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Post by PamIsMe on Nov 23, 2015 23:45:54 GMT -6
IMHO This is exactly what's wrong with our economy. After 100 years Oscar Mayer is closing in Madison leaving 1500 people out of work. It has been bought out 7 times. Tyson foods is closing in Jefferson WI leaving 400 out of work, it was bought out last year. My daughter works for US Cellular, in the 19 years she's been there they've been bought out 6 times. Luckily they don't seem to have any plans to close their Madison office....yet. Although rumors run rampant every time a company is bought out, making for unease in the work place, when it happens it's always a shock to the employees who, in many cases, have nowhere else to find jobs. Those are continual buyouts are bad enough but then come these transactions: "Pfizer Inc on Monday said it would buy Botox maker Allergan Plc in a record-breaking deal worth $160 billion to cut its U.S. tax bill by moving its headquarters to Ireland. The acquisition will create the world\'s largest drugmaker, with combined annual revenue of about $64 billion. It is also the biggest-ever tax inversion deal, an increasingly popular and controversial maneuver aimed at helping U.S. companies lower their taxes by reincorporating overseas." It may be legal, but in my mind it should be a crime Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 25, 2015 8:16:30 GMT -6
But the corporate people don't pay taxes anyhow right?
You keep business in states and our country by making it reasonable for them to do so. Some states welcome business better than others. One states loss is another's gain. Very competitive and you are trying to win that business and revenue for your state.
Citibank used to have a strong hold in Maryland they have moved much of their business to South Dakota over the years because it was a better fit. Lower taxation, lower wages and less exspsensive to live than on the east coast. Now SD benefits from the move in millions in tax dollars,mpeople spending their money in the state and residing in South Dakota all making the state more revenue. Plus no state income tax, that alon adds value to the workers pocket book.
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Post by bobbrennan1 on Nov 26, 2015 6:15:19 GMT -6
Oh that's it we only will tax the rich ! After the rich leave or go elsewhere then it becomes the less rich like you and I!
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Post by bblwi on Nov 26, 2015 8:29:28 GMT -6
It is really an oxymoron to call our system a "free" market system anymore. We have created such a subsidized economy we don't even know how to do much or anything without some carrot be that to the poor, the rich or the businesses. Can't sell a car today unless it is 0 % interest and thousands in rebates even if the total cost is high. We offer all sorts of tax loopholes that make higher rates meaningless and we also need to offer large corporations freebies to stay. There seems to be great honor in buying, using or owning but we belittle labor and the work that labor does saying that you only work because we are offered a deal to produce.
I also think we need to understand that part of large conglomerates housing in other areas, nations is the markets are shifting as the world's wealth shifts. Also most northern European corporations headquarter there but make their products in other places where there is little to no VAT. Many very large intellectual and research companies are housed in these nations as intellectual property is not taxed.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 7:58:21 GMT -6
Bryce the funny thing is Ford is selling more of their new 1/2 ton trucks than ever! They are made here in claycomo, Mo they have plenty of OT for the workers and the line has been booming for a period of years, those trucks aren't being offered with big incentives that is the funny thing, I keep asking where people get all this money to buy 44,000 trucks?
Don't think the car makers don't have the 0 percent figured In to the price they do LOL.
The rest is because we are sitting with 17 trillion in debt! The banks are loaning money they are getting from our govt, we need to increase interest rates and start cutting away some of this debt sooner than later!
Housing would be nill,Nadda, nothing if not for better than 90 percent of the loans today being backed by our federal govt!
We are still living under a falsehood that our economy is doing ok, we know it is very fragile and will not take much to go back from where we came until hard changes are made.
E85 is a dead market that stuff now cost more than standard gasoline no one is buying it and the price of corn reflects the non use and non Subsidizing of such. Wonder how long before many of these ethanol plants close their doors? People will be looking for work.
Corn and bean prices for the near term don't look to be good at all. Other countries competeing with us in the AG sector and input cost not going down with the price of corn and beans.
Just read a report the other day John Deere sales are down 42 percent! They have begun lay offs and more to follow. They had a period of great years but those are done for awhile and many ranchers and farmers will be keeping equipment longer or buying used versus new with these prices. The cattle market has been dropping for the past couple months and getting back more inline with feed prices and people just haven't been consuming beef near like they did 10-15 years ago.
Hard times ahead for many in the AG and livestock industry. Many won't be thinking of the profits but how to break even. Those that went out and bought ground for 10,000-14,000 per acre now have to look at that crystal ball and figure out how can I make 3.60 corn and sub 9.00 beans work?
Cattle are off 200-250 per head at the sale barns compaired to 6 months ago. The trend is for more declines in the cattle market. The sheep market is still very good though!
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Post by trappnman on Nov 28, 2015 13:08:20 GMT -6
corporations pay taxes?
what a novel concept-
I'm sure they are paying their fair share in the countries they move to.
the poor poor rich- their REAL tax rate is lower than mine! but drink the kool aid
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 17:50:52 GMT -6
Tman kool aide, yep the rich pay nothing in fact you and I pay far more taxes than they do LOL LOL, talk about drinking the kool aide good grief. LOL.
I bet the amount you paid in taxes less years was 5 times what many of those making over 500,000 a year are paying right?
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Post by trappnman on Nov 29, 2015 9:32:07 GMT -6
you understand the issue is %, not amount?
and fyi- I didn't write the tax laws-
but I bet you know who did!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 29, 2015 14:51:42 GMT -6
No not really you can use percentage to ones advantage or disadvantage, if we each get a 5 percent raise and you make 10 per hr and I make 20 per hr who,is better off?
Your getting .50 while I get 1.00.
If we are paying taxes and you make 35,000 and pay in 1,200 after deductions your percentage is around 4 percent and say I make 300,000 and I pay 6 percent I am still,paying in 18,000 so I am paying 16,800 in more in taxes than you do.
You might think that is not near enough and I would say the same for you.
The issue being many making 35.000 and a few defendants actually get a check back not too many making 200,000 are getting a check back. The small,business man might have more deductions but he is also paying in far more different taxes than most who punch a clock each week. Private people don't pay near the taxes a business does those are just the facts.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 1, 2015 7:48:47 GMT -6
and if I pay 18% taxes- and Romney pays 12- why you are right....he DOES have more money.........
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Post by bblwi on Dec 1, 2015 14:28:07 GMT -6
So tell me what the sale of 1/2 ton trucks being up have to do subsidizing an industry? I an see now why we don't see eye to eye on many things you can't separate your opinions and stances from issues that don't correlate with each other. With the economy growing slowly and good marketing and low cost gas it is not surprising to see pickup and SUV sales jumping up. We prefer to drive larger, heavier vehicles even with high priced gas so why would that not happen at $2.00 gas? There is a corporate tax rate cut probably in the works with Ryan and the WH leading that charge. Let those firms bail that want to go. We still are the best nation to do business in even with our higher tax rates. Private property rights are the highest here of any developing nation and they are not going places fast along with infrastructure, research and a work force. Not much chance of nationalization of industries in the USA and that has always been a concern for businesses. Taxes are also an offshoot of profits or success and if you don't have either then taxation is a mute point.
Bryce
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Post by rionueces on Dec 1, 2015 20:57:07 GMT -6
I wrote the guvment a check for about 30% of my income last year. I know a lot of other people who paid in 30 to 39%. Don't believe what you hear about high income earners not paying any taxes.
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Post by bblwi on Dec 1, 2015 22:02:44 GMT -6
If you made 250K last year and paid say 75K in taxes then you have a very profitable business or employment with low expenses compared to many businesses. I worked with hundreds of small businesses over 40 years (dairy farms with sizes from 20 cows to 2,000 cows) and not one of them ever paid 30% of income in federal taxes.
Bryce
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Post by rionueces on Dec 2, 2015 18:06:03 GMT -6
Yes, very profitable, low expenses, not many write offs. Basically commission income from real estate deals. Not bitchin, but just sayin there are a lot of folks who pay the max every year.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 2, 2015 19:44:03 GMT -6
very true-
and I'll be very honest- as a self employed person in a business with high transportation expenses etc- I take advantage of every deduction and every write off I can-
and that's why a flat tax would be fair to all-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 2, 2015 20:14:39 GMT -6
so because you make far less Tman all of those deductions are fine for you or I but not for someone who is putting 25.50,125 people to work each and every day?
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Post by bblwi on Dec 2, 2015 22:55:22 GMT -6
The same deductions that Steve or I get are the same as those who make 10 fold what we do. I am not saying they should not get those if we all get them. The real fact is that if I donate 10K to charitable organizations I get about a 22% tax savings with 7% of that state. A person who earns 200 K that gives 10K saves 43% if he/she lives in WI. So from a real perspective the high income earner pays much less. This is a small example. The real crunch is in small businesses where equipment costs almost 40% less for those who have the most ability to pay and thus smaller businesses have a huge issue competing under the current tax code. The system that the high payers whine about is what is allowing them to become more of a monopoly and rid themselves of competition.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 3, 2015 12:17:01 GMT -6
Bryce that is where we differ, everyone looks at the small farmer and wonder where they went? Easy to see Input cost have risen a lot and commodity prices have not kept up with such, no different than th fur trapper really. Cost have risen on everything except th fur! Why would anyone wonder why trappers numbers are about extinct? The same traps we could buy 30 years ago for 35.00 a dozen are now 112 per dozen and the fur value is less . In order to mitigate cost we now have to catch 4 times the fur to offset the increased cost of just the traps not talking ,gas,vehicle, insurance etc.
You have a family of 4 on a farm of 600 acres say 160 In pasture and they run 30-35 Cow calf pairs each year they sell 45 calves at 1200 per head 54,000 before cost and the rest is a 50/50 mix of beans and corn 220 in corn yielding 160 per acre 116,000 in corn, 220 in beans at 35 avg 115,000 total is 196,000 before cost let's say he sees a return at 20 percent 39,200 at years end. if all bills are covered for 4 people.
growing more can be done cheaper you know that.
Many successful small business today is not completing with corporate giants, they are making money on markets and ideas the big companies don't relies the profit needed to make it worth their effort. Niche markets and local deals.
Example you have the big two Cabela's and Bass pro they cover a large range of products they are the big boys in the outdoor industry, yet you have some very successful small business that caters to a group of that large broad market, ever hear of Brownells? Based in Grinnell, Iowa now and they have become a very successful family owned business catering to the reloading market and shooting sports they have acquired another company called Sinclair that has been well known and respected in this area for many years. Together they take up market share against Cabela's and Bass pro by catering to the shooting Folks and have grown their business into a larger one even with having to compete with the big boys, as they have taken one section and ran with it, offering far more products across the board and at competitive prices with the big box outdoor stores, with their buying power. They just built a large building right off I-80 and that is where their very busy online orders are filled and a retail store comming soon.
They are adding jobs and tax revenue to a smaller town and I am sure the city has worked with them, they are competeing and do rather well I believe. I have no problem with a city giving them a tax break for a period of time or sharing cost to ensure those types of business stay in our local economy's . As they grow it is for the benefit of the locals in towns like Grinnell and others across the US, taxing the snot out of them or taking away some tax breaks will not lead to more people looking to have start up business.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 3, 2015 12:22:34 GMT -6
Bottom line in many areas we will always see competition, in some like farming unless things change food will be grown by all large farm corps to keep prices down.
What would chickens or pork cost today in a grocery store if we had it like it was? Where many small farms raise 150-200 hogs annually? Where would those prices paid for pork and chicken be in order to keep small farmers in business today? With much higher Input Cost today. 4-6 dollar per lb chicken and pork be a safe bet?
With profit margins being low the only way to make money is to grow large amounts In a quicker time frame.
Well blue bunny ice cream made in Lemars, Iowa they use a lot of dairy cream and milk and I mean a lot , instead of being at the mercy of the dairy market they went a different route they contract all their milk and cream out with their own dairy farms the price changes far less and they are paying a fixed price. That is smart business to keep their product on the shelves at a more fixed price for a longer period of time. To go out and buy the amount they need annually on the open dairy market would not be good for their business.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 3, 2015 12:29:03 GMT -6
The 43 percent is that a fixed rate or does it change with the amount they donate?
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