Let's talk DP coon traps.

[trappnman]

personally, % of catch rate, is THE most important thing. Why run and maintain 200 traps, if 100 gives you the same total at the end of the day?

the tip of the tongue answer is to then double your traps- but you are STILL then talking increasing %>

I'd think that any thinking trapper, would want the highest % in catch rate possible.

but I'm sure thats just me...................

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman all depends where those numbers are correct? You think that people are having 50% no commitment rate with DP's? If so you need to switch traps and attractants.

Say you get out 70 coon footholds in a day on the same locations as I get out 100 daggers on, I can have a 30% non commital rate and we are even. If my math is correct. I can tell you I don't have a 30% Non commital rate.

Add in weather say 1" of rain your going to have more time spent redoing those 70 footholds than I will with 100 DP's. In most locations. The fact remains the DP's are less labor intensive for COONS and quicker to get out and maintain start to finish.

[trappnman]

TC- you aren't getting what I'm saying.

Yes- dps are faster to put out.
Yes- some coon trappers are changing out to them 100%

but the dp isn't the ultimate coon trap, IMO over snares, BGs or footholds.

if you rated them, again IMO as to success rates as to per trap efficientcy, I'd rate them snares, footholds and then your choice of BGs or DPS.

and of course its not 50% or close to that- but say its 10%? or even more? But what i meant more aobut the trap numbers- is that with something so fast and easy- its a tendency for anyone, to set out traps in poorer locations, or more at a lcoation. like snares- when I snare coon, I set snares all over the place. If I get X number of coon, the empty snares don't matter. Say I set 10 snares, and take 4 coon- if setting footholds, I could have done that in half the "traps"

1 trap or 10 traps at a location, still takes roughly the same check time....

If I needed to set one trap to catch 1 coon- for me, foothold or a snare would be my first choice-

as far as speed- pipes are just as fast in water- you still have to anchor, and a pipe can be prebaited and it takes a sec to stick into bank. And snares are a walk in the park to set out and maintain for coon. And nothing is easier to snare than a coon-

plus, few coon trappers won't take incidental fox, nor will coon water trappers turn down mink, and lately rats in those traps.

and isn't cashing in on incidentals, also part of effcientcy in that the $$ are bigger at end of day. In a good area, I can set 6 footholds, and have a chance at multiple coon, rats and mink- and once set, takes no longer to check and reset. where with dps, i have a chance at coon only.

So efficentcy is in eyes of beholder-

and bototm line, my point isn;t dps are not good coon traps- of course they are, and I use thme every year- but they are just anothe tool, not the silver bullet as some new converts want them to be...LOL

like blackhammer said on colonies he got to using them all the time because he loved them, but then realized he was missing fur, and found a combo of footholds AND colonies, took care of that.

[ChrisM]

You're right Steve, it probably is just you.

I'd think any thinking trapper would want the trap that puts the most critters in the truck at the end of the day.

Trap efficiency does not necessarily equate to trapline efficiency.

Im not suggesting they are a silver bullet either, but If a different trap type allows you to get more traps operating quicker and keep them operating due to fewer issues with weather, skunks and such, less time to reset after catch, more time to add new sets etc.. these built in advantages can overcome any real or perceived "catch per visit" advantage of a foothold at a dirthole. Call it "real world trapline efficiency."

Why would I care if DP's have a 10% refusal rate if I can keep twice as many or even 50% more operating?

[braveheart]

Hey Calvin don't worry about the springs.They are thicker in size and strong as anything out there.And the trap come in white for the 2012 season.Just giving you a heads up!!When your ground gets frozen you will love the staking system.Will come out of the ground easy and go in easy as well.

[trappincoyotes39]

Yep Chris posted in one line, my thoughts but had to go to work.

Why would I care if DP's have a 10% refusal rate if I can keep twice as many or even 50% more operating?

Also not talking other critters but targeting a specific species in a highly efficant manner.

[calvin]

I understand that the newer Z traps have a stronger spring. I/ll be trying some next fall.

[trappnman]

are footholds for coon, really all that hard and slow, for you guys to put in?

ok, i'll accept that.

but if its taking you longer to put in pipes rather than dps, the fault I guess lays with the pipes and traps.

and if it takes you longer to put in snares, than the fault lays with the snares and BGs as well I'd suppose.

and check day- its still the SAME TIME involved.

lets put this in"real world" application- how many trappers are running 2 in the morning to 10 at night? I hear this "faster, faster, faster all the time- and it applies to 1/2 of 1% of the trappers out there that really do run like that.

lets apply it to handling fur- why on earth, would ANYONE skin, since by having someone else handle your fur, why, you could spend more time catching fur. After all, thats the goal at the end of the day, right?

how many trappers, are running more than a few traps? How many trap for more than a couple of weeks? Darn few. So why settle for easy, when you could go for efficient?

you can apply this real world thing to anything, if you want-

for example, TC, why would anyone use Sterlings etc on coyotes? after all, in the real world, the average trapper could afford 10 times as many dukes- who cares how efficient the trap is, right?

why ever argue against dukes 1.75s? I'll flat out guarantee you, I don't have near a 10% increase in coyotes with #3- so WHY? smaller trap bed to dig- why, one could save 17 secs just on that alone!

Why wax your traps for coyotes- why not speed dip? I read all the time, on how someone catches tons of coyotes in speed dipped traps- even recommends doing so, so why bother waxing? Why not go with easy?

TC- how many dps did you run? 25? 50? even 100? and you couldn't run the same number of other traps? Why not?

I like dps, I have used them since BEFORE they hit the market- thanks to Gary for sending me some to test-

I've caught many big coon in them, including one at 34 weighed lbs.

but imo, they don't replace the foothold, snare for BG for coon.

you do get more misses in them. If you don't know this, you haven't used them enough- as calvin says, your time is coming.

[motrapperjohn]

Its like this steve, just as True with trapping Rats with my new clips. Phil Brown and Bobby Smith can testify to this. They both started out using stools and I the clips. The clips are by far much faster to set with less bulk and equipment to carry around, Kinda like the Dps and footholds or BGs. I can get out way more equipment than others and thus catch more than the others. Same # of days and almost twice the #s. This has been gone over dozs of times and I think that horse is dogfood by now. And I got plum tired of removing rats and reseting traps.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman you generalize too much! In fact those that run less traps do so for a reason TIME!!!!! That is the main issue, they don't have the time to run large amounts of traps, if they did many would. So if your a LL or a hobby guy the more you can do with the time allotted the more productive one can be.

Tman you have never used Daggers correct? So tell me how much quicker a foothold is over a preset pre rigged ready to go dagger on a pogo anchor. You talk about all those misses but when I can go 3 for 3 or 4 for 4 not just 1 check but multiple I don';t see the same issues you have I guess? Push/pull! Up to us to a degree to get them to put a paw down the tube. I have found chumming to be benefical.

Snares are fast used to be my main stay in Iowa on road lines, but you still need to anchor and support those snares so time is very close to a pre set dagger start to finish.

I have 6 dozen DP's 5 dozen daggers and 1 dozen dukes. Will be adding more and trying one more brand but for sure 24 more daggers before next fall. The answer is NO I couldn';t with the time I have ran as many footholds and having the outcome equal. 1" of rain and I was redoing all my footholds the DP's add another squirt and chum and go! After a catch no muddy catch circle and no rebedding issues to deal with.

If you don't see the time savings over them in ALL weather conditions than so be it. But you can't deny the time they do save- it is real and makes a difference.

The pure beauty of these traps are they are both easy and efficant, again comes back to where your setting them and how your using them I guess.

[trappnman]

why were you redoing your coon footholds after a rain? they ain't coyote traps-

it IS new to me that you have no catch circle with dps- I'd be interested in that trick, for sure.......

are you seriously telling me, that you can't get out coon snares as fast as dps? or pre set BG traps? my lord, how much easier and faster do you want? I could set a snare as fast as you could pound in an earth anchor for a dp. Or set a BG in a trial? how much faster can it get?

or can't put a pipe in a creek bank, and set a foothold under it as fast as you could put in a dp? push pipe into bank, anchor trap- you really think that takes longer, than pushing a dp into the ground, and anchoring that?

Really?

generalize? seems to me the broad brush was handed to me.......

if speed and time savings is your motivation, then be consistent.

[trappincoyotes39]

The catch circle of a foothold is a different deal with rebedding than a DP.

I said snares where about a wash but you still have time with them and a DP is no slower for sure. Also don't have to worry about discounts on rubbed spots etc.

MO rules are cable restraint only on dryland Tman and BG's NO bigger than 5"x5" unless elevated in a tree.

A pipe in a creek bank? Why bother with carrying PVC and all that jazz when I can slam in a DP with oil and chum trail. Slick it up for eye appeal? Or better yet put them right under their nose along the bank line no need to divert at all ,a food offering right in front of their nose.

I am consistant hence the use of DP's.................

[calvin]

I trap close to T man...and can tell you that there are seasons where a coon won't stick his paw into a DP. This happened for me the year before last. Yes, we have had a lower coon population here lately. Maybe that's it. I don't know. One thing most of these coon will do however is walk up to the trap. Which means they will walk up to a pipe...which is all you need with a foot trap guarding the pipe. No need for commitment...just enough to get him to the pipe. If you don't have issues with coon committing to a dp then sobeit. I have seen plenty of coon tracks that have walked up to a DP and walked away. Change bait and the same thing. Change bait again and nope.... still aint sticking my paw down the tube. It does happen here at times.

Last year I boat trapped the river for a few days. I set one DP and one pocket next to each other in spots. I caught coon in both. However, I noted at least a couple times where the coon walked up to the DP, then away...waiting for me in a pocket. Same instance as above. Some don't commit.

That said, I still use DPs...and exclusively in some areas. There are times when I/d rather have a chunk of PVC and a foot trap, however....or a pocket. They are a tool to catch coon. Like tools, sometimes you need a screwdriver and sometimes you need a hammer.

[trappincoyotes39]

SEASONS where coons won't work DP's??? Really? One fall bang they are working great the next not so? I find that interesting for sure.

[motrapperjohn]

I have had the same thing happen here last fall but we had a big distemper kill also. The year before I had vids of where the coon wouldnt commit and the same with pockets, I think its the same with dirtholes, had vids there also. If your after JUST coon , pile on the DPs and fill in with other equipment because its hard to pass up $10 rats and $20 mink when they are in front of you.

[trappnman]

yes TC- what calvin said mirrors my observations and thoughts 100%.

esp this:

One thing most of these coon will do however is walk up to the trap. Which means they will walk up to a pipe...which is all you need with a foot trap guarding the pipe. No need for commitment...just enough to get him to the pipe.

and don't forget how very much coon actions change from day 1, until the end of season. To many that traps only fair weather, think that things remain the same. IMNSHO, the concept that coon are hungry all the time & are gluttons for food all the time, is one of the most widespread held myths in trapping.

[trappincoyotes39]

How could feeding behavior be a myth? I'm sure durring the "rut" food not as large a concern but when I'm trapping Novemeber and early Dec all the crops 100% gone and nights getting longer days shorter and temps cooling down and a decent coon population I'm not concerned as they are in the food mode at least where I'm at.

I'll see if the future holds anything close to what you experience or not. I have caught dinks to large adults so for now in my area the coon population seems to be doing ok.

Some fair weather coon trap and others fair weather coyote trap. Each to his own, I would much rather trap canines late season than coons as that is wht I have been accustomed to. Each to their own remember I'm out to make a few bucks and have fun doing it, while my kids are still in the home. After that change gears.;

[trappnman]

why did you think that was directed at you?

I listed a simple fact- not opening a debate. If you think its not, thats ok by me.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Apr 3, 2012 7:03:18 GMT -6 trappnman said:

personally, % of catch rate, is THE most important thing. Why run and maintain 200 traps, if 100 gives you the same total at the end of the day?

the tip of the tongue answer is to then double your traps- but you are STILL then talking increasing %>

I'd think that any thinking trapper, would want the highest % in catch rate possible.

but I'm sure thats just me...................

I agree with Chris.

Its whats in the truck at the end fo the day that matters.

I was kinda obsessed with my winter rat percentages and I set the way I did for years trying to keep it in the 70 percent every day.

Well I've started to change my approach this last winter and I smoked my personal best by a factor of 2.5. Mild winter had a lot to do with it but so did my change in tactics. I figure my percentage went down about 15 points.

[trappnman]

trapping rats is a little different from coon or coyotes considering trap numbers and %-

I could give a crap about rat and mink %- neither trap takes any maintenance and I can check 10 in a location same time I can check 1 or 2-

its the number I get at each location that I'm concerned about- not number of traps.

but for me, coon and coyotes are different. you have limited numbers compared to rats, and you have far, far greater ranges.

how can % NOT be important with such animals?

look back at those coyote threads- 7-10 % seems to be the standard- and the standard of "about all the traps I can maintain" is 100-125...

so to anyone wanting to increase numbers, the ONLY solution is TO GET A HIGHER % SUCCESS RATE.

you want more coyotes in back of truck> then you better increase % because that's the only way to do it.

this whole efficiency thing came about, when I said, trap for trap, they are not as efficient as other traps- that's a fact. sorry to be abrupt, but it is- you DO get more misses in dps than others. Calvin is 100% right on the money-

now does that mean you cannot compensate for that by setting out more traps cause they are so easy? no- of course you can compensate for those misses with more traps-

there is another option, but it escapes me for the moment.....

I can get out far, far more death clutch gopher traps than any other trap- by far- yet I only use a handful, because they are not even close in efficiency to the other traps I use, and only shine in specific type sets- and for those, they excel.

the old quality vs quantity debate....................