new season

[trappnman]

as in baseball, hope is always higher before the season starts.

Last year was the perfect storm insofar as low populations- ice covered ground through april, 13" of snow in early May, floods (multiple) in june, plus a very cold and icy winter combined with a high rate of coon distemper combined to give me my lowest mink, rat. coon, beaver numbers in 20+ years.

In addition, several of my streams last season were rip-rapped just before the water season started.

so for this year- a normal spring, no floods, vegetation on the rip-rap, coon numbers seem to be up. The only negative is farmer reports of hearing coyotes is down-

but there should be less "get rich quick" trappers out there this year, and that's always a bonus.

fur prices don't scare me, since coyotes are (were) the bright spot, and if the numbers of coon/rats etc are near normal, it should be a good year.

after all, even if I loose a penny a pelt, I can make it up in volume........


so I'll be starting on coyotes oct 13 (1 year from the day from when I quit smoking, still have not had one puff of a ciggie, still sucking on E cigs)

biggest thing this year, is I'm not going to expand any more- I did fill in a little, but the routes will be pretty much the same as last year.

one change- will be running wolf fangs this year on all new cables, and will gradually phase out the Berkshires- not so much that I dislike the berks, more that I do have to replace 10% or so each year, and with the wolf fangs that should approach zero.

also will be keeping all skunks- the few I pelted out last year averaged $10 locally, and since we got a good skunk (lots of white) might as well do them all. did them all a few years ago, but the bottom dropped out of skunks, so quit doing them until last year.

still draw the line on possums, and the good news is they really took a hit last 2 winters, so should have very few this year.

last year, I did this- every location had at least 1 set, that was untouched by coyotes. I did not see any value in that.....I seldom found where a fresh set, gave me more coyotes. multiple catches were always, or close enough to always, in the remake sets and the fresh set went untouched.

I've gotten more triples the last couple years than the previous 20 (but setting 2 traps curtails that) so will make an effort to have more than 2 at more locations.

and will spend more time fine tuning locations, then finding new ones altogether.

one thing I found out over last 2 years, is that waiting longer, is counter productive- that what I catch in the first few days, pretty much is going to be what I catch staying longer....

so will be hitting it hard, and I'll let fur prices be what they will- you can't sell if you got nothing to sell

whats the plan for the rest of you?

[RonMarsh]

Ya All have a plan. Most of the seasoned trappers here are doing much the same and expecting a little more elbow room.

[Deleted]

Last year was the perfect storm insofar as low populations- ice covered ground through april, 13" of snow in early May, floods (multiple) in june, plus a very cold and icy winter combined with a high rate of coon distemper combined to give me my lowest mink, rat. coon, beaver numbers in 20+ years.

Interestingly, last year was the first year in three previous and consecutive that I didn't have any occurrence of mange.  Not only had mange been common those three years but two years ago we had Parvo come through which with the mange, knocked the daylights out of my canine populations!!  Last year property owners who always heard coyote didn't but now this year, 1/2-2/3 of those are telling me of hearing coyote again. 

....I seldom found where a fresh set, gave me more coyotes. multiple catches were always, or close enough to always, in the remake sets and the fresh set went untouched.

....so will make an effort to have more than 2 at more locations.

I've came to the same conclusion a few years ago but excluding a new set just off the edge of the catch circle.  Some time ago I'd not only make the set off the catch circle but I'd put in another nearby.  No good, ignored!  I do think(not necessarily believe) that you can have sets too close together.  Many, many times I've had double sets about 10' apart and when one connects and there are other(s) coyotes raising hell with their buddy hung-up, seldom will that 2nd set work.  It appears the other(s) coyotes are so involved with Louie or Louise bouncing they have all attention on the one in the trap.  There appears to be a finite distance away from a caught coyote that will allow attention be given to a 2nd set.

This year I will be going back to using the "trench" or "deep, step-down" set with the "walk-thru"(Steve's rendition is my favored) and a flat-type set or a dirt hole set I came up with for fox back in the early 70's.

one thing I found out over last 2 years, is that waiting longer, is counter productive- that what I catch in the first few days, pretty much is going to be what I catch staying longer....

I've found just the opposite here so this year I'm changing from a 10-12 night set-up to a 18+ night set-up.   Part of this adding time is that once I start setting, I'm checking and am pretty focused on that but I have developed this nagging feeling that I may be missing a "shift" that is or could be occurring on the same properties.  Don't know for sure and I've got the time to slow down and find out if I'm right or I'm off a little in set locations.

I'm think our difference is the population density but that's only a guess since I've never been on your properties.

[irnhdmike]

Congrats on the not smoking. Good for you

[trappnman]

interesting comments never-

regarding closeness of sets-

when I was setting up travel lanes more often than not, I too found that I did better with doubles, if the sets were a fair distance away. often I'd be 50, 100 feet or even more from each other- if I set close, I never seemed to have a double. But setting up more now close to the destination, often literally behind the barn in the back yard, I'm very limited in places to set, so have been forced to set multiple traps tight, often just far enough so that they can't tangle (aka eastern fox trapping) and my doubles have very much increased.

as far as the length of stay, I feel that's because at the destination spots, have the coyotes coming in daily or close to daily, and what I don't catch, sees to many coyotes in sets....and that if I wanted to stay longer, I'd need to change locations. I've experimented in staying later at convenient set ups where I felt more were there...and while the tracks showed that was true, the sets were avoided and I don't think so much set shy, as location shy

[trappincoyotes39]

Going to do the same have some fun my son and catch more coons than I care to Trap some coyotes on various places and a few bobcats and have fun! Won't worry about fur prices or gas and as long as he has fun and I can teach him some more and see his excitement good enough for me for now.

One thing with staying in given areas long, coyotes will become hesitant as the more daily pressure in any area than they are used too, will lead to more neophobic reactions of sets over time.

Again lots of factors here, many who have limited ground to trap will stay longer and just keep watching catch ratios drop, the coyotes in good areas will still filter in just avoid some spots for periods of time, as fall changes to winter so do the coyotes when looking at other pressures like deer season and other hunting in an area. They will filter on by areas of pressure.

I once watched a group of 5 coyotes come into a large picked wheat filed with a good drainage , the issue being the deer hunters where working that drainage trying to jump up deer , I watched those coyotes split up 3 one way and 2 another and dodge and weave in between those deer hunters took them a good 20 mins to cover a mile and all of them went undetected from the group of deer hunters but used secondary travel routes as the deer hunters where in the area they would have liked to use, they crossed the gravel road hooked back up and all went down another drainage across the gravel road that drainage is where I had 2 bait stations and a nice grouping of snares

I found that to be a good learning tool and watched them go from the more pressured area into the property with less pressure and better cover for that time. This was middle November and a few inches of snow on the ground, it was a public area that was 1 mile N/S. And 2 miles east to west in size, there denning location was just north of the public area on a cattlemen's ranch. Who rarely ever called about coyotes only beaver.

[Deleted]

Aug 26, 2014 8:18:31 GMT -6 trappnman said:

interesting comments never-



as far as the length of stay, I feel that's because at the destination spots, have the coyotes coming in daily or close to daily, and what I don't catch, sees to many coyotes in sets....and that if I wanted to stay longer, I'd need to change locations. I've experimented in staying later at convenient set ups where I felt more were there...and while the tracks showed that was true, the sets were avoided and I don't think so much set shy, as location shy

Yes, I can understand the principle you've described which is very different from mine, since there is no specific "destination spot" such as a bait pile or carcass dump.  I don't feel that my "stall-out spots"(what I look for) are in-principle that type of destination, mainly because my animals are far from daily visitors to the locations.

On a 500 acre parcel a few years ago where sand excavation was occurring daily I did ascertain that I had three different families/groups of coyotes coming into and leaving that 500 acres with a 1/2 mile x 1/4 mile excavation in the center.  Due to the dressed sand truck road around the perimeter and later with snow cover NONE of those groups ever interacted or visited a common spot!!  Now a mile away, there was a stall-out location which I've shown photos several times on this board I DID have several different families/groups visiting the exact same location/spot(bulldozer photo).  


The only difference I could ascertain was the first property was strictly a "hunting" venture and the other, with a common location, was on a "travelway".  That particular year I caught 8 in 10 nights on the 500 acre property and 7 on the common stall-out.  15 catches in 12 nights within one mile but each location was completely different.  I had to set three stall-outs on the 500 acre property and only had to set one on the inverted corner of the diary farm(bulldozer photo).

By the way, the catch rate through the 10 day setting started after the initial 24 hr setting(1st night) and concluded on the 7th night at which time after the 10th night and no sign I pulled feeling I needed to be elsewhere.  I feel now that my practice of moving that quickly today and back then, may have been a mistake.  That year and others before and since have me wondering enough to go with an extended setting this year.

[trappnman]

The only difference I could ascertain was the first property was strictly a "hunting" venture and the other, with a common location, was on a "travelway". That particular year I caught 8 in 10 nights on the 500 acre property and 7 on the common stall-out. 15 catches in 12 nights within one mile but each location was completely different. I had to set three stall-outs on the 500 acre property and only had to set one on the inverted corner of the diary farm(bulldozer photo).


let me ask you a question I've been asked- what do you think you would have caught at that common spot, if you had double the traps out, and none on the travelway?

just talking this over with Lori a few minutes ago- one thing we are trying to fine tune, is managing the line. Again this year with thanksgivng so late, we have 6 weeks for coyotes. We have 5 distinct lines, with a minimum of overlapping. Last 3 years, 2 of those lines caught 60-70% of the coyotes. last year, we spread out the extra days on each line, but this year, on those 2 productive lines (and one reason they are so productive IMO is that they are singular big attractions- beacons in the desert so to speak) will get the extra days. even if the catch falls off, % will be the equal or better than days spent on lines with fewer concentrations and ultimately fewer coyotes on the boards

the thing about those gol darn coyotes, is that the longer I'm at it, the more I learn and them ore I wish I knew. everything else is just production trapping- no surprises no thinking. Easy money......

but coyotes..... people can wish for world peace...I just wish for a bunch of big silky YOY litters on my locations....and I'll be good.....

[Deleted]

Aug 26, 2014 20:55:49 GMT -6 trappnman said:

The only difference I could ascertain was the first property was strictly a "hunting" venture and the other, with a common location, was on a "travelway". That particular year I caught 8 in 10 nights on the 500 acre property and 7 on the common stall-out. 15 catches in 12 nights within one mile but each location was completely different. I had to set three stall-outs on the 500 acre property and only had to set one on the inverted corner of the diary farm(bulldozer photo).


let me ask you a question I've been asked- what do you think you would have caught at that common spot, if you had double the traps out, and none on the travelway?

Good question because I've asked myself the same one!

Without doing a big, marked-up photo thing I believed then as I still believe that within that mile was a serious territory lap because of the repeated direction of comings and goings by the coyote groups(3-somes, doubles & singles).  As I've stated before I do extensive scouting before and after trapping, literally throughout the year on all of my properties so I recognize patterns and shifts of patterns of the animals using the properties given about most seasons.

On the 500 acres with the huge sand pit I knew why the coyotes were there, the direction of comings & goings, and the stall-out of each group while there.  As sign showed and from actually visual sightings by the excavator operator, the coyote came to the pit to hunt waterfowl and deer on the ice(operator witnessed several deer killing on the ice).  He also noted to me when I first started trapping the property that he'd watch coyote come to the edge of the pit off and on through the winter days, check the pit and leave.  Very near these "lookouts" is where I found the 3 stall-outs.  Only one group of coyotes could I ascertain would/could frequent the inverted field corner a mile east.  

At the "common"spot at the inverted corner I could see two groups moving through and dickin around or using the inverted corner and of those two one could have been one of the groups from the 500 acre location.

Back to the question asked- I feel I had the correct number of traps at each location.  As an example, I caught a triple the first night on the 500 acre location and two doubles at the "common" spot of the inverted corner a mile away through the nights I was set there.  I truly believe that in hindsight(one reason why I'm changing my length of stay this year) I should have not pulled after 10 nights, more so on the  inverted corner.  This belief comes from observations from being on those properties off and on immediately AFTER I was done trapping.  I do this scouting purposely for two reasons, one is to keep tabs on if coyote backfill has occurred or not for deep snow trapping AND to see if there is a backfill, what the pattern of travel is.

I do this type of scouting for several reasons.  I'm retired so I have the time.  Secondly, because I desire to know everything I can about the who/what/where of the majority of the coyote in the territory I trap.  Thirdly, and just as important to my success is I'm sorting the chaff from the wheat from all the other folk's experiences and observations in their area that is in books, videos, and on trapping boards compared to mine.  Some info is fact or a reasonable facsimilty of, some is just plan BS or conjecture as it relates to my area!!!

[bblwi]

My new season will be just that different. With rats maybe rebounding in numbers (last year saw drastic drop) maybe the line will yield a few more. I am concerned about my river line where the two streams were over their banks and by a lot for two weeks in late May and early June.
There are a lot of coon on the highways so they survived and bred OK. Our area due to a very late planted corn crop will have almost every acre go to silage this year as the yields are projected to be about 2/3rds normal, maybe less. That means there will not be hardly any corn standing even at about mid October. Some corn will need to freeze to dry enough for silage. Our typical killing frost dates here are about October 12-16th.
Coon patterns will be changing a lot.
I am also going to New York for 5 days from Oct 29-Nov 2nd. That is during the first week of water trapping so no north line this year and if I decide to hold off on coon all trapping except Oct 25-28 will be from November 4th on.
I may scout some coon lines and set up a couple dozen locations on trails or locations I feel there will not be families of coon but adult barren females or males. I did this about 9 years ago and it works. We will see.

Bryce