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Post by seldom on Jan 28, 2013 14:08:11 GMT -6
There was a lot of hoopla over this thread but I thought I'd revisit the thread on the day I pulled my coyote traps for the season. I didn't get anywhere near the snow depth I love to work in but nevertheless, I worked with what was to be had and continued to be successful. I brought the the thread back because of my fact-finding of using a trap with a wider jaw spread than the #3 Bridgers and #4 Dukes I normally use in snow. I wasn't necessarily looking for more jaw height as I was for more jaw "length" so I settled on the MB-750 to which I added 1/4" sq stock laminations A-typical of the traps I normally use. A full 2/3 of my sets were on ice. By that I mean the trap was in direct contact with the ice except for a dimple I made for the D-ring. We all know what the past week's temps were yet all traps were and remained functional and multiple coyotes and bobcats were caught throughout that time period. Today I remembered to take my camera with me while I pulled and was rewarded with the opportunity to document a catch that was typical of the rest with this trap under snow depths ranging from >1 to 4" with an ice crust.    This photo depicts a set (the drag is positioned just to mark the trap for the camera). You'll notice a disturbance in the snow which is about 12' before the trap in a "crow's foot" trail setup of three connecting trails. This was caused by a coyote traveling parallel with the one I caught. The scene in the snow told me that when the coyote sprung the trap it scared the snot out of it's traveling companion(about 10' away) who did such an abrupt turn-around that it actually did a spin-out on the ice. I didn't double up mainly due to the franticness of the uncaught coyote following the one on the drag away from the "crow's foot" trail setup. Hopefully you can see the spin-out.  My verdict after using these traps, even with less snow depth than I normally want to work in, is that the trap met and exceeded ALL expectations when used within the confines of this specific type and style of trapping. To reiterate, let me be perfectly clear when I say that this trap will not replace the traps I normally use for the vast majority of my pre-snow trapping but I now look forward in verified confidence and great anticipation for some deep now next season.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 28, 2013 16:51:26 GMT -6
did you have any of these on staked sets? Or all drags and catches?
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Post by seldom on Jan 28, 2013 17:02:27 GMT -6
did you have any of these on staked sets? Or all drags and catches? Only drags with this system. |
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Post by trappnman on Jan 29, 2013 8:39:16 GMT -6
you place the traps on ice- then what did you do insofar as covering trap? It then rained to get the ice crust, or just melted snow refreezing?
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Post by seldom on Jan 29, 2013 9:06:59 GMT -6
you place the traps on ice- then what did you do insofar as covering trap? It then rained to get the ice crust, or just melted snow refreezing? No, this weather change brought rain first, than it froze, and now lots of rain and high temps. Time to quit and get things ready for the knee replacement so time AND my knee have run out waiting for deep snow this year. |
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Post by Aaron.F on Jan 29, 2013 20:09:30 GMT -6
I could not see the video. What kind of drags are you using on the ice?
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Post by seldom on Jan 29, 2013 20:44:58 GMT -6
I could not see the video. What kind of drags are you using on the ice? It's interesting! First I can see all of my photos as posted but as time goes on I see fewer and fewer??? Never had this happen before! The photos are/were there just to show the lack of damage as pertaining to a previous thread/discussion. My drags are just homemade ones. |
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Post by Possum on Jan 30, 2013 11:05:01 GMT -6
The Indiana DNR instituted new regs a few years ago that would make using a 750 illegal. I forget the max jaw spread allowed, but #3 Bridgers and #4 Sleepy Creeks just make the cut. The only thing I question with the big dudes is catching them hi up on the leg. Changes a trap from a foot hold to a leg hold. My concern is breaking the leg bone then getting "wring-offs." Much less likely with a good "foot grip".
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Post by seldom on Jan 30, 2013 11:46:08 GMT -6
The Indiana DNR instituted new regs a few years ago that would make using a 750 illegal. I forget the max jaw spread allowed, but #3 Bridgers and #4 Sleepy Creeks just make the cut. The only thing I question with the big dudes is catching them hi up on the leg. Changes a trap from a foot hold to a leg hold. My concern is breaking the leg bone then getting "wring-offs." Much less likely with a good "foot grip". These traps are replacements for the #3 Bridgers and #4 Dukes I've been using in this very specific application and of which are in my determination of having used them in like manner for the past 6 years are less suited. Less efficient. The original thread was interesting but it appeared to me while following along during the discussion that folks as a rule, take much of "who said it to the greatest magnitude", methods, and practices for granted as being an all encompassing standard! During that discussion I tried several times to draw the speakers out of "the box" but if my memory serves me only Zagman mentioned "unique or very specific application(not exact quote). One commonly touted example and one that is heard constantly as "THE CURE" "THE ONLY WAY" for deep snow is to "hang snares!" "hang snares!!" Bullchit! Pure unadulterated bullchit in MY Michigan where I trap!! But no, people as a rule seem to think their world of trapping and Regs are identical to mine.(not to be construed to pertain to Possum) Maybe some would like to have their State adopt MI cable restraint Regs! Folks could then rejoice and relate to the efficency of using a 41/4" deer stop! A deer stop that has been proven by the MI DNR to only hold 60% of the coyote in a 24hr check and 0% of the fox! Ya right!!!! |
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Post by bobbrennan on Jan 30, 2013 15:58:34 GMT -6
the trap strikeing the leg is not going to break it getting hung up in something rigid in an awkward position is how bad things happen! for a coyote to be struck on the foot only by trap jaws you might have to go to traps about the size of 1 1/2s that just tells me someone, possibly your dnr doesnt know squat!
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Post by motrapperjohn on Jan 31, 2013 20:09:54 GMT -6
There is very good reasons why some states have jaw spread limitations. damage to the animals feet. Even the #3 bridger cam be to big for the inexperince trapper in certian situations. And anone that has to use the 85 in any land set for anything but wolfs in remote areas dont need to be trapping IMO. Take a dead coyote and stick his foot in it and you will see why. Its that kind of stuff that peta loves to see. I have seen picts with #5 cdrs and the 85 has got a lot more metal moving just as fast as the #5. Even on the #3s with rubber on the jaws I will not set 4coil if there is a chance a dog will get caught. And the one that got cuaght was mine. My brother caught a guys german shepard in a #4 jump with the guy with the dog and it cost my parents $250 and this was back in 78 because that trap broke 3 bones in its foot. We dont need no more bad publicity.
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Post by seldom on Jan 31, 2013 20:51:14 GMT -6
There is very good reasons why some states have jaw spread limitations. damage to the animals feet. Even the #3 bridger cam be to big for the inexperince trapper in certian situations. And anone that has to use the 85 in any land set for anything but wolfs in remote areas dont need to be trapping IMO. Take a dead coyote and stick his foot in it and you will see why. Its that kind of stuff that peta loves to see. I have seen picts with #5 cdrs and the 85 has got a lot more metal moving just as fast as the #5. Even on the #3s with rubber on the jaws I will not set 4coil if there is a chance a dog will get caught. And the one that got cuaght was mine. My brother caught a guys german shepard in a #4 jump with the guy with the dog and it cost my parents $250 and this was back in 78 because that trap broke 3 bones in its foot. We dont need no more bad publicity. In the above photos is not a TS-85, that was the subject of the original thread. If you are insinuating that because I'm using a MB-750 in very specific circumstances/application that I don't know how to trap coyote I'll say point blank you can stick that up your F-N ass! I realze this is a forum and only the written word but pardner let me be very, very, clear, if that's what you're saying, I'd tell you the same frigin thing to your face!!! Period! |
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Post by aaroncurtis on Jan 31, 2013 21:44:34 GMT -6
There is very good reasons why some states have jaw spread limitations. damage to the animals feet. Even the #3 bridger cam be to big for the inexperince trapper in certian situations. And anone that has to use the 85 in any land set for anything but wolfs in remote areas dont need to be trapping IMO. Take a dead coyote and stick his foot in it and you will see why. Its that kind of stuff that peta loves to see. I have seen picts with #5 cdrs and the 85 has got a lot more metal moving just as fast as the #5. Even on the #3s with rubber on the jaws I will not set 4coil if there is a chance a dog will get caught. And the one that got cuaght was mine. My brother caught a guys german shepard in a #4 jump with the guy with the dog and it cost my parents $250 and this was back in 78 because that trap broke 3 bones in its foot. We dont need no more bad publicity. Mike doesn't need myself or anyone elses help defending the use of that trap in the manner in which its being used. And since I know him better than 98% of the members on here I can say without a doubt that there are very very few coyote guys out there who spend the time that Mike does. This wasn't some half cocked idea that came to him in a dream or after a long night of Wild Turkey. And since you did not mention any first hand experience I will assume you have none using it in the manner he described and what you do know about it was second hand info in a very different setting/application. Lance Armstrong screamed the loudest and the longest and we all know how much bullschitt that he fed everyone. And we all know he was completely innocent................because he said so! |
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Post by trappnman on Feb 1, 2013 10:19:22 GMT -6
I agree- mike stated several times in both this thread, and I believe the other thread- that this is not an everyday trap, or a go to trap- but a trap size meant for a very specific reason- no different than those advocating $3 & #4s for coon drowning sets.
its been a discussion on the forum and pms lately, on how the baisc rule is laid out- if you don't know, then you don't know & don't say you do.
if you haven't used the trap in this application, or used screens, or used moveable drags on coon- how can you say its wrong, or doesn't work?
jaw restrictions, conibear restrictions present and past- came about because the ones doing the setting, weren't using their brain-
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Post by motrapperjohn on Feb 1, 2013 17:00:18 GMT -6
And if someone would get their F-in head out of their b hole and look at what I posted and what was said. There is a place and a situations to use stuff like that , and most dont know that. Andf as the post said TS85 and that was what I was referring to. To many inexperienced people will take it as a good coyote trap and use it in everyday sets. Just as the video put out promoting #5 for catching fox bobcat, and coyote in texas. And several traps per set. Totally iresponsible in my book, just like the belisle 330 for foot traps. Any time you have more cover or freezing cover you can go to a stronger larger jaw spread trap but most want to use it in a situations and that is where the problems start> if I had read your entire first post I would have probly stated thing slightly different. But I did mention REmote areas. Most 95% of the trappers have to deal with domestic animals and we have to be very careful what we use and where we use it. Matbe it would be a good Idea to change the title of the post so some one else dont look at it and say WTF
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Post by seldom on Feb 1, 2013 18:21:49 GMT -6
And if someone would get their F-in head out of their b hole and look at what I posted and what was said. There is a place and a situations to use stuff like that , and most dont know that. Andf as the post said TS85 and that was what I was referring to. To many inexperienced people will take it as a good coyote trap and use it in everyday sets. Just as the video put out promoting #5 for catching fox bobcat, and coyote in texas. And several traps per set. Totally iresponsible in my book, just like the belisle 330 for foot traps. Any time you have more cover or freezing cover you can go to a stronger larger jaw spread trap but most want to use it in a situations and that is where the problems start> if I had read your entire first post I would have probly stated thing slightly different. But I did mention REmote areas. Most 95% of the trappers have to deal with domestic animals and we have to be very careful what we use and where we use it. Matbe it would be a good Idea to change the title of the post so some one else dont look at it and say WTF Go back and read the entire original thread. That's why it was entitled "REVISITED"!!!!! The originator of the thread ask a question pretaining to use of the TS-85 on coyote, hence the thread's title. BUT the discussion quickly gravitated toward "big" traps and continued along the lines of "big" with little discussion, comparatively speaking, specifically involving the TS-85!!!! |
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Post by trappnman on Feb 2, 2013 7:30:38 GMT -6
There is a place and a situations to use stuff like that
yes, it seems there is- thus the scope of this thread, in relation to the previous thread
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