Post by trappnman on Dec 30, 2011 11:13:08 GMT -6
Regarding the question of those that "don't bait em up"ie. not using carcasses at the location site.
The results are:
21.4%- too much trouble hauling carcasses
17.8%- afraid of bad PR
1%- farmers won't let you
25%- you see no value in it
32%- other- please specify
still not sure what "other" could be, perhaps this discussion might bring that out......
-------------------------------------
From the poll "do you use carcasses at the set location"?
17.6% - Are you using skinned carcasses?
9.6%- Are you using calves,sheep,pigs,some livestock?
17.6%- Do you haul it to where you want it?
1.6%- Do you only set established dead piles?
How close are you setting from the Bait:
2.6%- 10'?
5.3%- 30'?
8.5%- 50'?
11.2%- 100' or more?
Do you pre-bait:
3.7%- Through the course of the year?
2.1%- a month or two before season?
13.9% -During season?
the % don't add up to 100%, because of poll option limitations in setting it up but the gist of it is still there insofar as duration of time of pre-baiting.
-----------------------------------------
"The Silver Bullet" as Wiley used to call it, cleanliness:
7.1%- Are you anal about it?
64.2%- Are you somewhat careful?
11.9%- Pay no attention to "cleanliness"?
5.9%- Do you not move baits because of contamination?
5.9%- Do you carry fresh set AND remake tools?
4.7%- Is digging at a set usually "contamination?
-----------------------------------------------------------
So there are the results of our polls, and to me, the reveal a few interesting things. What would be invaluable, would be to be able to tie in experience, with the poll answers.
to know if someone had a certain belief, what type of experience that belief was coming from.
I know from my own experience, that my thoughts and methods are constantly evolving, albeit slowly (I've been accused, yes it shocks me as well, that I can be stubborn!)
For example, skinning in the field. I've skun (Merriam-Webster defines skun as a dialectal past tense of skin) exactly 2 coyotes at home in last 2 years, and I'll never go back to skinning them at home again.
Why did I never do so- for many of the concerns shown in the poll- too much hassle, coyote carcasses all over, etc. But 1080 finally convinced me to do it- and all my concerns not only went away, but the benefits were threefold- no skinning cold coyotes, no hauling caresses around all day, haul them to shed, back in truck at morning, haul to an "approved" dump site meaning established dead pile. plus the #1 reason (rest was just bonus) of, as 1080 has preached- stall em' out, bait them up.
I found out that skinning cold coyotes is a chore, skinning warm coyotes is easy-peasy. Farmers don't even know they are there- between the eagles, hawks crows and other scavengers, the carcasses disappeared quickly, and I never saw any evidence, of anything placed about last year. and the "bother" of skinning in the field, so dissipated to the thought if I took them home, now THAT was bother. Sure is nice having the bonus of getting home, and having everything skun, so just put up was left.
and I'm not shy about asking farmers that if they have dead calves, let me know- or more often, the farmer will ask if something dies, is there anywhere I want them to put it. Heck, I even had a farmer stop me and tell me they had a calf to put down, and if I would do it, I could have it for bait. Well, sure I will..........
as far as cleanliness, when starting out, I was convinced that my problems, was too much human odor and contamination at the set area, and I was anal, or at least tried to be, in my approach to sets, indeed,d even using remake tools for remake,s fresh set tools only at fresh sets.
I soon found out that #1- real P.I.A. to keep things separate, to keep to that plan- and then was involved in the infamous Silver Bullet discussions with Wiley et al- and at the beginning argued for cleanliness, but through Wileys responses and phone calls, I swung around to the other position, one I hold to this day, and that's you will never, ever convince a coyote that you were not there. Sure fresh human odor will spook a coyote- I've seen examples of it on calling tapes, where the coyote comes in over the walk in path of the hunter, and I mean ASAP when they hit fresh scent , the are turned and gone!
but that fresh scent dissipates quickly, and while they know you were there, they also know you are not there NOW.
About this same time, I was trapping for the collaring program, and the first few, I had 4-6 people standing around the set, while we measured, etc the coyote, put the collar on, etc. They would spit, smoke, etc and I just cringed- but know what? remake success didn't change over my being cautious, and having a party at the set.
Since then I don't worry about it- I answered "somewhat careful" because I don't go out of my way to "contaminate" things.
and some things just are- a prime example is rusting traps. I know many say rust has no bearing, and I agree, old rusted traps seem to have no effect But I've seen it so many times over the years, that a fresh rusty trap, over time, meaning in the ground 2 weeks or more does (with my methods, set designs, etc)
show me, via tracks at the pattern, that the only place some will not step, is OVER that fresh rust.
I know, I know- a coyote walks across rusted stuff all the time- but in my minds eye, big difference in having an old piece of fence buried underground in a "natural" setting meaning hes smelled and what over barb wire hundreds of times- vs a hole in the ground, with unnatural curiosity odors coming forth, some human scent around, and a big chunk of metal covered with fresh orange rust.
Perhaps when my mechanics get so good, that I could smear a trap with buffalo grease and have no avoidance or misses, I'd say fresh rust doesn't matter but with my methods now- it does matter. I can replace that freshly rusted trap with a new one, and the problem is solved- same set, same lures, same methods, just different trap.
I can see, 1 question I should have added, was "why do you primarily wax traps"
anyways, there's a few of my thoughts on what the poll revealed- any other comments, thoughts, etc would be welcome, but please keep them constructive and not argumentative when opinions differ.
The results are:
21.4%- too much trouble hauling carcasses
17.8%- afraid of bad PR
1%- farmers won't let you
25%- you see no value in it
32%- other- please specify
still not sure what "other" could be, perhaps this discussion might bring that out......
-------------------------------------
From the poll "do you use carcasses at the set location"?
17.6% - Are you using skinned carcasses?
9.6%- Are you using calves,sheep,pigs,some livestock?
17.6%- Do you haul it to where you want it?
1.6%- Do you only set established dead piles?
How close are you setting from the Bait:
2.6%- 10'?
5.3%- 30'?
8.5%- 50'?
11.2%- 100' or more?
Do you pre-bait:
3.7%- Through the course of the year?
2.1%- a month or two before season?
13.9% -During season?
the % don't add up to 100%, because of poll option limitations in setting it up but the gist of it is still there insofar as duration of time of pre-baiting.
-----------------------------------------
"The Silver Bullet" as Wiley used to call it, cleanliness:
7.1%- Are you anal about it?
64.2%- Are you somewhat careful?
11.9%- Pay no attention to "cleanliness"?
5.9%- Do you not move baits because of contamination?
5.9%- Do you carry fresh set AND remake tools?
4.7%- Is digging at a set usually "contamination?
-----------------------------------------------------------
So there are the results of our polls, and to me, the reveal a few interesting things. What would be invaluable, would be to be able to tie in experience, with the poll answers.
to know if someone had a certain belief, what type of experience that belief was coming from.
I know from my own experience, that my thoughts and methods are constantly evolving, albeit slowly (I've been accused, yes it shocks me as well, that I can be stubborn!)
For example, skinning in the field. I've skun (Merriam-Webster defines skun as a dialectal past tense of skin) exactly 2 coyotes at home in last 2 years, and I'll never go back to skinning them at home again.
Why did I never do so- for many of the concerns shown in the poll- too much hassle, coyote carcasses all over, etc. But 1080 finally convinced me to do it- and all my concerns not only went away, but the benefits were threefold- no skinning cold coyotes, no hauling caresses around all day, haul them to shed, back in truck at morning, haul to an "approved" dump site meaning established dead pile. plus the #1 reason (rest was just bonus) of, as 1080 has preached- stall em' out, bait them up.
I found out that skinning cold coyotes is a chore, skinning warm coyotes is easy-peasy. Farmers don't even know they are there- between the eagles, hawks crows and other scavengers, the carcasses disappeared quickly, and I never saw any evidence, of anything placed about last year. and the "bother" of skinning in the field, so dissipated to the thought if I took them home, now THAT was bother. Sure is nice having the bonus of getting home, and having everything skun, so just put up was left.
and I'm not shy about asking farmers that if they have dead calves, let me know- or more often, the farmer will ask if something dies, is there anywhere I want them to put it. Heck, I even had a farmer stop me and tell me they had a calf to put down, and if I would do it, I could have it for bait. Well, sure I will..........
as far as cleanliness, when starting out, I was convinced that my problems, was too much human odor and contamination at the set area, and I was anal, or at least tried to be, in my approach to sets, indeed,d even using remake tools for remake,s fresh set tools only at fresh sets.
I soon found out that #1- real P.I.A. to keep things separate, to keep to that plan- and then was involved in the infamous Silver Bullet discussions with Wiley et al- and at the beginning argued for cleanliness, but through Wileys responses and phone calls, I swung around to the other position, one I hold to this day, and that's you will never, ever convince a coyote that you were not there. Sure fresh human odor will spook a coyote- I've seen examples of it on calling tapes, where the coyote comes in over the walk in path of the hunter, and I mean ASAP when they hit fresh scent , the are turned and gone!
but that fresh scent dissipates quickly, and while they know you were there, they also know you are not there NOW.
About this same time, I was trapping for the collaring program, and the first few, I had 4-6 people standing around the set, while we measured, etc the coyote, put the collar on, etc. They would spit, smoke, etc and I just cringed- but know what? remake success didn't change over my being cautious, and having a party at the set.
Since then I don't worry about it- I answered "somewhat careful" because I don't go out of my way to "contaminate" things.
and some things just are- a prime example is rusting traps. I know many say rust has no bearing, and I agree, old rusted traps seem to have no effect But I've seen it so many times over the years, that a fresh rusty trap, over time, meaning in the ground 2 weeks or more does (with my methods, set designs, etc)
show me, via tracks at the pattern, that the only place some will not step, is OVER that fresh rust.
I know, I know- a coyote walks across rusted stuff all the time- but in my minds eye, big difference in having an old piece of fence buried underground in a "natural" setting meaning hes smelled and what over barb wire hundreds of times- vs a hole in the ground, with unnatural curiosity odors coming forth, some human scent around, and a big chunk of metal covered with fresh orange rust.
Perhaps when my mechanics get so good, that I could smear a trap with buffalo grease and have no avoidance or misses, I'd say fresh rust doesn't matter but with my methods now- it does matter. I can replace that freshly rusted trap with a new one, and the problem is solved- same set, same lures, same methods, just different trap.
I can see, 1 question I should have added, was "why do you primarily wax traps"
anyways, there's a few of my thoughts on what the poll revealed- any other comments, thoughts, etc would be welcome, but please keep them constructive and not argumentative when opinions differ.
