Baiting DPS

[blackhammer]

Popple,willow using the horicon method would seem like they would be the ticket where you can't use floats in the spring.A lot of willow to cut and haul around though.

[trappnman]

Bait and lure might well be the ticket for spring float rats.

but either or both, are just add ons that do nothing, IMHO of course, in fall and winter trapping. Growing up on the big marshes, the only ones that used lure, were us kids- none of the dads or uncles etc did. Their advice to us kids, was go ahead and use it- it won't hurt anything......and we soon found out, it didn't increase the catch- over the years I've used about every bait and lure for rats out there, and again, never saw where it helped me get more rats.

blackhammer- I agree in a way with you saying coon can't be drawn far- IF we are talking fall trapping. Much of that is because I truly believe that coon are very food specific orientated then, and are as I stated single minded- so if you are on location, they will work a set, but they aren;t going far off their lane routes and whatever food source they are on. but I also strongly feel, that changes once cold and snow hit. Once they hole up for that first extended time and they come out during warm spells, they are not food orientated, and to attract them, you need a curiosity scent, and the right scent, WILL draw them further than most think, and most likley even further than what I think.

[thorsmightyhammer]

but either or both, are just add ons that do nothing, IMHO of course, in fall and winter trapping

I'm not much of a lure or bait user, but a baited board should have a place in a rat trappers arsenal.

I have many ponds I used to just breeze by because there was basically no back to work with, no houses and I aint looking for feed beds or other obvious type spots unless they are right there.

[thebeav2]

Marsh trapping scenario.
It's In the fall were trapping a large cattail marsh. We PRE stake to save time and not to over load the boat when It comes time to set steel.
We come back on opening day and low and behold all of our pre staked willow stakes have been completely striped of all bark as high as a rat can reach. Would that be considered BAIT? Well the next year I did the same thing but used a stool system along with the green willow stakes. Guess what. I just wore out the rats with that system. What i found was now I didn't have to push the boat through the cat tails and I didn't have to get out of the boat to set some of those spots. Now I just cruised along the edges and set willow staked stools. Very efficient since I had the rats coming to me. Sure I still set the huts but I still use lure to put the rat where I want that rat to be.
When we trapped out west last fall It was with lured and baited stools and we caught 1200 rats. So It must work. And I can guarantee you that If one would have been running around looking for feed beds bank dens and huts to set you would have come up short on the rat catch.
Use every trick In the book It will make you money with larger catches.

[trappnman]

no, I don't consider willows as bait- the oldest stool set in the world, was a willow with a strip and a slit.

beav, I'm thinking that if you would have used all unlured stools, your catch would have been about.....1200.

I don't consider lure or baits like carrot, apple, potato, etc to be a "trick"- I consider it, in fall and winter, of no more value than what color hat you wear.

steven, I've used floats in fall on ponds and featureless areas where I knew there was rats, and never did much good on them at all, if done in the style as discussed here. and thats WITH baits and lures added. I did however do well, by placing the board on bank edge, and angling it into the water- add a bit of grass/mud to give the board a "used look" (don't know if it mattered or not, just did it as it was easy enough to do) and its a good set.

Keep in mind, i'm not saying that floats don't work, obviously they do...I don't need to use them in 99% of my locations, so don't.

What I am saying, is that IMO after many many decades of chasing rats, using lures baits etc in too many "experiments" my conclusion, based on what I saw, is that lures and baits, add nothing.

And why would it? Any rat trapper, knows that rats have small terirorries overall. And of course there are instances where rats travel, etc. but day in and day out, rats don't have a big home range. They pretty much eat where they live- they eat themselves out, they move.

so in effect its a mobile population, but its more of a shuffling around. In a run and gun scenario, if you are location as beav always says, then you are only going to CATCH those homebodies, and those homebodies only have a few options- set them and you catch them

Again, I know nothing about rat trapping after March 1st.

[thebeav2]

So you don't consider popple and willow a bait. If It's not growing In said marsh and you add It to the equation then In my opinion It becomes a bait. It's no different then when you take a chunk of BAIT from your BAIT jar and add It to your canine set. But of coarse you probably don't consider that as being BAIT either.

I will add this to the equation. If we didn't re bait we didn't have any repeat customers. In the fall It seemed less of a problem because we could keep our stools completely out of the water with the traps exposed.
And yes I will agree that stools and floats are not effective In some situations.

so going on to the SMALL home range theory.
We have a 100 acre marsh we have permission on 95 of those acres. Do the rats from the far north 5 acre bay ever travel to the south end of the marsh or do they just hang out in their own little world? This would be a fall scenario since we all know that SPRING rats are on the move as soon as Ice out.

It seems to me that In the fall I get a lot of rat movement on my river and small stream locations. Is this because I just failed to catch them at their small home range or Is It that rats have a major fall shuffle like canines do?
In my opinion the use of bait and lure and some visuals will make life a lot easier for the trapper by putting the rats where they are more attainable. Which of coarse puts more hides on the stretchers.
But since you see no value In the use of bait/lure or visuals you would be my first choice to share a public rat marsh with.

[trappnman]

don't put words into my mouth- visuals are another ball game- I think visuals are important in rat trapping and make use of them..

also, feel free to consider willow stakes bait-

[trappnman]

you aren't seeing RAT MOVEMENT running and gunning except here and there-

to see rat movement in any meaningful way, you have to stay longer-

you trap out the locals- 99% of the guys then move on, jumping the line as is common. but you will after a bit, get that flux of movement as rats shuffle to and fro

[thebeav2]

you aren't seeing RAT MOVEMENT running and gunning except here and there-

Now your telling me how I rat trap LOL

Last fall we spent 30 days on the same locations never moved a trap from day one till the time we pulled. Oh there was one large slough we trapped for 5 checks and then pulled since we had better places to re set those traps and fighting the wind on open water was getting a bit tiresome. That In my opinion Isn't running and gunning. Now If the catch rate went down I would have moved.

Same with this spring, placed traps on day one checked everyday for a month + and in most cases never moved a trap other then moving colony traps to new locations. We had out at least 300+ working sets at all times. We could have set more or even checked twice a day but how many rats to you want to skin everyday? Now If the catch would have dropped off we would have moved to new locations. But It never did. I have never seen anything like It.

The same with the marsh I've been trapping for 20 years. Set and when the catch drops off to nothing I pull. I have permission on the whole property so I'm hitting all spots.

When I trap the boat-able streams I set heavy and make two 24 hour checks then It's every other day then It's every 3rd day. When I'm not checking that first line I'm placing traps down stream or up stream between take out points along the road. So by doing this I'm going to new ground and taking those local rats before they can travel to trapped out locations. That may be considered running and gunning. Then if time and weather permits I will go back and set all the hot locations. Now I'm taking traveling rats and I'm setting heavy at key locations and I'm setting the next day and I won't check until all the locations are set. Then It's a one time check and I'm pulling as I go

If your staying In one place for the whole season and those locations are on small streams then In my opinion your checking a lot of empty traps or tying up traps that could have been moved to producing locations and that type of system Is very Inefficient In my opinion.

Numbers Is the name of the game no sense In waiting for them to come to you. Same with coyote trapping set heavy catch the cream and move on to new areas. Then when the cream Is has been taken go back and set your proven locations for a few more checks.

[trappnman]

are apples oranges?

[thebeav2]

The thread seemed to be about trapping not a fruit stand business. So now your using apples and oranges for bait ?
I have saved and used orange peels and grapefruit rinds for bait and they seemed to work OK but they wouldn't be my go to attractor.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Whats a "small" home range.

I've seen rats swim 3 4 5 hundred yards more times than I care to imagine.

I'm not talking current areas here but ponds.

The "stools" we are talking about are set underwater. They arent like a float where getting up on the platform is instrumental.

Its the bait they are going for.

I have ponds that have basically zero bank to work with. No houses and like I said, I'm not spending time looking for feed beds, runs or stools. If they aint there I'll set a board.

Sure, I'd rather have a stool, feed bed, house, bank set et al. But if they aint there they aint there.

[trappnman]

beav- I was commenting on your post

steven- then the stool is nothing but the old willow set, beta version.

Yes, the willow is a bait- but again, its lure and vegeitible baits I'm referring to.

Rat trappers have been using willows and a white cut with trap wedged underneath since the trap was invented i'd guess. Its as old school as there is.

[thebeav2]

And that's why a chunk of Poplar or willow attached to the stools stake Is a no brainier. And It is bait. The slice In the willow pole Is old school and It really didn't work very well, everything had to be just right and then there were still lots of empty traps hanging off those willow poles. The stool Is pretty fool proof as long as your trap Is tuned to go off at the slightest touch.

[trappincoyotes39]

Wow went from baiting DPS traps to muskrat talk LOL.

One day the rats will be 3.00 ea and then we will be onto something else.

[thebeav2]

Not true That would be the time to rack up the big numbers. The competition would most likely be gone. Tman would still be trapping his ten rats a week out of that back country creek. LOL
It would be the time to have NAFA put a hold on those rats until you decided the time was right to sell. They will do that for you at no charge. I'm not sure If FHA does that or not.

We got a bit off track but It's still about BAIT

[RdFx]

Shucks Beav you baited all those responses from those udder people! LOL....

[calvin]

LOL, Beav....but agreed. Less price means less competition and more opportunity. The way I see it anyhow.

[trappincoyotes39]

OK....? How many trappers where sitting on 10,000+ rats this time around on a rat boom? The problem with banking rats or anything could be many years before you see that kind of avg again. Nafa holding them for 7+ years if need be? Or will they dump them after time?

Then they will still be called fresh collections too I suppose? LOL.

Hind sight is always 20/20


Fur isn't like trading gold, it is a perishable good. Hard time for many to go out and catch 3,000 rats for 3 years in a row knowing at that point in time bringing 2.75 or 3.00 avg isn't it? Specially if the 3-5 year outlook doesn't look promising!

If or when the rat market takes a dive who will state they will buy all rats for a 5.00 avg across the board knowing some day the market will be back to 10.00? Any takers?

[thebeav2]

Well I see you have It all figured out 39 so I guess It's a no go for me.

But here's the way I see It.

I know I can catch 3000 rats In about a month. I know It will cost me around $2,500.00 In total expenses to do it.
So If I sold 2,000 rats at $3.00 I would make a profit of $3,500.00 So now I'm going to bank the other 1000 rats at NAFA. Seems like a no brainier to me. In fact I can't see how I could lose. And of coarse $3.00 average on rats Is a bit of a stretch. So I'm figuring my profit would be a bit higher.
I figure If I can clear $100.00 a day I'm doing pretty good so I think It's a go If the rat market takes a dive.