few (Yea!) actually have gravel on the main roads, or at least the trouble spots.

I have maybe 15 big dairies, a few smaller ones, maybe 6 or 7 bigger beef guys, and a lot of little guys raising 20-50 pairs of beef and/or raising calves for te bigger dairies. And all my locations, very few don't have cows at least close. Have 2 sheep guys, and a few pig operations.

Cows, etc are the key here. Yes, you can catch them without livestock, but its far more random, simply because there is plenty of food, plenty of cover, but nothing to concentrate anything.

I love trapping farm country. With the possible exception of being out west, I've seen no part of the country where I'd rather trap than here. I did like out west, esp on the Pathfinder- seeing herds of elk, pronghorns, deer were neat, and I didn't see a house or anyone all day- a different experience for sure.

But here- I like familiar country. I like continuity. some of these farmers Im on 2nd generation with. Ive trapped some of these places 30 years. 100% of my locations, are on working farms. I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

"Ed Schneider told me a story about him & Richard having to calculate to a farmer in the Dakotas how many stalks of corn would be ruined by a coyote in one of their traps. They told him and the farmer figured what his loss would be before allowing them to trap in his corn."

He should calculate how much corn those coyotes are eating as well. Talked to Ed at MTA, and watched his demo. He is almost a blind set guy, even in bean fields its more of a blind set at the duff pile. Relies on fence lines quite a bit as a variation of a walkthrough. Very very few fencelines here, and if there are its almost always a hot wire.

[Griz]

Aug 11, 2021 7:18:47 GMT -6 trappnman said:

seldom- my comment included a quote I disagreed with from Griz-

The point I was making is that the family does not panic and leave as corn is harvested. Some family members drift off or the family breaks up prior to harvest as described by Seldom. I mentioned coyotes hunting the field as it was being harvested. However, within a few days of harvest the majority of the family members have moved or scattered to surrounding cover areas. They still run the fencerows to travel among the cover areas such as unharvested fields, CRP fields, rough ground areas, and between drainages. As I mentioned, single coyotes lay in fencerows during the day in areas that are mainly crop ground. In much of my area crop ground is king: corn and soybeans with many adjoining sections with nothing but crop ground with fencerows as the only cover. Coyotes hunt the fencerows for food by traveling the downwind side. I also mostly set in bean ground on the downwind side of fencerows since I feel that it is easier walking for coyotes hunting those fencerows.  Walking chiseled corn ground is not easy.

Ed Schneider's sets as described "He is almost a blind set guy, even in bean fields its more of a blind set at the duff pile. Relies on fence lines quite a bit as a variation of a walkthrough." work well in many of my situations because the fencerows concentrate the coyote travel/hunting activity. I also like bean fields because of ease of access and ease of set making, especially in the early part of the season. Also, once anhydrous is applied there is little to no activity in the bean ground.  I agree that one must keep an eye on the weather for rain that can close access.

[trappnman]

Also, once anhydrous is applied there is little to no activity in the bean ground.

odd- makes no difference either way here

[trappnman]

not nitpicking, but trying to make the point as things are here-

"However, within a few days of harvest the majority of the family members have moved or scattered to surrounding cover areas. They still run the fencerows to travel among the cover areas such as unharvested fields, CRP fields, rough ground areas, and between drainages. As I mentioned, single coyotes lay in fencerows during the day in areas that are mainly crop ground"

Yes, coyotes hunt harvest, and coyotes follow old fashion manure wagons as well.

You used the word scatterred. Ok- I'll go with that with the caveat of scattered, implys panic. A flock of birds scatters when a hawk dive bombs- same with a covey of quail, and so on. And when it happens enough, there is no more familiar territory esp in true corn country. mixed farms yes- but there we are talking strips, small acreages- not hundreds of continuous acres. When thats gone, its gone. No fencerows.

Farmer sees coyotes all summer- after harvest poof! I've learned not to set up such places. I guess as my silver bullet for locations- is what is here, or close enough by, to support coyotes in the dead of winter? Because that, allows coyotes to be there during summer and early fall.

That is good in one way- it forces those coyotes to scatter- and when they do- they encounter other coyotes- how does that go one wonders. Probably not too well for a young pup used to love from mama.

So they aren't panicked like someone unloading a rifle at their tail- but they are certainly in a different mindset, and its not business as usual. And yes, they do follow travelanes that otherwise might not be traveled much since they are in essence lost- every turn of a corner is new to them. Thus- the one and done.

[Griz]

Agreed. That is much of my trapping area: standing at the set site and seeing what appears to be nothing but crop fields as far as the eye can see. There are coyotes there, and one must learn to find them (not large groups but singles and doubles). You learn to expect and work with one and done, with the rare locations of two or three. Or one must discover the travel patterns of those remaining "homies" and the "lost" individuals that are on their own. There are travelways used by nearly every "lost" individual as they pass though your trapping area. These individuals are often not very expert at finding food and are thus more vulnerable as they travel strange areas. Those fencerows, short waterways, low areas, CRP fields, and creeks can be visualized as connected and begin to look equivalent to road maps with interstates, two lane highways, gravel roads, and dirt roads with appropriate coyote travel amounts. You expect to see more cars on the interstate than on the dirt road.  Thus, you expect to see more coyotes on the "interstate equivalent" than the "dirt road equivalent". So, you set the coyote travelways equivalent to the interstates and ignore the coyote travelways equivalent to dirt roads.

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2021 13:31:05 GMT -6 Griz said:

Agreed. That is much of my trapping area: standing at the set site and seeing what appears to be nothing but crop fields as far as the eye can see. There are coyotes there, and one must learn to find them (not large groups but singles and doubles). You learn to expect and work with one and done, with the rare locations of two or three. Or one must discover the travel patterns of those remaining "homies" and the "lost" individuals that are on their own. There are travelways used by nearly every "lost" individual as they pass though your trapping area. These individuals are often not very expert at finding food and are thus more vulnerable as they travel strange areas. Those fencerows, short waterways, low areas, CRP fields, and creeks can be visualized as connected and begin to look equivalent to road maps with interstates, two lane highways, gravel roads, and dirt roads with appropriate coyote travel amounts. You expect to see more cars on the interstate than on the dirt road.  Thus, you expect to see more coyotes on the "interstate equivalent" than the "dirt road equivalent". So, you set the coyote travelways equivalent to the interstates and ignore the coyote travelways equivalent to dirt roads.

Yup, that’s how it works to me Griz.  Are you sure we’re not trapping the same ground??

I had more luck happenstance finding a few stall-outs that 1080 promoted in my territory years ago but after 4-5 years of trapping them, the stall-outs faded away, by numbers caught since fewer coyote were there to use it and by change of habitat.  When that happened, as I’ve said before, I just continued to trap as you described.  Even the stall-out locations became just another part of the travelway it was in.

[trappnman]

Yes, thats Ed Schinieders approach as well.

I can take a trap and put a set on any farm, anywhere on that farm- and if I stay there long enough, I'll catch a coyote.

But I have no interest in such.

My goal isn't to set and sit- its to catch and move on- and I can't do that, setting spokes.

The main travelways here are the fore mentioned waterways....and they aren't interstates with obvious lanes and routes- they are the inner city, with countless streets and byways.

Why set all those up? EVEN ON THOSE TRAVELWAYS THERE ARE STALL OUT SPOTS. All places his feet go- ARE NOT EQUAL.

THAT, in a nutshell, is the core of "the system". Its all about mindset.

I think the difference here, is you think those displaced coyotes are business as usual, I think nothing could be further from the truth.

[northof50]

Aug 12, 2021 18:11:39 GMT -6 trappnman said:

Also, once anhydrous is applied there is little to no activity in the bean ground.

odd- makes no difference either way here

Surprize-surprise everything in that field is a death zone, from mice to pocket gophers to jackrabbits to Hunns that flush from the tractor and land in the wrong zone.
every coyote knows it's a no-go zone if they value their lungs from being frozen.

s-46 guess I will have to view the clip since it is humidex of 100 today

What is corn? is that not something they use to make whiskey with ?

[braveheart]

I hate it when farmers say no gas on the bean ground. You get all set in boom it warms a little here it comes. And so goes the traps run over or hooked by the diggers.

[trappnman]

"Surprize-surprise everything in that field is a death zone, from mice to pocket gophers to jackrabbits to Hunns that flush from the tractor and land in the wrong zone.
every coyote knows it's a no-go zone if they value their lungs from being frozen."

coyotes travel it and go to the fingers either way. I've not seen where they stop using the fields both as travel ways, and if there are humting areas the same. years ago seemed everyone did it, now not so ften and you don't see the tanks like you did.