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Post by Nick C on May 31, 2012 18:49:46 GMT -6
I know there is a lot of discussions of trap modifications, trap covers, equipment, sets, guiding, lure usage, methodology and strategy.
All of the items listed above are obviously important, but is the location set the trump card?
The factor I'm working on the most is locations this season, as I've struggled in the past, of scratching my head at empty sets. Seems like my most obvious weakness at the present.
I agree that T-Man's revelations on catch percentage are directly correlated with the spot you're setting your traps.
So on your guy's lines, what absolutely has to be present or what is the constant to the locations your setting?
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Post by Nick C on May 31, 2012 19:28:55 GMT -6
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Post by seldom on May 31, 2012 19:30:15 GMT -6
Took the words right out of my mouth!  . Or tongue in cheek. ;D Nick, I think it was Steve who commented some years ago about how to train a beagle on rabbits was to feed the dog a hell of a lot of rabbit tracks. Well, I have to say for me, I had to eat a hell of a lot of coyote tracks and I'm still today, using a lot of salt & pepper on'em!! |
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on May 31, 2012 21:30:27 GMT -6
you can have a location that will catch "A" coyote or two- or a location that will catch multiple coyotes in a short period of time. A set of tracks is well just that, multiple sets and varying size trips my trigger more.
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Post by Aaron.F on Jun 1, 2012 6:16:42 GMT -6
I am in agreement with you Nick as I am fairly new to the coyote game and location is difficult for me. I set lots of traps (a relative term) on sign and catch nothing at them except possums. The coyotes walk right by some sets and work others. My understanding is that is part of a coyote being a coyote, but based on the information on this site, there is something more to it. I am trying to figure out why one spot is more productive than the other and how to determine that and how to set where I can catch coyotes and not as many possums.
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Post by freepop on Jun 1, 2012 15:23:53 GMT -6
I believe location is a trump card. If a coyote isn't comfortable or willing to spend time at a location, the ability to catch him is slim. How to know the comfortable locations form the uncomfortable ones? You got me! I just poke a couple traps in and hope. The coyotes tell me if I was right or not. If not, pull traps and move on.
I try and think of the big picture, as in miles. Why and how the animal is getting from this hunting area to the next. I liken it to a wagon wheel, where the hunting area is the hub and the spokes are the travel routes. Intersecting routes should always be investigated, obviously. I also note sign when turkey, deer, rabbit hunting or just walking the dogs.
My scouting and contemplating never ends.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 2, 2012 10:04:44 GMT -6
I see coyote tracks constantly ever day I'm out during the spring and summer,. Get gophers eaten regular a well. and I used to set all those spots, thinking if they were there in aug, they will be there in oct, and some are. but many are not.
tracks not only tell you coyotes were there, but they also (along with other sign) tell you how long they were there, and what they were doing.
On an 1-10 I'd give myself a 6 or maybe a 7 on a good day, in reading all the sign thats there.
What this all comes down to, is not locations where coyotes are, but as discussed places where coyotes are in a stall out mode.
and that leads us back to understanding coyote behavior.
And I'm getting much better on that, thanks to others that led me in that direction- starting with WileyE until today.
the more you understand coyotes, the more understanding of where and why they go or do something.
freepop- do you think hunting areas, would be the best place to catch them based on the criteria you mentioned?
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Post by thebeav2 on Jun 2, 2012 20:13:58 GMT -6
That's why you see tracks In your gopher areas. But In the winter when the gophers are sleeping the coyotes aren't working those areas.
It's all about the food source and how the coyotes relate to It.
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Post by freepop on Jun 3, 2012 13:04:23 GMT -6
freepop- do you think hunting areas, would be the best place to catch them based on the criteria you mentioned? Quite possibly but I belive most to be thick areas that deer, rabbits, etc. feel comfortable to bed. I haven't found a good way to trap those situations yet. I think a coyote in the winter is always hunting though. An easy meal even if it's not sarving, if it's stumbled upon. I notice some of my best locations are down wind of hunting areas and we know ol' wiley is always using that nose. |
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Post by trappnman on Jun 4, 2012 6:17:17 GMT -6
I was thinking more of what coyotes are "thinking" when actively hunting (beyond being opportunistic).
there was a study on trout I once read. And that was on how trout react to food. Trout close to the edge of the stream would take grasshoppers whenever they were offered- yet trout in the middle of the stream, ignored them.
its a long way from there to coyotes....but......think about what it means.
one other observation on eating during winter- I often find dead dear at creeks in winter. left over from gun season. Many times, I see tracks close to the carcass for a long period, but the carcass is untouched- then one day- its like every coyote in the country decided to have venison that night.
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Post by seldom on Jun 4, 2012 6:44:45 GMT -6
To address the dead deer observation.
I've heard a lot of bowhunters tell me about loosing they're wounded deer overnight and thinking coyotes are circling them after tracking and finding the deer. I personally have observed deer killed the night before already being eaten on by coyote.
I have also observed on more than a few times "older dead" deer such as a road kill or multiple buckets of deer scraps left untouched for up to 3 weeks in fall and winter and coyote in and using the area on a normal basis.
I believe there are two distinct reasons for the two different reactions. The first reason for the literally immediate eating of a wounded, yet dead deer is just the fresh blood/"fresh" smell of the deer.
Coyote reaction---Hot damn, still warm!
The reason in my opinion and from observation why it can take so long for coyote to work a "non-fresh" deer has to do with the Study that explains coyote's reactions toward large stimuli and small within a coyotes home territory!!
Coyote reaction---Whoa, what the hell is this doing here??
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Post by seldom on Jun 4, 2012 6:59:20 GMT -6
I was thinking more of what coyotes are "thinking" when actively hunting (beyond being opportunistic). That's exactly why in my opinion coyote's are so easy to snare or in my case, use footholds in deep snow. Coyote's I've found can quite easily be patterned within the actual hunting area such as a rabbit swamp or swale because they have a "system" that they repeat every time in. They also follow a pattern traveling between hunting areas which in late winter is just as obvious. Makes no difference between fall and winter just the location of prey changes, so the coyotes change areas but not they're pattern or system. This is only my opinion based on my observations and experiences where I trap and not intended to represent where others trap. |
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Post by Wright Brothers on Jun 4, 2012 7:01:08 GMT -6
"To address the dead deer observation."
I too have seen this multiple times and question "why". And spoke of this before on here.
Let Mother Nature break it down so teeth and digestive system don't have to? Gourmet style.
Johny started in on it so we better get our share? Greed.
Not in the mood yet?
It's new and spooky? I doubt that.
And the freshy, like a coon in a trap. They don't eat it, but can't help themselves but get on it.
Then hide the remains under something heavy and watch what happens. Nothing hesitate or spooky there.
Dang dogs.
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Post by freepop on Jun 4, 2012 16:58:33 GMT -6
( I was thinking more of what coyotes are "thinking" when actively hunting (beyond being opportunistic). That's exactly why in my opinion coyote's are so easy to snare or in my case, use footholds in deep snow. Coyote's I've found can quite easily be patterned within the actual hunting area such as a rabbit swamp or swale because they have a "system" that they repeat every time in. They also follow a pattern traveling between hunting areas which in late winter is just as obvious. Makes no difference between fall and winter just the location of prey changes, so the coyotes change areas but not they're pattern or system. This is only my opinion based on my observations and experiences where I trap and not intended to represent where others trap. Many times I see where a pair of coyotes will work an area just like the beagles and I do. One coyote will be in the brush, working like the beagles to jump something and another coyote will be out in the open along the edge, like I do. Just like the beagles know the best holding cover (on areas we hunt frequently) the coyotes do also, traveling the same routes time after time. If only we had the ability to use snares vs. cable restraints and all the baloney we have to jump through  |
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Post by freepop on Jun 4, 2012 17:01:31 GMT -6
Hey Nick, on ditch crossing, I've had better luck 5-20 yards away from them than right on or next to it. If I put a set on or next to it, possums, coon, skunks all jump right in. If you have that happen, move away a little and see if that helps get coyotes and reduce non-targets.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 4, 2012 17:54:36 GMT -6
dead bow killed deer are free of human scent and in some areas this means less than others for sure!
A good friend had a feeding station out his house to read and observe coyotes and in areas where human scent is a real negative it would take some time for the roadkills to cool down before those coyotes would hit them, but once they did they stayed on them until cleaned up.
Geographic areas and pressure applied by humans does make a differance in how fast they work a bait station for sure.
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cmr2
Demoman...
Posts: 115
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Post by cmr2 on Jun 4, 2012 18:33:14 GMT -6
Do /Does anyone think that where that bow shot deer go's is to the comfort zone for it and coyotes ,giving the edge back to the coyote to be hidden ,where the deer that dies in that open area will take longer for the weary coyote to go in
Have had great success at the water crossings ,lane thru field cross's ditch/creek sets on both sides ,and have had better luck with one the open sides ,can be both on the same side or one on each side (water)
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Post by seldom on Jun 4, 2012 21:51:17 GMT -6
dead bow killed deer are free of human scent and in some areas this means less than others for sure! A good friend had a feeding station out his house to read and observe coyotes and in areas where human scent is a real negative it would take some time for the roadkills to cool down before those coyotes would hit them, but once they did they stayed on them until cleaned up. Geographic areas and pressure applied by humans does make a differance in how fast they work a bait station for sure. I agree with what you said TC except for the cooling down of human scent. I have three property owners who if they have a dead hog or a 2-3 day road kill deer laying in their ditch, throw a chain around it and drag them to the back 40 or where I tell them to take it. Very minimum human contact on those animals whatsoever yet none of them will be touched for at least three weeks!!!! The third person dumps 3-4 deer trimmings all at once(legs, head, rib cages, etc) in convenient wooded cover and within 75 yards from where I set in the fall. This pile of trimmings will remain untouched for the same three weeks as do the hogs and road kills than like filling on a light switch, the coyote lick it up. If human scent were the deciding factor in the three cases and two(hogs and roadkill deer) with less human handling than when we/I set a trap, how can we catch coyote the same night we made the set? The coyotes know we've been there, they smell our presence from setting traps so how is it possible they would have to wait for my examples to cool off? Nope, don't buy it. One of those guys dragged a 3-day road kill deer as I've described down the road a couple 100 yds and dropped it next to a lone 10' high pile of dirt in his back 40 where I knew there were coyote hunting and a stall out. All he did was just wrap the chain around it's neck and unhook the chain. That was two weeks before I setup his place. No coyote had touched the deer or had come within 50yds of it. In 15 days I caught 9 coyote within sight of the deer yet for a total of 4 weeks no coyote came closer than 30' of the deer! Hell, I left more human scent setting traps, killing and skinning coyote than the fella that dragged the deer carcass to the location! |
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jun 5, 2012 3:38:04 GMT -6
alot of factors I pointed out one, no set rules I have seen some coyotes eating road kill deer in a hwy ditch at 7:30 in the morning. Temps where below zero or single digits at best.
When I would snare in the winter days it was in single digits or less I always had a good haul. Ma nature can change their nature as well.
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Post by seldom on Jun 5, 2012 6:32:12 GMT -6
Again I agree TC that there are a lot of factors involved BUT there is a reason WHY and there appears to be a common denominator when these observations are so widespread.
I watched a lengthy video of highly neophobic reactions of coyote by the placing of just a large chunk of firewood in an open area(gas line ROW) that the coyote's frequented daily and during daylight hours. The coyotes were getting a free lunch of chicken parts because of a nearby chicken processing plant and to get there they had to cross the ROW. When chicken parts(had to be human scent contaminated) such as feathered wings were placed in the same ROW only minor neophobia was displayed before the parts were consumed.
Neither object, the large chunk of wood or the small chicken wings were normal for the coyotes to encounter or see in the ROW.
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