the perfect coyote set

[trappnman]

while research is great, and I can't get enough- things that you see in the real world often puts things into perspective.

and while squirrels and dogs and other critters aren't coyotes, I truly beleive that watching other animals gives us very real insights into what a coyote is going to do.

a couple recent examples arehow my dog reacts to new things, and even animals like squirrels react to when presewnted with something new or strange. Last week, I put up a birdhouse on a wood fence, a fence the squirrels use daily by running along the top. I put that birdhouse up so the top was inches below the top rail- and watched a squirrel come along the fence, stop 10-12 feet from the birdhouse, go back, sit, try again- and found this repeated over and over until he gave up and found a new path. Few days later, I watched another (or same, who knows) come up very slowly to about 5 feet- stand up-then ran like hell to get by it. now, they go by it like it was always there.

put a flower pot into a new place in the yard, and my dog Buddy will stop, stiff legged approach it, smell it good, be cautious-= then next day...its always been there.

Coyotes we know mirror that behavior, and take it to new heights.

I think we can all agree that a coyote will show at least some negative behaviors when encountering novel items- and brings truth to the point that in some ways, its easier to catch a coyote outside of his usual travel routes. doing that however brings in a new problem- while his reactions to new things isn't the same as familar territory, his awareness of the set, and his inclination to not work it, increases.

So the ideal situation is to be in his familar range, but with sets that appease those (to us) negative traits of avoidance and skittishness.

so in an effort to refine my mechanics, I often come to the question- WHAT can I do, at that set, to decease such behaviors?

I've got my thoughts, but would like to hear others opionons as to what they do, at a set, to negate these behaviors.

[RdFx]

I think it depends on the yote and his past and recent experiences. One can make subtle (flat, blind) sets and they work well for the majority of yotes same as with big flashy dirt holes or subtle dirt or mouse hole type sets. When one gets a certain type of set make up that produces, the trapper uses it. When things dont work and you know the animals are there and know the sets are there, its either take out your bag of tricks ( if you have time) and make completely differant type of sets . On the other end you know your sets work and you have time, you leave them alone till they click or you pull your line.

[trappnman]

agreed- but I was more wondering about what you would do to a set, if you came in a place, wanted to make 1 set and catch that coyote- knowing his reactions to new things, lure, urine, bait ?.

[Deleted]

May 13, 2015 17:42:15 GMT -6 @never said:

I have that question presented to me literally every day for the past maybe 6-7 years.  Maybe it has to do with working small parcels of land, you know, 40-80-up to 200 acres that are surrounded by other parcels of similar size.  Size of parcel is only relevant due to OTHER folks TRYING to trap coyote on them while I'm trying to trap on the adjacent properties.  If they are on those parcels and they are, I'm not!!  So, what types of sets are those coyotes traveling ALL of those parcels seeing?  They are seeing DIRT HOLE SETS!!!  Remember, the coyotes aren't taveling 3-4 miles before encountering a dirt hle set, I'm talking in 100's of yards!  They'e seeing and smelling some sort of take on the dirt hole set along with a sprinkling of piss posts and flats. They are seeing a HOLE(usually a larege one from what I've observed) and some sort of dirt pattern.

If I want to be consistently successful, I have proven to need NOT use a large hole and NOT have a large dirt pattern!!  Sorry 1080, but that is what it is in Mid-Michigan!  It has got to the point in the last few years that my deep snow, trail sets OUT PERFORM any and every scented set placed earlier on those parcels.  If I can't catch them on bare ground, I come back after deep snow and quickly hurt them badly and do it quickly!!

The old saying that "no man is an island" does in fact pertain to coyote trapping in my local.  Basically I'm not alone in my pursuit, I have land owners trying to trap coyote and other folks trapping all around me, on adjacent properties in many areas within a few 100 of yards and they ALL use dirt hole sets!  WHY would I want to use a set with a large hole and a pattern whenever Tom, Dick, and Harry are??  I learnt this very, very well in the late 70's and early 80's when trapping fox and would be completely surrounded by want-to-be fox trappers.  DON"T USE WHAT THEY ARE USING!!!
 
Now I'm going to raise the ante here in this discussion and it has to due with coyote density.  You folks who have, just as an example of comparison, 20+ coyote that regularly use any one section of ground think they can compare or correlate tactics and success rates to someone who has 3-4 coyote traveling a section are not understanding logistics because you aren't comparing apples to apples!!  That type of comparison is invalid!!  You can tell me how coyotes within your realm of circumstances act and your success rate BUT you can't relate or certainly can't correlate objectively to where I trap due to the far smaller population AND extra human infringement!

LOL!  I'm going to drag in my friend, Jim here.  In no way can his jack pine plains (if that's where he's trapping) can be compared(though it's all wooded) to where I trap and he's only 130-140 miles north of me as the crow flies.   If he's out in the JP Plains, he has 1/4 mile sections of fire lanes and NO PEOPLE(no residences), he may have other trappers to deal with and population density differences BUT his isn't mine!!  Whatever set Jim uses under his conditions may work great for him but even without knowing, if it has a large hole, not for me.   I cannot trap under similar circumstances, with different coyote population densities, and with numerous residences within any and all given sections, even on my deer hunting acreages, compared to anyone else!

So in order to answer Steve's question, there is not a "one answer fits all" answer!  For me, it certainly isn't a large dirt hole set!!  

I've mentioned this before about Clint Locklear's "Teacher's of the NIght" coyote video, regardless of your opinion of the person, LOOK to the video!  It's patently obvious the coyote's reaction to something out of place in familar areas!  

[trappnman]

no there isn't one thing that fits all- and thats moot really- what I am more interested in discussing- is what you consider necesary to make a set the best.

now- having said that- let me pose this- IF you didn't have constant interaction from other trappers- would oyu think a bind set sans perhaps lure and bait- to be the best producer you could choose?

haven't seen the video, but I know a coyotes reaction to something new- and thats really the query- what do I need to do, to minimize those reactions?

while not an unexploted population here, coyote men that set more than a few traps are rare here, thus I have no worries about other trappers- and my farm country makes human scent commonplace

[Deleted]

May 13, 2015 18:42:05 GMT -6 trappnman said:

no there isn't one thing that fits all- and thats moot really- what I am more interested in discussing- is what you consider necesary to make a set the best.

now- having said that- let me pose this- IF you didn't have constant interaction from other trappers- would oyu think a bind set sans perhaps lure and bait- to be the best producer you could choose?

while not an unexploted population here, coyote men that set more than a few traps are rare here, thus I have no worries about other trappers- and my farm country makes human scent commonplace

No, I would not think a blind set under those circumstances to be the best.  The next facet would be to determine whether or not your set is in familiar or unfamiliar territory.  Are you setting in a travel way that has dispersed animals regularly using it OR are you inside a pack's home area.  I have been on different properties over the years that from day one, no coyote will approach a hole set!  I stress day one because there can't be anyone on an adjacent property earlier to screw things up for me with large holes.

Pertaining to the last sentence, it's not human scent(as my opinion) I perceive as the problem, it's the association of the large hole and "applied" scent.  It's pretty tough to get rid of the applied scent except with a blind set but the hole is the visual stimuli that sets the table to either make a catch or have the coyote exhibit fear and initial avoidance in my opinion.

Now folks may think, well it's "his" hole", "his" pattern, or it's just plain "his particular set" that is causing avoidance?  Well, how many ways it there to drill a hole to make it look like a hole in the ground that smells??  This "looks like a hole" business brings up another point, what does a coyote digging look like to everyone?  Does every hole we trappers dig "look" like it was done by a coyote?  Does everyone's coyotes dig a hole and scatter the dirt in a wide pattern?  Mine don't so WHYwouldI make a set with a wide pattern?  Because somebody said that's the way it's suppose to be??

So back to Steve's original question, studies enlighten us that visual stimuli is very important to the coyote BUT there are qualifiers to that statement.  Again, back to the original question, familiar or unfamiliar territory is believed to make a difference.  If it's then based on whether or not the territory is familiar or not, the hole isn't an issue BUT we are hard pressed to distinguish what typeof territory it is  so we're back to the basic and common denominator, THE HOLE!!!  The visual stimuli!!  If we ascertain visual stimuli is causing avoidance, WHY would you use it knowing you are missing a% of the coyotes available??  UNLESS, UNLESS, you had a high general population of coyote of which there is a high % of the coyote that are seeing/visiting/available were not "locals/residence" animals!!  

I have proved it to myself in my territory that the less visual stimuli Ihave at my set the better and I guess that's all that is important because I'm certainly not trying to convert or debate the virtues of a set made with no hole of a small hole.  To me boils down to the set location when talking holes whether or not there is an influx of coyotes from other territories making where the set is located in "unfamiliar" teritory and more suppsectable to approach AND coyote population density.  The more (numbers) coyote that "see" your set during any given time period means you'll have a higher probability of a catch even though a high % avoid the visual stimuli!  10% of 3 coyotes is a hell of a lot less of a chance of a catch then 10% of 9!!!!




 

[braveheart]

I think a well blended set would be best like a flat set.Had a place years ago I set only mafia sets and slammed the coyotes and fox.It was a unused pasture with all the old trails.The coyotes would not go near a dirt hole. The pasture was heading toward a old farmer dead pile.

[trappnman]

this is taking a different turn, but lets go with it....

Wiley E always made the point coyotes are coyotes, and while singular areas might have small differences in behaviors, that overall- behaviors were innate, and thus common to all.

WHY would a coyote be afraid of a hole? Holes are a daily occurance for a coyote, and much of the time those holes have food, or at least interesting food smells by them- holes mean voles (our #1 food source here)and mice and bunnies and gophers and lots of little critters.

I used to beleive that my coyotes, would not work hole sets well. I can remember getting into many debates with Bob W on just that subject. so I relyed far more on flat sets, and even had a couple of years where I made nothing but flat sets. and did good. My first hole sets that started me away from flat sets as my go to set, was the old stepdown set- and by modifications of that, and more knowledge on behaviors, I eventually got to the point where I make few if any flat sets- not that they don't work, but they do, IMO, take longer to produce.

Now folks may think, well it's "his" hole", "his" pattern, or it's just plain "his particular set" that is causing avoidance? Well, how many ways it there to drill a hole to make it look like a hole in the ground that smells??

I do think just that- there might be only a couple ways to drill a hole, but where and how that hole is presented is what is key.

for example, a hole that allows a coyote to work it from behind, or the side, or with a small pattern might get labeled as natural avoidance, but if you knew he was there- its not avoidance its that his curiosity was satisfied w/o going over the trap.

I know there are plenty that don't agree- but I've been of the opinion for decades, that you cannot have too much in the way of attractions to a coyote- insofar as odors and thus I pack that hole with at least 5 different odors- bait, natural bait, 2 lures and urine.

and I also believe in extremes- that is concerning patterns- I'm of the belief that you either need NO pattern, or a large pattern- that holes with small, fox type patterns are far less effective becasue I find the inclination of a coyote is to avoid small patterns- stepping around or aside them. A pattern that is big enough (and at least 180 if not more) forces the coyote to cross that pattern.

maybe we should break this up into 2 discussions- flat sets (or non hole sets to make it broader) and hole sets (classic dirtholes, not wobble holes on non patterned sets)

hole sets- 2 things come to mind- the depth of the hole, and the pattern. Depth of the hole is easy- I drill as deep as the auger will let me. Patterns are another thing. I've come to believe that the pattern is not only important, but paramount to increased success. A good example is peat- I tried peat a couple of times, trying to use as little as possible, and found it to be sadly lacking. I gave up on it for lots of years, but started again 5-6 years ago. While I prefer not ot use peat, I've found by going in the opposite direction of instead of using the minimum, I use a goodly amount at the set- peat in at least a 180, in a wide pattern 3-5 feet depending of set and have found that where a little causes odd behviors, a lot does not- get that coyote walking over the peat for multiple steps before te hole, and "trap" avoidance and diggin drops to the point where its no more a concern than dirt. I feel this same thought, translates quite well to sets with dirt/duff as well.

I think a set with solid ground all around the set, with just a hole and a small, trap pattern will "spook" a lot of coyotes. but thats not the hole, its the approach.

flat sets- I still make my flat sets with holes albeit it small holes- even on flat sets I want multiple attractions. and I want it to be awalkthrough type flat set- too often, even with good lures and construction of sets, a sniff is often all he wants to do- so I want to keep him there the longest.

comments welcome....

[Deleted]

Only time for a short reply now.  

I'm also a firm believer in multiple scents at a set.

Secondly, yes, the coyote sees lots of holes everyday of the week BUT what I was getting at is that he sees AND smells a hell of a lot of holes made by trapper regardless of the person's experience.  From the sets I've seen, the over all look of these sets vary greatly BUT one thing for certain is that they all have a hole, a visual stimuli.  Now I believe through association with bad experiences involving "the hole" such as possibly heavy human scent over the set, or better yet I hear from folks trying to trap coyotes and they tell me its PINCH-PINCH-PINCH and using every size, untreated, off the store shelf, trap imaginable including grandpa's muskrat traps.

Patterns, I'm curious as to why folks feel it's natural for a coyote to dig and make a large, spread-out pattern?  I'm serious when I say I have in-memory not seen this!!  Whether it's a natural digging I find or a coyote has worked my set after I've pulled and gone.  Because I'm retired and am constantly scouting old and new properties throughout the year when I'm not checking traps I observe a lot of coyote digging.  They come in difference sizes but none are large and spread out.  They are all just a pile of dirt and the size only relative to what was excavated, some quite intact and some will be partially trampled but that's it.  

Still talking about the pattern, why is a pile troublesome to the trapper or the set?  it's very obvious how the coyote approaches and where it stands/pauses, and how it positions its body to work the set.  The most interesting thing is that regardless which coyote happens along, the like movements are in my judgement an inherent tendency.  In JC Conner'sdirthole video he makes two sets and describes the principle behind the "pile" and his thoughts correlate with my very thoughts back in the early 70's with fox.  "The pile" is using those inherent but corresponding tendencies just as the large, spread out pattern. 

Got to take the wife to our Dodger's minior league (A) this morning.  There are 70 home games a season and she doesn't miss a single one unless one of us is sick.  Regardless of the weather we're there! LOL

[trappnman]

I don't think that the large pattern is "natural" (but not unnatural either) but I do think it alleviates the tendency a coyote has to step over or around, a perfectly smooth pattern in front of a hole. Why he does this, don't really know, but I've seen it happen time after time- the l;arge pattern is to get him used ot walking on loose dirt.

When I went to WY, with al lsand, I found that digigng and avoidance were almost non existent. Talking to Dave Hastings about that observation, and he said hisd opinion as to why, was simply that all around the set, the same dirt (feel, texture, color) was present not only at the set, but al laround. contrast that ot here- solid ground, with a loose dirt pattern at the hole. To me, the extended pattern is to make a large area around the set, the same.

hope you get a win. Twins have been fun to watch lately- wish we had a minor league tweam close

[Deleted]

May 14, 2015 9:10:02 GMT -6 trappnman said:

I don't think that the large pattern is "natural" (but not unnatural either) but I do think it alleviates the tendency a coyote has to step over or around, a perfectly smooth pattern in front of a hole. Why he does this, don't really know, but I've seen it happen time after time- the l;arge pattern is to get him used ot walking on loose dirt.

When I went to WY, with al lsand, I found that digigng and avoidance were almost non existent. Talking to Dave Hastings about that observation, and he said hisd opinion as to why, was simply that all around the set, the same dirt (feel, texture, color) was present not only at the set, but al laround. contrast that ot here- solid ground, with a loose dirt pattern at the hole. To me, the extended pattern is to make a large area around the set, the same.

hope you get a win. Twins have been fun to watch lately- wish we had a minor league tweam close

Therein lies the burr!  When an animal excavates a hole, that excavated dirt is loose, it's almost impossible to be packed by the digging animal.  I have never agreed with the theory.  Many, many times to almost always when I find where a fox OR coyote has dug out a hole I can see that the canine not only stepped into the pile of soft, excavated dirt but also, during the digging process, stepped midway down the digging on the slope(almost forced to do) and ALWAYS stepped on both sides of the excavation on unaffected soil!  

I totally agree about the smooth, unblemished dirt over the trap on the principle that it looks different and actually creates an edge effect.  I don't agree that softness is the cause of an avoidance problem, if it were the coyote would have to actually step into the smooth, softness first and feel it being different, no, my thinking is the visual the two surfaces or textures cause.

The scenario-  A coyote digs a hole 12-14" deep x 4-5" in diameter and when he digs the hole, he's usually pulling the dirt up out of the excavation at about a 45* slope/slant from the bottom of the hole into a pile maybe two good shovels worth, noticeable, not just a couple of handfuls and leaves.  Another coyote comes along and sees the pile of fresh dirt and also sees the hole.  Now do we believe the coyote strolls right in for a look or does the coyote exhibit a neophobic response to seeing this new pile of dirt(familiar territory this story).  As the coyote decides to approach the set as we hope and anticipate, where or when will it has to step on soft, excavated dirt?  There are only two places where it could occur, one is if he steps onto the pile or steps down onto the slope!  So, the coyote can literally walk right up to the edge of the pile or the excavation itself and never leave firm, undisturbed ground!  Only if that coyote decides it likes the smells enough coming from the bottom of the hole would it commit.  When it commits where will it step?  It's step on loose dirt since that's all there is except where it's standing deciding what it want s to do.

I just watched a Utube video a couple of weeks ago by a noted trapper, author, and scent manufacturer make a deep, step-down set.  Everything was fine until I noticed that he didn't do anything with the excavated dirt piled against his knees.  I wrote him and ask what he did with it.  He told me that he packed that excavated dirt solid!  Now think about that scenario, he packed the dirt solid on the top edge/straight-in approach BUT-BUT the dirt inside the excavation and over his trap was soft.  I certainly wouldn't tell him that his packing of the dirt on the approach/pattern was counterproductive because he really needed to spread that dirt out to prepare the coyote to step in loose dirt!!!

I will not say that my observations are correct or my thought process is correct but it's been that burr that has tweaked my commonscense for a long time to the drgree it's on my mind in the field and I still fail to see the rational of it. 

By golly, we did get a win over the Dayton Dragons (Reds team) and finally we had a very pretty day for baseball watching.

[braveheart]

the dirt pattern what I make resembles the hole a rabbit makes.I to bury my hole very deep but also run my dirt a little longer back also.I had problems in the pasture I was talking about because the farmer was trying to trap them.I think a well blended and aged dirt pattern would eventually catch every coyote.

[trappnman]

I can't disagree with that never, because I think texture and color (contrast) are indeed a big part of it.

I guess the moral of Dave's thought was more "different" at the pattern.

let me add this- on coon, having soft dirt in a wide pattern, is absolutely needed to stop digging and flipping traps at the set. And I think I keep that in mind on coyotes as well- the principle being to have the coon be used to soft dirt, find nothing in the soft dirt and by the time he gets to the trap, he no longer has curiosity about that soft dirt (soft dirt, IMO, causes the coon to dig and root & yes, coon root with their noses A LOT)

With coyotes- I think that in most cases, you need to have the coyote walk over whatever is your pattern cover, before the trap- that is, that small pattern that sticks out so much from all else, is a very poor setup and will be avoided by more coyotes than not.

the goal for me, is to give the coyote no choice but to walk into the pattern to satisfy his curiosity (and by guides, backing, set construction getting him to come in from the right direction)is critical-

[Deleted]

May 15, 2015 5:15:43 GMT -6 braveheart said:

I had problems in the pasture I was talking about because the farmer was trying to trap them.I think a well blended and aged dirt pattern would eventually catch every coyote.

Yup and they all use holes!  More and more property owners want to trap themselves for their bunnies, their deer, their partridge, etc plus they want one to mount, theynwant a coule for throws, they want, they want, they want, and they all use dirt HOLES!!

Just this spring I walked a new property that I was going to trap last winter but the death and circumstanses stopped all trapping.  I saw that there were coyote and after a through scout, stopped and spoke with the owners.  He told me a fella down the road is a trapper and he tried for 2 years to trap the coyote and couldn't catch any.  I'm thinking o-oh.  I ask him if this trapper mentioned why he couldn't catch any coyote and the owner replied that the trapper was having snapped traps.  I said wellthat could have been from the deer and/or coon and the owner says no, the trappe says the coyote were "pulling out of his traps"!.  As I'm walking back to the truck I'm thinking "nuts, here it is again, the same old bs, the old "oh by the way!" LOL



I forgot to acknowledge Steve's original thread-starter about the squirrels.  My wife has been feeding squirrels for many years and I mean serious feeding with walnuts by the 100lbs and the same with peanuts in the shell.  So, as with Steve's observations I've made mine from literally 20 years of watching how they do things and how their brains work.  I as well, quickly correlated their reaction to new objects in their familiar territory to that of my coyotes.  It's extremely obvious and interesting as to how long specific squirrels get used to the new object.  Some squirrels will take 2 hours and others well over a day before the new becomes commonplace.



I'll take things a little further which may or may not be relevant to coyotes but it's an observation.  My dad when he was alive hated squirrels and he lived next door to the "Squirrel Mom" so he trapped them in live traps.  He could catch all of the fox squirrels but hardly ever a gray or black.  So he started studying this problem of wiping out the squirrel population of all species.  His observations were that when he'd catch a fox squirrel and while it was carrying on and trying to get out all of the other squirrels coming into the yard noticed the caught squirrel and though did't approach the trap he said they were fearful in their manner.

All he did was sit a live trap out in the middl of his backyard baited with "Squirrel Mom's" walnuts which is the favorite nut that the squirrels will go to get efforts to get at.  Well, once he'd catch a fox he'd continue to catch more fox squirrels BUT the grays and blacks WOULD NOT come near the empty but baited trap even though it no longer was a "foreign or not normal object" in familiar territory.

[trappnman]

heres an observation that blows me away-

in summer, coyotes have zero problems approaching a gopher trap, one where I left sweat and tons of human scent to eat the gophers. and occasionally, I get a coyote that goes to trap after trap, digs it up whether gopher or not, just from the scent on the trap. I've even caught a couple of pupsd over the years in my coyote traps, and I get snapped traps from the coyotes as well

no hesitation, no fooling around-

yet in fall..............

[Deleted]

Hey, if my writings are getting too long, let me know and I'll back-off.

Here is a story that I've written before but I think it's very appropriate in this discussion of sets and holes.
Some years ago I had an 80 tucked into some great brushy deer country that had a family living and hanging close.  I never found the den but summer scouting showed it had to be relatively close by.  This 80 had an excavation of about 2 acres in size which held water.  The coyote played on the sand piles and i found where they hunted and killed ducks in the fall off the big pit as well as several smaller pits.

I got on the property after hard water and with less than 1" of snow I could see coyote tracks everywhere.  UP and down the sand piles all over the ice as you'd understand, coyote, especially pups seem to love playing on ice.  I picked two set locations about 60'-70' across from each other near where the coyote appeared to favor coming on and off the ice.  I made each set a dirt hole and the hole was dug so it was maybe 4"-5" across and very noticeable out on the ice.  I was using a pull-behind sled for my gear so when I finished the sets I pulled the sled all over the 2 acres rather then just to the sets and away thinking I was being real clever. LOL

Two nights later we got 2" of fresh snow which put me in hog-heaven because everything was now erased, everything EXCPT the HOLES.  I could easily see both holes while driving the 2-track on the pit's edge.  The next night, 3rd night I could see coyote tracks all over the part of the pit I could see first.  I figured I'd have two catches.  WRONG!!  As I pulled up at the far end of the pit where my sets were I could see no disturbance which was a real puzzle with all the tracks.  I walked back to the end farthest away from the sets and walked toward them.  Lots of activity until I got within maybe 40'+-.  I saw where a single large track had come and stopped downwind from one hole, kind of did a shuffle and walked directly across the ice to the 2nd hole staying the same distance away, shuffled, turned and went back down the pit.  For 13 consecutive nights NOT A SINGLE COYOTE CROSSED THAT LINE OF TRACKS and they returned to the pit twice in those 13 nights!!!!

Now, jump forward 5 years.  I hadn't been in that properties area for those years but was reestablishing a line and adding new properties.  I stopped and spoke with the owner and he told me two guys had "tried" to trap coyotes there for the past 3 years and had only caught 1 and he wasn't happy so he kicked them off and gave the property back to me.  I questioned him as whether or not these two fellas told him anything about their problem.  He said he was out with the backhoe one day when they were checking traps and they said the coyotes would not come near their sets and they showed him a set by his 2-track.  He said he could see a hole and they told him "there was a trap buried in front of it."

Now I've related two of may observations and instances that involve a negative toward a dirt hole set.  I'm ot the smartest tack in the stretcher but I firmly believe there is more sign to be read then just a coyote's track, there's sign in the coyote's attitude to be read as well.

[trappnman]

never too long never...lol

Could not agree more- the attitude is the MAIN thing in my opinion. and my contention is that attitude, is directly related to WHERE the coyoe is.

I beleive that the same set, the same lures, everything identical- will in 1 location be a killer on coyotes, and in another, not so much.

This hapens to be every year- you have al ocation with a few sets- you catch a couple of coyotes in one set, the others, very much nearby, go untouched. Even when a set gets wore out from catches, and new set or sets are put in- it still seems like the "original set" is the producer.

very much a micro situation in, what I would think, is a macro type world.

I've often thought as to why, and all I can come up with, is THAT set, is exactly where it needs to be. And the others are not.

and one could extend that reasoning to locations that vary somewhat year ot year. A very good example for me, is the rotation of crops. I have multiple farms, where the crops are corn and beans- and they are biannual good locations- when the beans are where "I want them to be" I slay them- when its corn there, not so- in fact, some farms I only trap every other year because of that.

Coyotes there, but not working the sets like they should.

in your pit scenario, one thing I'd have to wonder- would flat sets have done any different?

[Deleted]

May 15, 2015 7:59:23 GMT -6 trappnman said:

never too long never...lol

in your pit scenario, one thing I'd have to wonder- would flat sets have done any different?

Well there was only two stimuli available to that one coyote, the hole and the scents.  Both stimuli I'm sure were noticed BUT which caused the avoidance of the two.  There was absolutely no visible trace that I'd been there due to the couple inches of fresh snow.  Besides the fresh snow I with purpose and forethought pulled my sled allover that pit from the sets all the way down to the other end and did a coule loop-t-loops down there.  With the fresh snow covering all my sledding, was no concernto the coyotes.  Nope, it had to be the holes, stark black holes in a snow white background sticking out directly at the coyotes.  Was the contrast too sharp/defined and if it was then a person would have to ask themselves is there a micro involvement going on pretaining only to the hole?

When I first started trapping this property I'd quickly catch one coyote(pup) in a walk-thru, never in a dirt hole and immediately the coyotes would leave and not return for the duration of my time which was anywhere from 10-13 nights.  This was also the property where those two guys could only catch 1 coyote in 3 years using dirt hole sets.  It took me 2 years(I'm a slow learner)  to understand that if I wanted to catch coyote on that property i needed to not use scents or holes, only then could I catch several quickly before the rest vanished.

Secondary to that one coyote(big footed) is that other coyotes did come to the line of it's tracks but NEVER crossed them as if the first coyote had put up a glass wall!!  God I love coyotes the dirty ba_turds! LOL

[trappnman]

One thing about trapping a month in snow this year, was I trapped a month in snow instead of a few days here and there.

What we got was a dumping of snow early, then cold and windy, with small squalls coming in putting down a skiff to an inch or so every few days.

so it was a constant daily decision as to what to do with sets- clear them or leave them.

I found my best success, was to clear the holes with end of rake (even if partially visible) and then use the rake to clear the pattern off of the sets within reason.

many times on sets with little to no indication of anything depressed or different in front of hole- just that as you say stark black and white contrast-I'd have tracks come up to set (8-15'), often times tracking all over, but would not get closer. I did catch coyotes at sets left untouched with just the hole showing as well, but the refusals were just too obvious. As never says, I might not be the sharpest tack- but figured that out quickly.

Would a better set have convinced him to come in? Different lures or bait? I don't know. and really, thats the crux of why I started this discussion-

Those that haven't trapped not only coyotes in the snow, but coon etc as well, are missing a "free" education.

While I do believe that what you see a coyote do on snow, he is doing as well on bare ground. I do beleive that- but damn it all- I also see evidence that they DO change behaviors, at least a little, with snow on the ground.

[Deleted]

I remember when you were posting those snow photos I listened close as to what you were also describing as the coyotes reaction just as you repeated with your last reply.  At the time of the photos and now, do you realize or believe the coyote smelled your scents?  If your answer is yes, then with the snow cover do you need the visual stimuli of the hole or partial hole?  The coyote know there's something there because they can smell it my opinion and hence the milling BUT-BUT they were hesitant to commit or at least a percentage were because you still were catching them. 

So, lets reevaluate the scene, if they weren't interested in the scents, I believe they would hardly hesitate let alone visit the set.  What attracted the coyote, the hole or the scent?  Again it's only my opinion and I'm not stacking coyote to beat the band and a big numbers coyote trapper by any means but it's been my observations literally 100% that it's the scents that do the attracting especially with snow cover.  Why I say that is I NEVER remove the snow cover until it's closing in on maybe 4", I love 2" and happy with 3" unless II see that it's getting crusty and than I remove it BUT BUT I immediately use maybe 1/2" of fresh snow from the surrounding area to cover before I leave.  Remember I'm not using a dirt hole and when the snow reaches 6"-8" I no longer use scented sets.