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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Sept 5, 2011 9:34:52 GMT -6
Any advantage to copper snare stops over aluminum? Seems they wouldn't be as shiny?
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Post by farmboy on Sept 5, 2011 9:44:57 GMT -6
I boil my snares with a little baking soda and it takes the shine right off them, stops, ferrules and all. Everything goes kind of grayish white. Blends in real well in the snow. I can see how copper might be a better choice when blending into your sand and rocks, however.
I wonder about bi-metal corrosion between the copper and the galvanized wire? Any chemists reading this?
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cmr2
Demoman...
Posts: 115
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Post by cmr2 on Sept 5, 2011 14:08:41 GMT -6
probabilty less than the aluminum and galvanized ,but I'm not a chemist ,the softer of the two is the corrostion ,zinc/alum. are the softer metals and the alum is real easy to corrode
I like the way F-1 one looks and after this year will see how it works ,its just enoungh to knock the shine off but not completely away they look like a vine hanging
the baking soda give you any fits on left overs from year to year
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Post by farmboy on Sept 5, 2011 18:23:01 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean by giving me fits.... I've never noticed the "brittling" some speak of and I don't notice any more losses with left-overs. If you mean the stops slipping I haven't used a single-hole aluminum endstop in ten years or more. I use a ferrule for a stop, doubling the end into itself and pound it flat. Impossible to slip.
BTW, where are you from cmr2?
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Post by robertw on Sept 5, 2011 19:24:36 GMT -6
The copper ferrules are commonly used on stainless snares for salt water marshe applications.
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cmr2
Demoman...
Posts: 115
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Post by cmr2 on Sept 6, 2011 19:39:44 GMT -6
was wondering if the bakeing soda made them rust
got it fixed for the second time (location)
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Post by RdFx on Sept 6, 2011 20:26:38 GMT -6
If you boil your snares too long in baking soda and you have snare for a couple years you can get rusting inside of cable and it becomes brittle....this come from my experience many years back. If you use cable same year in boiling you shouldnt have any problems. Dont know if anyone else has had this problem in years past.
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Post by foxcatcher1 on Sept 18, 2011 1:48:21 GMT -6
If you boil your snares too long in baking soda and you have snare for a couple years you can get rusting inside of cable and it becomes brittle....this come from my experience many years back. If you use cable same year in boiling you shouldnt have any problems. Dont know if anyone else has had this problem in years past. I don't boil my snares but I had a problem 2 years ago with my coon snares. All of the sudden coons were breaking them off and I had no idea why. I was using the same 5/64s 1X19 cable that I had always used for them. The snares looked perfectly fine both assembled and the broken ones. But, after closer inspection, I could see a small amount of rust near the core of the snare cable. If you worked the cable back and forth you could feel the rusted strands breaking inside. I now use fresh snares or treat the left over ones after the season. Don |
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Post by trappnman on Sept 18, 2011 8:00:52 GMT -6
I know Rally is against the idea of boiling snares- he says that the boiling removes the oil inside the cable, thus leading to rusting as mentioned.
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Post by robertw on Sept 18, 2011 19:53:16 GMT -6
They were not rinsed as they should have been after boiling in the baking soda.
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Post by foxcatcher1 on Sept 18, 2011 22:17:43 GMT -6
I know Rally is against the idea of boiling snares- he says that the boiling removes the oil inside the cable, thus leading to rusting as mentioned. Thats funny...the snares I'm talking about I got from Rally I think. I make them myself now but they are modeled after the ones I got from him. |
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Post by RdFx on Sept 19, 2011 4:49:52 GMT -6
Robert explain further your rinsing comment.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 19, 2011 8:23:14 GMT -6
Rallys the snare guy thats for sure- I've watched his snare making demo a time or two, and he always stresses don't boil snares. And the reason being, it removes all internal oil. Rinsing wouldn't replace that.
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Post by Rally Hess on Sept 20, 2011 22:31:58 GMT -6
Copper stops are used on stainless cable in saltwater applications, like sailboat riggings, nets, or snares used in saltwater or brackish water. Saltwater has a chemical reaction to aluminum on stainless cable.
I wouldn't recomend boiling any cable, wether you rinse it or not. The baking soda is not what causes the corrosion of the cable and only aids in the removal of the cable lubricants, which most often are a mixture of mineral oil and graphite, or maybe light parafins in some internal lubed cables. Manufacturers are not real talkative when asked about lubricants they use, and some Chinese cable I've seen smelled like used motor oil LOL.
When you boil cable the heat causes the lubricant to seperate from the cable leaving it unprotected, and even galvanized cable will start to deteriorate when it again gets wet, and the internal voids of the cable will hold moisture longer than the external surfaces of the cable, which are exposed to the air. Infact cable even partially submerged in water(like a beaver set) will actually draw water into the internal voids of the cable like a straw. Like any metal that has no protective coating it will erode. The stronger the chemicals in the water(tannic acids from leaves etc)the faster this process will occur. Add to that the constant changing of temperature from cold to hot while being exposed to nature while the snare is set, and moisture from dew or frost, and you have a metal that is unprotected and exposed to moisture all day. A sure recipe for shortening the life of any metal, galvanized or not.
By boiling in baking soda you not only remove the lubricant but add the additional grit from the leftover baking soda, which tends to cling to the cable and leave a whitish look to the cable, which some northern snareman like, because it blends better with the white background of snowladen woods.
Some snareman use the latex dips after boiling the lubricants off and then dip them. This at least fills some of the voids in the cable with latex(rubber) leaving it less exposed to the elements, but makes the cable stiffer and slows the lock movement,by replacing a clean metal to metal bearing surface with a metal to rubber surface. Some snareman eliminate this to some extent by thinning the dip solution to leave thinner coat on the cable once dried, and by running the lock back and forth over the cable surface a few times to eliminate any excessive build up on the cable surface.
Some snareman use the oil based dips that mix with gas/white gas/coleman fuel and leaves a evn coat and replaces some of the removed lubricants in the cable but dry hard and again may leave a finnish that slows the action of the snare and may leave an odor on the snares. I even know one customer who dipped his snares in netcoating, with dismal results.
Anybody that has seen my snare making demo will tell you I advocate doing absolutely nothing to your snares or cable. The manufactures of good cable use the appropriate lubricants for the materials they use to prolong the life of the cable and allow the least amount of binding of the bundles between the bundles of the multi strand cables we use. The lubricants have little to no odor and any exposure to the elements will cause them to absorb some of the odors to which they are exposed. The cables are fairly porous in construction and will have the dust of whatever is around them settling on them whenever they are set. They will assume the odor of whatever the wind carries to it's surface.
I most often hear snareman tell me they believe they are getting refusals from snares that are not colored because the animals can see the shine of the cable, especially on bright moonlit nights. I tell them to go out on most any night after dark and shine a flashlight into the woods, grass, snow, cattails, and tell me what they see. Most often there will be either a dew, a frost, or a rainy night, and everything shines. Is the snare the only thing that is not covered or affected by the elements and it imediately alerts an animal traveling down that trail? The last research I read canines define white and black colors the best. Why would I want to darken or lighten my snares? The silver or grey color that best describes a cables surface, is more "neutral" than either black or white in a canines vision.
Like everyone else I've had my share of refusals at my snare locations, and like most in my run and gun days I'd just reset the knocked down snare or laugh off the miss/thrown snare. At some point I remeber a particular coyote that approached a snare and detoured out and around that snare as some distance and never missed a stride. That really threw me for a loop at that point because I was really getting into snare performance at that time and feeling pretty cocky about that falls catch,and this being late winter. The location was in a stand of regrowth Popple and about 15" of snow. The trail was so blatant I only set this one snare and was quite confident I'd have that coyote that day, maybe the next if it had eaten it's fill of the roadkilled deer about 1/4 mile away in this regrowth. That coyote left that trail about 10' before it got to the snare and returned to it about 10' after the snare. I walked back to the snowmachine and got another snare. Walked parallel to the trail about 30' past the first snare and set another snare in a slight jog in the trail. I started to head back and looked down the trail at the first snare. It stood out like a circle it was, amidst a background of vertical popple and flat snow surface. That really got me to thinking about what an animal sees when it approaches a set snare. I went back to the first snare and blocked it down some with small popple twigs and limbs so the loop didn't look round. I had my coyote in that snare the next day, but only after it had done the same walk around it had done on the first snare, because it too stood out and appeared round to the coyote and just plain didn't look right in that surrounding. That incident made quite an impression on me and has changed the way I set and look at my snares from then to this day.
The reason I relay this incident here is that I truly believe that the circle shape is not one that an animal is accustomed to seing in it's daily routine, and by us introducing it in the form of a snare loop, in a trail or natural setting will put them on the alert. Can you think of anything in nature that is round like a snare loop, or that an animal would come in contact with on a regular basis? I've had people at my demos say a culvert, but even the bottom of a culvert is usually covered in dirt or water, and much larger than a snare loop.
In my observations, most refusals are not from the color of a snare but from the shape of a snare loop, and anything I can do at the set to keep the loop from appearing round without hindering the closure of that snare will result in the animal not avoiding the loop, and the addition of some side or top blocking will appear to to the animal as a shape they encounter any day of their lives. I've found adding sticks, twigs, cattails, pine bows, grass wads, or ferns to the sides or top to be beneficial in breaking the outline of the circle shape of that loop. I tell people to let them see a frown(top of loop) or a smile(bottom of loop) and blend the sides or top and the animals will attempt to enter the loop without breaking stride.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 21, 2011 9:14:57 GMT -6
excellent post Rally!
and then you add in Mn loop laws, and I can see that circle is right in a direct line with their eyes.
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