DP lesson

[trappincoyotes39]

Not a moot point but solved alot of the high end injury scores like amputation/ most of the self mutilation aspects and really helped the selectivity scores of the trap as well. All pluses in my book. No trap is 100% don't know if we will ever see one either, but the advent of the DP's have made an impact on coon trapping in general. I took 21 coons from a place without DP's I wouldn't have been able too, a guy has beagel dogs for rabbitts no other tool to use on his place due to the daily workings of the dogs, the daggers worked great and zero dog issues. Another tool in the tool chest. Opens up more ground and highly efficant.

[trappnman]

yes, dps are a good tool.

but thats not the point. In any way.

my point, is that allowing a coon movement and cover, provides visible results, that a coon does not fight a trap as hard.

a dp in the open, sans cover, is going to have a coon work harder than he would with cover-

[trappincoyotes39]

work harder? All depends on the area and coon to a point and with proper swiveling all that work, can be a wash. Versus a coon in cover not working as hard and getting the trap locked up and no swiveling correct?

[trappnman]

correct?

not in any way

its a fact, and this is based on a lot of coon over the years- that a coon, staked in the wide open, is going to work whatever is restraining him, hard. Sure, exceptions occur with a big coon held by 1 toe sleeping by the trap.But day in and day out- a coon in the pen, fights to escape much harder.

take that same coon, same trap, same hold- and when he has a few things- overhead cover, side cover, mobility, other objects to take his rage out on- he fights that trap less.

whether a foothold, a snare or a DP. Do you really think, a coon doesn't fight a DP trap? The only difference, and an important one, is less chewing at the foot, since its enclosed- but don't for a minute think foot damage isn't occurring- remember, in your coon bmps- broken toes, teeth etc added as much to traps rejections as actual CHEWING.

if you take my "entanglement" comments to mean "a locked up trap" I suggest you go and reread my multiple posts saying that exact opposite, without equivocation.

you don't of course want traps locked up and a ball of coon. chain, trap- what you want, are diversions and giving that coon something to occupy his time- branches to shake and grab on to, logs to chew, MOBILITY or at least the ILLUSION on such.

take my loose wiring around a tree- you really think being able to constantly MOVE, doesn't reduce fighting the trap- which is all, really, chewing is. And don't you think that an animal in a trap in cover, fights less (and yes weather and all play a role, as does age of animal- but GENERALLY)?

All this old nonsense about entanglement stems from the often uttered age old coon trappers advice "son, don"t ever set by a tree or branch that the coon can grab onto, cause he' pull right out!"

and the true of the matter is- entanglement (again read my above posts for exactly what I'm talking about) has far more positives going for it, than negatives.

and less traps with a toe or two in them.

PS- had some of the very first little grizs, you know, the "weak ones" with weak springs? I caught a fair amount of coon in them, including some monsters, including one wieghed at 34- and never had a pullout-

yet, others with smaller coon, were having them to the point new springs were brought into the mix.

coincidence?

maybe..maybe not.

[trappincoyotes39]

The daggers don't add up to broken toes and the feet from them look in great shape when you pull them from the trap. Teeth would be the mian issue as it would for most traps made of metal.

The advice of setting by a tree or branch would be to hinder swivel action and offering a coon more leverage than staked out in the wide open ever could. Drags have benefits without a doubt, but it is all where one uses them and one they tangle the drag into. Thicker brush means hanging up of swivels at times, I see little need with coon daggers to use drags. Coyotes different than coons for me.

[trappnman]

b]The advice of setting by a tree or branch would be to hinder swivel action [/b]

thats simply false, and posted by someone that has zero clue concerning it.

I hate to get upset, but READ my posts-

[trappincoyotes39]

I have read what you have wrote in the past but I see little need to drag dry land coons. Daggers stake solid with good swivels little to no issues. 24 hr checks so no benefit over staked solid and good swiveling. No time wasted looking for coons they are all sitting and waiting. Doesn't mean they are set on bare pastures either. Cover near by just the type that won't hinder swiveling. The picture posted is not something I want to be able to allow a coon to get to, no need and zero benefit to me with daggers.


WE are talking DP's here not foot traps and again for COON, I don';t need to preserve the set location, just reset it. Not like coyotes on a trail, where the burn out will cause hesitation or damage the natural trail. Coons could care less for the most part just rebait them up and they will work them.

[trappnman]

actually, trap dryland coon for more than a year and you will find its too a real good advantage, to preserve set locations

granted- not an issue with dps, but THATS not the point I made, tried to make, am still making concerning cover and how coons react to open and not open ground.

but carry on- sounds like you got it dicked..................

[trappnman]

and the pic posted- is NOT something I want either-

as i said clearly in my FIRST post

come on man- at least do more than skim posts you are replying to!

[motrapperjohn]

What Tman is saying is that a coon staked next to a busy road (example) with no cover is going to fight more than say one next to the road that has knee deep grass. Entanglement that hinders movement/ swiveling of the trap body will cause damage with any trap.

[trappnman]

thanks you carlis- you said in a few words, what I've been trying to with many...................

[trappincoyotes39]

I understand that, what I'm saying is with the tool and a good anchor the fighting a coon does to a DP is minimal at best. I also made it clear not talking the felt on a pool table open either. No critter is more fight happy than a coyote, that is why adding things to a trap can take the fight out of them. Most coyotes outside of dense cover feel very edgy in a trap and fight them hard, can be minimized with add ons and a good anchor. See no different with a coon and not near as hard fighting as a coyote. WE already covered the chewing aspect of the coon with the DP. I believe the thought process was a coyote fights a trap for only the first 15 mins or so? So what makes the coon such a hard charger when it comes to being contained with a DP?

There are different ways to have the same end result and again this thread is DP speciifc and was never meant to get back into the old Coon BMP debate, the DP's came about as a result of BMP"s as well. Tman wants to make this an issue of cover and 1.5's making the grade on the coon bmp's we have been over that time and time again.

[thebeav2]

First of all T man your not explaining entanglement very well.
I know your a big fan of large tree branches for drags. But In 90% of all situations most of us aren't going to have access to this type of drag. I would have to pass up 90% of all my locations If I was to use your method. Same with wire tied loose around a tree. it just doesn't happen on Most trap lines.

Now I will admit that over head cover Is very effective when using foot holds for coon. Not so sure It makes a difference when using DPs. But how many situations occur on our trap lines that has over head cover that doesn't lead to extensive brush which In my opinion tends to eliminate the traps swiveling action.
Now when I slide a trap Into a culvert It calms the coon and they In my opinion hardly fight the trap at all. And In my type of trapping there are millions of these locations.And there Is NO entanglement.

I have seen lots of polishing on both DPs and foot holds but very little actual chewing on the trap It's self.

[trappnman]

beav, as I've said before, if you dont have water, I'm guessing you don't water trap...............

and if you trap coon with no trees around, then I'm guessing you haven't used branch drags.

if you had, you would see what I see, and what those that folow my methods see-

and that is, despite what one mighht think happens, doesn't.

so , as always, do whatver you like- i'm telling what has worked for me, for over 2 decades since I went to my "system"

just curious though- whats your opinion, on how that trap gets polished so bright and shiny?

NeverDull?

[thebeav2]

Why does that trap get polished?

Very simple the coon actually uses It's paws to polish the trap. I have watched lots of coon doing this. It's not by chewing.

Sure I water trap but in 90% of those cases I don't have access to any drags that would be suitable for a coon drag. Most If not all downed wood Is so rotten that a coon would chew It up In minutes. And the rest of It you would need two men and a boy to drag It to the set location. And I'm not going to run around cutting down live or dead trees to set up a drag system. Look at some of Nick Cs trap line pictures you see any trees growing In those ditches?
Now If your so Inclined to use drags just set up your coon traps with 10' of chain and a 2prong coyote grapnel.

If your trapping In the water keep the coon In the water and that doesn't mean you have to drown It, just keep It In the water. And 98% of any chewing problems will go away.

Do what ever you do but It Isn't the silver bullet that you make It out to be.

[trappnman]

its quite obvious you have simply never tried my methods

and again- you say you have no trees, then obviously you haven't tried my methods, nor could.

#1- in hardwood forests, its A) not a problem to find suitable drags and B) that years branches are not only not "mostly rotten" but the 100% opposite is true- in many areas, I'll use the same drag for several years. To state otherwise, show ZERO experience with such.

#2- who cares what iowa is like vis a vis trees? AGAIN, and this seems so basic- if you don't have trees- CARRY ON!

#3- I said that for years, a coon sitting in water doesn't chew if he CANNOT REACH HIS FOOT. but you sure must have funny coon, cause many coon I've had sitting in water without land access, but able to CHEW, have.

#4- silver bullet/ good grief man, get a grip- its not a silver bullet, but paying attention to cover, and (disclaimer if you have no trees, skip) allowing movement into and out of entanglement- DOES reduce chewing to a small, small fraction of what it was before doing so.

and by having the coon bmps allow such setting (and don"t go down that false trial of "traps not methods" when the coyote bmp is FILLED with methods.) indeed, even testing it- would have allowed single jaw foothold traps to be "passed" unlike your sitting in water methods, which was forbidden as a method to use.

Again -you live where there are no trees or brush lots- then I'll galdly concede my methods wouldn't work, in their entirety, for you ie branch drags.

but if you are having coon "power out of raps" and oy uARe loosing a few con by chewouts, and you don't live in the gasslands of S Wi or Iowa-

then by incorporating my methods, yo uwill #1- have far less damaged coon, if thats a concern and 2) and this might be more important- you will eliminate almost entirely, looses due to chewing.

and btw- that catch circle and no coon? He didn't pullout, he CHEWED out.

PS- I disagree with your conclusion that coons polish traps with their feet- to counter your polishing ancedote, I've seen a lot of coon chewing on coyote traps. but who knows?

PPS- your advice on long chians and coon, only works well in areas without trees. in areas with trees, long chains are bad. and if you are talking the traditional fishhook type drags- no.

Coon foul the hooks up far too much, and I've had coon take them farther than yotes do in freezing weather and grass.

been there, done that.

flat ground no trees, yes, i'd use a tracker type drag-but anythinnwith trees, and 10 feet and detemrination, gives yo usome interesitng results.

[MRussell]

I use pogos and when I first started trapping with DP's I've had coons power out if they could get the cable stretched tight and something to really pull against with the other three feet. I think if the trap becomes stationary and the coon gets the right leverage it can get out.

no right no wrong just what happened.

[motrapperjohn]

Try pulling a coon out of a Dagger compared to a round one. Straight pull, side by side. You will be amazed at the difference.