next year

[trappnman]

trapping is an odd business- I made more in 18 days of trapping gophers, than I did in 6 weeks of coyote trapping. and that's gross- if you look at expenses, it would be even more of a discrepancy.

but......gophers is a job, and fur is more a labor of love.

I find that reading stuff n the internet sometimes boggles my mind- when I read that you can't make money of $4 rats. etc/ Good grief- if you cannot make a profit on $4 rats, you either aren't trapping, or are including the house, kids college fund and your new $50,000 pickup as direct expenses. And lets be real- if you use your truck for the other 11 months of the year, you really cannot count it as an entire direct expense, and instead need to go to the $.56 (or whatever) mileage reimbursement for true vehicle costs, and other costs need to be applied only to what directly goes to that production.

I use my trapping truck at least 11 months of the year- individual costs per fur bearer or animal trapped, vary of course, but I make a PROFIT on every species I trap, or frankly I wouldn't trap them.

the crux of the matter is of course how much profit? $10 rats give you an extra $6 that should be pure profit- you don't have that with $4 rats, but you still have profit on those rats.

But even with fur prices as low as they are- every trapper that WANTS to, can surely make a profit for his work.

Which brings us to next year. I'm a glass half full kind of guy, and I've been down the road a few times and doom and gloom in the spring, usually isn't as bad in reality as in the anticipation.

what would make me happy, or at least happy enough, would be to have coon at $15-20, mink $25-30 (males) rats $4-5 beaver $25^ and coyotes at least in the $30s. At those prices, I could make not only a good profit, but a very good profit.

One thing I've done over the past few years, is to try to trap as "smart" as I can, saving miles and time to get the most productive line- and for the most part, I'm successful in doing that. But all the planning in the world, doesn't prepare you for trapping land for a month with snow and blowing snow-

It becomes quite apparent that all the planning in the world insofar as management means nothing if the weather turns against you.

I've had people ask- with the low prices, will I fur trap this year? and my answer is simple- I'm a trapper.

I have no plans to not approach this fall like any other farm- I've already (through new gopher farms) picked up a number of new coyote places, and plan on going into the season trying for my best number year yet-

anyone else getting out of the game. or are you a trapper too?

[musher]

I'll be trapping but I know if a few that won't.

I'll probably sell local to a peddlar, though .... or Fur Harvesters.

[braveheart]

I am still trapping beaver for ADC.I will out the second week of season trapping coyotes.Already picked up a mountain of new ground.When they cover me in dirt I will take some time off.
Marty

[blackhammer]

I will be out there also. Got back from a beaver line up north a week ago. Looks like after expenses maybe made a little money. Actually been trapping a few gophers this week. Less than six months fur trapping again. Could get a real job but probably try to do a bunch of farm labor until then. Ah the life of a free trapper. lol I will say these prices are making me really think. Might have to think about working and part time trapping to some degree.Come fall than darn trapline calls to a guy. Trying to brainstorm about ways to make trapping pay more and also getting a plan on how maybe to start marketing better in this market.

[coyotus]

I'll trap.What depends on what animal/animals I think I can make money on.
Steve have you ever sat down and figured out what it costs you to produce a fur bearer?Which ever animal you produce will have it's own "average" cost to produce.The total cost ie wear and tear(depreciation) on the vehicle,fuel costs,tires,insurance,bait,urine lures,cost/depreciation of traps,stakes,setting equipment(broken,worn out and/or lost)your labor cost(what are you worth per hour? or what are you willing to work for per hour?) and equipment to put up the fur.
I would almost be willing to bet your $30.00 average coyotes cost you real close to or slightly over $19.00 a piece to produce.I've been figuring my production costs since the 1980's it's a real eye opener.
coyotus

[prioritytimberland]

Okay Mr. Gappa let's turn this question around. What are the lowest prices that you (or anyone else) willing to work for? If coon were $8, mink $10, rats $3, beaver $12 and coyote $15 would you hang up the traps?

[redsnow]

I'll trap, some. Bad situation here, between rabies, parvo, mange, etc. I just don't have much to play with.

We don't have many muskrats in this area, cheap coon, cheap coyotes, very few beaver. Fox numbers are way down, the only "high dollar" fur we have are bobcats, and there is a limit on them.

It's happened lots of times, folks will lean over the side of the truck to look at critters and ask, "well, what's that worth?" Honestly, if you ain't stacking em up, you're probably losing money.

But, I love to trap. I'll take care of my landowners, if they have a problem. Talking about gophers, I could probably make more trapping junk here in town.

But, I'll be out.

[blackhammer]

May 3, 2015 3:30:50 GMT -6 prioritytimberland said:

Okay Mr. Gappa let's turn this question around. What are the lowest prices that you (or anyone else) willing to work for? If coon were $8, mink $10, rats $3, beaver $12 and coyote $15 would you hang up the traps?

Other than coyotes those our pretty close to today's prices and coyotes could easily head there.

[Deleted]

Absolutely I'll be trapping! Regardless of $$, trapping coyote is an extremely healthy pursuit for me, so as long as I can sell the pelts or paid bounty if the pelts become worthless, trapping is priceless to me! That being said, I probably won't trap rats this year. For the past half dozen years I've only been trapping rats on a large pit on private property where they wanted the rats gone. So during our firearm deer season I'd stop trapping coyote and trap the pit for rats. I think I'm going to use the rat $$ as an excuse to give the pit up.  I haven't enjoyed or be mentally stimulated trapping rats for many years but I was doing it to help a friend so I'll just spend the down time finishing canines.

[trappnman]

hard to figure out exactly how much per coyote- expenses vary on every coyote, plus you have the incidentals (fox, coon, badger)to figure in. But I do, every year, figure out exactly how much is spent to produce the income I get.

6 weeks of coyotes, is minor expenses to a vehicle used 52 weeks a year in a business insofar as tire cost, insurance (full coverage on my truck is $35 a month)so my main costs are bait/urine and lure- roughly I spent a little over $700 on that, another $100 on peat, and about $600 in gas- so my real expenses for those 6 weeks was about $1400- add in 6 weeks of total truck repair expenses and you only add a few bucks. so my net, roughly on 6 weeks of "coyotes" was about $350 a week. add in a tax deduction of about $2200 for mileage, and I do make a nominal profit- which is why I'm trapping something 40 weeks a year-

as far as how low- as never said, except for coyotes, those were our past year prices.

[Deleted]

Spring Rendezvous fur sale results, 5/2/15 - Michigan Trapping and Varmint Hunting
Small sale with 3 buyers.

[blackhammer]

Sold some fur to Groeny Thursday. Had seven buck mink left I brought with and had 6 at 14 dollars and one at eight and sold a bunch a beaver for 11 green straight across. Much better than Nafa would do on these items this year.

[trappnman]

those prices in MI were terrible- is that usually a decent sale?

blackhammer- mink went up a little with groeny- or were you getting those prices all along?

[Deleted]

Here's a post from one of the buyers.  As far as me knowing what's going on selling fur in MI, I haven't for many, many, years so I don't pay much attention.

Just back in and unloaded. Larger crowd than most anticipated. I heard tell 32 lots??? Prices reflecting the continued down. The fur in general was not Spring fur, however, a real mix of the season. A lot of smaller lots. Only had 3 buyers, and buying seemed evenly split. Was about as good a day as one could have expected. thanks to all who put the sale together. 

[jim]

The reporting buyer was Roger and he hardly ever buys coyote! I was real happy with the few coyotes I sent to NAFA. Jim

[coyotus]

Steve
I in no way want to question your coyote trapping ability,you catch coyotes like the rest of us.One coyote at a time.
In the very early 1980's I had a local red fox then coyote trapper take me under his wing.He showed me his locations,basic sets and attractants that worked for him.He called me one afternoon and asked me to come to his home that evening.I went not knowing what he really wanted(it wasn't a check day).
He had his wife make coffee and set a plate of her baked goodies on the table in front of us.He produced several spiral bound notebooks.He told me we were going to talk about the "economics of trapping".I had no idea what he meant at the time.I figured ,I set traps,caught fur animals,skinned,stretched,fleshed them and sold them.I figured after I had sold enough fur to pay for my traps any fur money after that it was all gravy.Please forgive me as I was young and not experience in commerce.
Anyway my "mentor" started to talk about what he figured it had cost him to produce/catch a red fox and then after the decline of red fox,coyotes.I'm sorry,it,initially, overwhelmed me.Basically what he was trying to teach me was basic economics of trapping.He had trap,trap stake,bait,lure,urine,and vehicle costs down and divided ,at first with his per red fox catch then after coyotes took over"cost per coyote".
This is a guy that averaged 331 red fox with 161 coyotes per fall( in 5 weeks of trapping)that was his average for the 4 years I had known him, until the coyotes took over.For the next 5 years he averaged 3 to 4 red fox and 181 coyotes per season.This while holding down a full time job!!! What I'm trying to say is he got it done as far as catching fur.
Long story short in the 1980's it cost him/me(as I was set up exactly the same as he was) $17.00 a coyote to produce.
Now not figuring in the 2015 cost of $29,000.00 to $60,00.00 dollar pickup trucks and coyote traps starting at $126.00 to $148.00 a dozen,the price per coyote has risen.
Steve,I've not been a top coyote producer.I caught,in leghold traps,an average of around 300 plus coyotes while trapping in N.E. Montana when I lived and trapped there.My best year with snares was kind of a freak year.It snowed and got real cold in the last week of October,first week of November,it hit -16 degrees F.Legholds were out of play.I hung snares as John Graham,Gary Jepson and Jimmy J. Halseth had taught me.I had set up some draw stations but most of the coyotes came from snaring up trails.I ended up with 413 snared coyotes in a 6 week period.John and Gary showed/taught me snare support systems that made the difference.Quick,easy and unnoticed by most of the coyotes and bobcats.I was surprised by looking in the snow the low numbers of refusals.Thanks John and Gary!!!
coyotus

[trappnman]

I have no doubt, that it did cost him $17 per coyote for him to produce.

but all math is not ther same, or rather, all expenses are not the same.

for example, I didn't pay $60,000 for my trapping truck. My last truck before thiso ne, I paid $1000 for, drove it 4 years, and put LESS than $500 in REPAIRS- so total cost of my truck was minute, per each coyote. My latest trapping truck, was the family truck that I bought 8 yearsd ago- so that too was fully depreciated. my mileage expenses don't even come in the same neighborhood as my actual costs- I MAKE money driving- literally.

time only becomes important to me, when I'm working for someone else insofar as putting a $$$ value on it. Otherwise- what is time but merely the days passing by as you live your life. When I worked at a job full time- I spent pretty much all my "free" time hunting and fishing and raising hounds- for those that think a trappers time needs to be figured in at a set $$$ amount, I say great if thats your desire- but after 40 hours a week- isn't my time "my own"?

I've got hundreds and hundreds of traps- most not even taken out of the bins anymore- traps long paid for, traps long depreicated.

PROFIT is what I care about. Actual expenses subtracted from actual income- thats the bottom line. Time is meaningless- time is just living my life as I see fit- I charge $250 a day for instructions, and turn down people every year- shuld I then state that a day on the line with me, is equivilant to $250-with some math, I should (since I'm deducting expenses the same way) at that in, as "Profit" or at least value?

[bblwi]

It is always interesting to read the economic threads regarding trapping and cost, expenses and profits.
Having been able to review the financial statements for hundreds of business owners over 4 decades one becomes familiar with how expenses are calculated etc. etc. The one thing I learned is that there are as many costs of production and or profits as there are business owners. Sure there are standards or averages or medians we can derive but there is a different cost for each business and for that matter a wide, wide fluctuation for products sold, but not as great as costs.
For most trappers the business is low overhead with high variable costs as a percentage of total costs. This makes trapping a business which allows participation only when one wants to as the unused assets don't weigh down one's business and most have other options other than fur for income. Time has little value unless there are rewarding alternatives either personal or business wise that cause time to have significant value. Most other commodity businesses typically have significant overhead investments that need to be paid for and many have debt, that means generating income to cover those costs even when prices are lower or disbanding the business and liquidating the assets.
Some trappers can have extremely low variable costs while others have much higher variable costs. Persons with high variable costs need to trap higher revenue species or specialize in professional services to pay off higher investments. Those with low variable costs either total or per species can hold their own with less valuable species or species in a down market.
For me this year I am leaving for DC to tour the capital and go to a football game from Nov 3rd through the 8th or 9th. This is typically my most productive trapping week, so with a soft market on rats, coons, early reds and our type of yote this is a low cost year to not trap as much. I do plan to scout some semi wilderness area and do some early rat out of the canoe. Much rather be catching $2.75 to $3.50 rats (put up) than $4 early WI coons in the grease any day. With extra driving and lower costs my early rats will be money losers or breakeven rats but that is a choice I make. If I send 10 days losing $200 trapping rats that is no more than a person golfing 18 holes 4-5 times around here. If I was looking at profit I would have never given up my consulting business that averaged about $35-$45 per hour b4 taxes, but I would not have had the exercise and or the outdoor experiences.

Bryce

[Deleted]

As always Bryce, a good reply!

[coyotus]

Steve
I have no doubt you didn't spend $60,000.00 on your trapping truck.I'm not even concerned what it really costs other to produce fur.
The whole intent of my post was an attempt to point out "others" be aware of what it might cost them to produce fur,coyotes,coon,muskrats,mink etc.
I'm a trapper and have trapped yearly since 1962.I don't care about yearly fur price fluctuation.I started out trapping muskrats,learned how to catch mink,ended up trapping in Montana and North Dakota during the red fox boom.Moved on to coyotes and bobcats.
Now I'm retired,I get a little over $55000.00 a year from my retirement.I don't care what the fur prices really are as I'm going to trap as long as I can still walk and draw breath.I have collected/accumulated 3 four wheel drive trucks.All are trapping trucks.
I've run 25 dozen coyote/cat traps in the ground on multi day checks.When I was younger.
Please I don't want to offend you or Lori.I open my house,traps and equipment to you next fall.Come out for a month or 6 weeks,your choice.Lucy,my wife, and I will put you up and I'll show you the lay out of at least 6 coyote(with a few red fox) lines.Heck I'm going to get after them anyway.coyotus