applying urine at the set?

[wheelie]

Sept 12, 2011 19:59:06 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

It can help mask some rusting issues
.

Is rust really an issue?

Maybe out west I guess after thinking about it, but in the east there is rust every 20feat from various things (beer cans, barb wire, etc.
If a yote was concerned with rust (in its mind) it wouldn't run fence lines, go near city dumps, etc

[Wright Brothers]

Shallow Bury something rusting at a remake circle and see if it gets dug. I'd bet many times it would. Not that "I" think they know it's danger, but curiosity of the smell.

Something I find myself doing is. Some remakes seem to really turn on for me. If the remake set stalls out, I squirt urine in the hole or post and it lights that set back up. Doing that probably satisfies my impatients more than anything. The set I hooked the bear last year sat there for a few days prior, then after the bear the gates were open. I expected a catch daily, and used plenty of urine there. It will be interesting to see if that set area "still" has activity this season. I bet it does. Perhaps I'll carry urine on my preseason scout.

Wether any of that helps with catches or just helps my peice of mind I don't know. But it works for me.

In yackin with other trappers about remakes, the only tangable of why some like em and some don't that I could observe was, lure use or lack of, at remakes.

One other thought. I'm finding a bunch of different urines that are top notch on the market these days. Thanks for those that produce it, I'll buy rather than try to collect.

[trappnman]

I agree with WB -

Rusted metal in the ground, isn't the same thing as a RUSTING trap made at a location with lots of human scent, disturbances, lures, etc.

If I've seen it once back in the day, I've seen it a 100 times, where you get a set with tracks everywhere but over the trap- dig up the trap, and its covered with FRESH rust.

I started misting sets- and was interested to read in Hoofbeats where O'G states that for rusting traps, he will use a gal of urine, to heavily mist 50 or so traps, and by doing so, he reduces and/or eliminates the avoidance caused by that rusting trap.

Leggets have their 3 day rule- that if in rusting conditions, if a trap that has made a catch doesn't have another in 3 days, the trap is replaced.

lots of things in trapping are singular to that trapper, but I'm 100% convinced, based on too many times seeing what occurs, that a RUSTING trap, does indeed put off some coyotes.

to have this confirmed by O'G and the Leggets, just seals the deal.

todays modern trapper, uses urine as a lure-

the old timers, used it as a suspicion remover, thus, used it more often than not around the set, not at the focal point of the backing, hole.

[Wright Brothers]

I tried misting years back. Couldn't keep a mister working. Either they plugged up or got ate up from caustic, or I broke the top off.

And one observation was, the mister was not consistant and tracks in snow showed where he worked the heavier misted area and missed the pan. Maybe that lead me to, down the hole.

This is what keeps this game fun. Learning all the time, and talking/comparing to you guys observations. And, sensing you guys "chomping at the bit" like myself.

[wheelie]

OG is a western trapper and rust may effect his coyote catch more so than where I live or Andy lives or Bob lives or zagger, etc
Leggit was in fox country when he was using his methods/3 day rule back in the day.
Fox are even dumber than yotes, Ron must have smart fox

The last thing I would do is replace a trap that has "made the catch" rusting or not.
Its gonna take a lot of "rust" stink to get past the heavy stinking poo & pee that was deposited on the trap, in the trap, around the trap.
A catch circle smells like a coyotes ass for days if not weeks. You will never forget the smell. I can smell it now just thinking about it...lol

Pulling a trap because it made a catch and replacing with a new one is when I say you get your digging,flipping, avoidance.
Everything in the catch circle smells the same until you put in a fresh trap. The fresh waxed/dyed trap is the only foreign thing in the circle then.

PS, and after 3 days I pull the trap anyway rusting or not (after a catch as I'm movin by then to fresh ground as I caught the quick and movin on.
So you can say rusty trap is why no yote catch from catch circle set or you can say "no mo" quick yotes and move on to new quick set of yotes.

[trappincoyotes39]

wheelie rusting beer cans? They haven't made steel beer cans since the 70's man LOL.

Newlt formed rust is far different than an ld rusty fence, heck I can smell the differance I'm sure a coyote can to. Actually OG lives in an area with less humidity than do other parts of the country, mainly 30-40% versus much higher in other places.

No fear at all traps get dug that have newly formed rust because of the out of place smell pure and simple. How many coyotes get to ponder over newly formed rust with a catch circle anywhere in the US? Not something they can get used to for sure. So they will dig at them, the options are cover in heavy urine or add new fresh sets close by.

[trappincoyotes39]

A coyote doesn't associate anything of a trap, the smell of rust creates a response nothing more or less, fresh rusting metal has a distinct odor to it, that is a fact. I haven't sat down with a coyote to ask what they think of the smell, but they dig to find the source of such smell. it isn't a response of fear or to move away the majority of the time, but one that they seem to like to dig at to find the source meaning you get dug up traps.

Fresh dirt has caught plenty of coyotes with nothing else at a set, that association comes from digging up gophers, p-dogs and the likes.

Fresh rust is what it is, a smell they need to define and by doing so a dug up trap. I have found the worst rust ,the wet slimy type to happen in heavy clay soils with high akaline content and they sure will dig them up. That I do know.

[trappnman]

Actually Tim, I think the opposite is true- the further east, the more wet ground, and the more humid air, thus traps rust more in the east, then they ever do in the west.

As far as the Leggets having "smart" fox I wouldn't know, I just know what they stated in the demos I watched.

Regarding remakes: never did I say, or imply, that working the set (ie no coyotes) was in any way my concern- i clearly stated it was in fact just the opposite.

I have no trouble with remakes- heck, after a few days, everything is a remake between the yotes and the incidentals.

what I spoke of, was very specific- a shined up trap, staying in the ground. If you pull after 3 days, then you are never in the position of having enough rust to bother.

but if you have a shiny trap, in wet ground, and DO leave them in for more than 3 days- its very obvious that a rusting trap, causes some concern to a coyote- this is evidenced by tracks all over- except at and over the trap- and without fail, such a trap dug up, is revealed to have a good coating of FRESH rust.

Now, to imply that a coyote knows its a "trap" is silly, and no one has again, stated that- or even given an inkle of that.

what was stated, was that in a man made hole in the ground, with artificial lures, with collection urine, with human scent all over- that some if not many coyotes, will AVOID the ground under which a RUSTING trap sits- avoided not because its a "trap" but avoid because its a different odor- a not common odor despite "all that iron rusted in the ground."

not a common odor, under THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES

the ARE NOT avoiding the set- in no way is THAT occurring- they are avoiding ONE SPECIFIC area-

and both the Leggets, and O'G have come to the same conclusion- leggets compensate by changing the trap- O'G by spraying urine.

both actions, were done for one reason- to cover up or remove, a RUSTING trap. Again, not because a coyote knows its a "trap"- but because a coyote knows its NOT RIGHT under those circumstances

[wheelie]

A coyote "should" know that it isn't right that his buddy got smacked down the night before and human scent is all over/ in the catch circle (with remade set).
The coyote should think "hmmm...something is not right" and avoid the area all together. But same coyote walks into catch circle anyways and gets caught.
Real geniuses...lol

Oh, and the smart coyote that saw his buddy go down in said catch circle May avoid that circle for life or until it has cooled down.
Making 3/MORE sets at each stop gives smart/shy yote a fresh set to work from (that don't have a fresh rusting trap).
Or ya could take him & buddy & sis all the same night.
Kinda like "look sis, buddy is just spinin in a small circle round & round". sis looks at Bro and says "looks like fun", Bro says "I agrea" and around and round they go till ya get there.....lol
Kinda making my head spin thinkin about it..

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby

[trappnman]

your argument could well be likened to me saying I can't drive my car to get to work cause its broke, and you say ride a bike, take a train take a plane.............

When I said I can't drive my car to work- I knew there were other options but my quest was to fix the car for use over the long term....................

car = RUSTING trap.

I keep highlighting RUSTING because it is quite different, from RUSTED

anyone who has trail trapped with footholds, knows two thing- animals like otter, coon, possums, beaver etc can be taken as easily in an uncovered trap, as a covered trap- just bed it so its level with the ground, no covering needed. I know this from 3 years of otter trapping using such sets.

I also know, that do the same with coyotes, and you won't catch too many.

so its true- a coyote watches where he places his feet.

now- again- if you are moving after 2-3 days then your debate on results of rusting traps, really is moot, is it not? you don't have enough rust to bother.

I didn't come up with the theory of avoiding fresh rust just for S & G- the theory was GIVEN to me, by the coyotes.

their feet, didn't lie. same thing noticed with speed dipped traps in rainy weather- one of the reasons I don't dip traps anymore- and through frustration & ignorance, I started spraying the sets.and Voila! day and night...

hmmn..

coincidence?

went both ways for a few years- and again, the tracks, told me what I needed to know

then I read Hoofbeats- and loo and behold- there was O'G, in print, stating what I had observed.

and then went east and watched the leggets demo- and wow- same thing.

now they BOTH could have stated the exact opposite-e and MY opinion would be unchanged, because, again, the coyotes told the story.

and keep in mind also, that we are talking areas where traps ARE in the ground for more than 3 days.

personally last year ran nothing longer than a 4-6 day check, and wouldn't want to go much shorter than that, cause it leaves out so many variables such as weather, use patterns of the land, etc.

[thebeav2]

When I live market trapped I very seldom had fox or coyotes refuse the re make. I tend to believe the differenc was I didn't make a kill at the set.
When we caught a feral dog at the set I started killing them on the spot. That was a death sentence for that set. Then I started using my catch pole and dragging those dogs off a few yards and then doing the nasty. That solved the problem.