Braveheart

[Aaron.F]

Congratulations on the DVD, I got an email from Schmitt Enterprises today. Will you be selling signed copies at Fur Takers?

[braveheart]

Thanks Aaron it was kind of hard to make.It would be good to meet you and personally hand you one.
Thanks Marty

[renny1]

Marty, is there a reason that you put so much dirt on your coyote traps? It is more than I have been using. I'm just not understanding why you do it, so it may be a change I need to make. Thanks.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2015 7:10:06 GMT -6 renny1 said:

Marty, is there a reason that you put so much dirt on your coyote traps? It is more than I have been using. I'm just not understanding why you do it, so it may be a change I need to make. Thanks.

Well now you Aaron, you titilated us on an open forum with a question without background, soooooo, how much dirt cover are you and Braveheart talking about??

[renny1]

I just noticed on his DVD that he uses a lot more dirt cover than I use or have seen anyone use. May be as much as an inch or more, just looks like a lot to me. He gets it just right and then hits it again and may hit it again with dirt. I noticed it right off, but though that is just the way he does it. But he doesn't use near that much on his bobcat sets so I am thinking there is a reason he does it for coyote and not bobcat.

[braveheart]

The cats I just barely cover just trying to cover the black screen.The coyotes I run about a half in. over trap.With the freezing and thawing that year trying at least have some what of a blend.Can't use any area dirt all wet all material in the dirt wet also .Everything freezes at night rock hard.Went through a pile of dirt was that was all year.
Marty

[trappincoyotes39]

Just another luxury are larger traps, higher jaws and a better dirt covering. In open areas go light on the dirt and you come back to exposed traps. Also thicker dirt over the top works better with rains as well.

[trappnman]

the amount of covering over a trap, has to be related to the type of covering you have.

I'm like braveheart- a 1/2" to 3/4" covering is about what I use.

thing abotu a lot of dirt when it rains over trap, is that certian soils get a very hard crust, and even with "big" traps, with the higher tension one usually puts on bigger traps, can have a hard time coming up quickly

[braveheart]

I have had in high top area's wind blow the covering off my trap.And in the rain wash some off also.I like the 1/2 in. when late winter comes and milder weather I may run a little more dirt over things.

[renny1]

Another question for Marty:
You said in the DVD that you need more tension when you use steel screen. Can you explain the reason why you need more tension? I understand the use and need for tension, just can't figure out why screen influences it. As you can tell I have never used steel screen but I have a roll here I want to try. thanks

Question not just for Marty, all responses appreciated.

[trappnman]

because the dirt and screen over the pan,ad wgt, which in effect reduces tension

[braveheart]

It make for a bigger surface are for the weight of the dirt all pushing down on the pan.Then if you get any rain or wet snow even more.You will never set another trap with out it once you start using screen.If they step in between the jaws and they hit the screen you will own them.Also with the heavy pan tension you will not catch many grubby grinner's and little skunks.I have had rabbits dust on the trap and never fire it off also.

[Deleted]

I certainly have no intention of hijacking Aaron's thread but I'm going to take the opportunity to possibly keep a discussion going about soft dirt.  Right or wrong I DO NOT pack or pat down the dirt in and around my sets other than to bed my trap solid ads I can.  Depending on time of year, I have about 3/4" of soft dirt over my trap AND set if I'm using a dirt hole and barely a 1/4" over my trap and set in freezing weather, I also use peat from day one under the dirt which doesn't pack worth a crap so I don't have a foundation of packed dirt over or under the unpackable peat.  


I do not understand why folks think or feel they need packed or compressed dirt over the set OR over and around the trap, yet sift loose dirt over the entire set when finished???  A dirt hole set is a replica of an animal's digging and unless the animals in my neck of the woods are different, don't pack the dirt after they've dug a hole and then kick loose dirt over the trap and set!!!  I just watched another video (of many showing the same thing) where the trapper went to great pains not only to bed the trap solid (I'm cool with that) but hammered away and pounded the dirt with his fist out away from the trap so "everything is very firm where the coyote steps"!  WHY I ask?  Isn't "disturbed dirt" just that, loose/soft dirt???

[braveheart]

I get my trap bedded solid go around the out side edge pat it solid with my hand.I throw the dirt around the trap area with my hand if I can't use out side dirt to blend in the pattern.I don't want a sifted pattern look.It should be feathered out look.I want everything solid except inside the jaws.I make a good size trap bed this year even with wax paper down first the moisture came through the wax paper.

[Deleted]

If you are saying you pack the dirt around the trap tight to the jaws in order to bed and stabilize it, I agree.  If you're packing dirt out away from the trap because you want the canine to step on solid ground within the dirt hole set, what is the reason behind that.  Let me clarify, I'm not talking about the actual stabilizing of a trap in a set, I'm talkin about once the trap is beded the trapper continues to pack and tamp the dirt within the entire pattern. then gives everything a sifted covering.

[trappnman]

I think what you said never, goes back to when I was talking about setting in sand, which I like, because the bed, pattern, everything is same-o insofar as consistency, color, etc

I believe strongly that consistency is the key- that's why I try to dig my actual bed, as close to the trap as I can get. I do find that hard, hard, hard and then soft, does invoke digging and avoidance not of the set but the trap bed.

so those that pack it down away from the bed I understand- I go the opposite though, making the extended pattern soft, by broadcasting loose dirt throughout that pattern

and far, far more so using peat- I gave up on peat multiple times, but once I start5ed using peat "like I owned all the peat in the world" and really spread it out over the extended pattern, and even handfuls beyond- ALL my peat problems went away.

I only tried coal shale once, and one thing that I liked about that was how dense it was- so in essense, it was same density of untouched ground.

[braveheart]

I do it around the trap bed area.I have been catching more and more coyotes and even cats by both front legs.I don't consider fox as they are pouncers.I don't want hard ground and have the animal working the set set on to soft ground.I try to make my dirt hole like a rabbit hole fan out the dirt more and hole deep.All ground is hard except at entrance of hole that would be over my trap.

[Deleted]

Maybe I've plowed this ground before about this "firm dirt" or "packing dirt" thing and just don't remember but yes, our recent discussions sort of brought it back up for me.  

I watched a video by a noted lure maker/trapper who showed his version of the deep, step-down dirt hole and I ask him what he did with the dirt piled at his knees?  He replied that he packed it down rather then spread it out or even just leave it as loose dirt.  Two other videos I've watched recently showed two different trappers making what I would call the "standard" dirt hole set with just a lower are over the trap and a pattern of modest size, maybe 15"-18" in diameter.  

Both of these fellas packed the poop out of the entire pattern!  One used a cap, the other didn't but both really worked at packing the devil out of the pattern before sifting dirt over it.  Both remarked that they didn't want the coyote to "feel" soft dirt!!!!  Yet, these folks make soft dirt to some depth with their sifted dirt covering!!  I've also watched a noted trapper make his version of the deep, step-down dirt hole and he packed everything that was below ground level, not just immediately around the trap in order to bed it.  He went from the edge of the hole back to the upper lip of the virgin ground where the pattern stopped.

So, this is the "packing dirt" theory that I was looking to hear the folks here's take on it.  Every time I see or hear this "packing dirt" stuff I have to wonder where it started because dug dirt is soft dirt.  The ONLY theory I can come up with is the theory revolves around aging of the set as if a coyote or fox has repeatedly visited the set enough and pranced around on the pattern enough to pack the dirt which to me is absolutely absurd to me!!!  

[trappnman]

I guess in a way I do the same thing-

I want the trap bed, and the pattern, to be the same. There should be no differences going from the extended pattern to the trap bed- I want it all the same whether all hard, or all soft.

And I'll do what it takes to accomplish that. for me, that means adding soft dirt to the pattern- far easier, esp when my extended pattern is made with a mattock- the pattern is rough, irregular, etc- so I use what is need to make that same look, up to and into the trap bed pattern itself

different (for me) = trouble

[Deleted]

All right, I just went back and watched you making that 1st set in your video, maybe we're talking apples & oranges here between the trap bed and the pattern.  Your "pattern" is large and just brushed-ou,t leftover dirt, whereas your "bed" is quite small and all packed.  In fact, small enough that when you "packed" and bedded the trap there was little room for more than your fist around the trap, so where the trap sits below grade winds-up all being packed before the sifting-over.  The question is in regards to your set, are you bedding the trap when you pack OR are you with intent, making a firm surface in entire below grade area where the coyote needs to step to be caught?  

You also use guides below grade so it would appear o me that the coyote really can't or isn't going yo step on anything firm at all, just the pan unless your guides are off.  Even if the coyite ignores your guides and steps between them, does it matter that under the sfted covering the dirt is packed solid.  Why does it matter if the coyote sinks into your sifting 3/4" to your packed dirt or 1.5" of loose dirt because the coyote already has walked through the dirt you spread out which is loose dirt.