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Post by BadDog on Jun 4, 2011 8:11:43 GMT -6
I was at the big sale this week... Wow! One of my pet interests are them spotted cats. I spent much time going thru the cats, very educational. One thing that I did notice was that them New Mexico cats consistently rate as the very best of the best. I was surprised as New Mexico is a very warm piece of country compared to what I am used to. The cats did seem to have a noticably shorter nap than the cats I am used to seeing, but seem to be of heavy enough quality to sell as a heavy cat and consistently end up in the top lots, as well as the many other high grade lots. So what's the deal in New Mexico? Resident trapping only? Reciprocal, or wide open free for all non res trapping? Just curious, have no plans of my own to ever trap there. I would venture to say that the good NM cats came from the high elevation areas and that the lower ground has yucky flat cats? or not? So just FYI, the top cats are pulled in from many states, New Mexico at the top from what I seen, but also Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Colorado and even Kansas. The Top Lot if memory served me correctly was representative of 10 differering steas, or was it 11? It was a sight to see. I had a string of 12 cats in my hand that was worth $14,400.  |
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Post by TurTLe on Jun 4, 2011 10:48:38 GMT -6
I'd still say that some of the high desert cats in Arizona are some of the best, but I'm biased. Western Kansas does have some pretty nice cats. It is amazing to me the difference in quality of cats in just s 50 mile drive. Here we get a lot of red rabbit backed brown belly's and just 50 miles to the west you get into wide belly's with good spots and nice blue backs. It's literally like night and day.
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Post by monstertom on Jun 4, 2011 12:27:47 GMT -6
On average how many cats were in each lot of western cats? 12 in the top lot. but what after that.
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Post by FWS on Jun 4, 2011 17:38:52 GMT -6
Gotta realize something about this though, you most likely didn't see the best of the best because those were bought trapper direct or at sales like NV, OR, CO.
One of the biggest cat buyers in the West was just South of me back in the 80's and I'd see cats from every Western state in his facility. The consistently best of the best, as he felt, were from NV and Eastern CA (same cats for the most part), with E. OR and AZ up there too. Those were in numbers back then too, before the leghold bans when CA produced around 8000+ & AZ around 6000 each annually, CO around 1500. It's around 10% of that now.
Out of curiosity what were the years on the CITES tags if you knew to look at them ? I saw there were like 17,000 cats at this sale ? Which leads me to think a whole lot were holdovers from previous years, dealer and trapper alike.
Not even that far in the coastal ranges here, they vary from range to range, with the geologic influences and soil types making a difference in pelt coloration. See that in gray fox too.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jun 4, 2011 20:28:44 GMT -6
Out of curiosity what were the years on the CITES tags if you knew to look at them ? I saw there were like 17,000 cats at this sale ? Which leads me to think a whole lot were holdovers from previous years, dealer and trapper alike.
John if you look at the NAFA archive for May of 09 there was over 18000 cats offered with the majority sold so 17000 isnt really that many.
2008 report says over 18000 as well.
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Post by FWS on Jun 5, 2011 1:34:11 GMT -6
Steven, I've seen that but I'm not so sure that reflects animals harvested the previous season, in fact I doubt it. And I'd bet there were holdovers from previous years put on the 2009 sale and 2008 sale.
It is for cats since many state harvests number in the hundreds (or less), not thousands as with other furbearers.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 13:00:44 GMT -6
It's gotten bad with the mismanagement of cats in many western states. Utah for instance has some of the absolute best habitat in the world with tons of refugia and they have a 3 cat limit. They do a lot of calesthentics with their biology for what reason I can't determine. Frankly I think any age and sex data with from a management plan with a limit is going to be compromised because of a selective harvest.
A lot of the states don't collect data or when they do it's so minimal that why bother? Frankly I don't know why they pay a biologist if all they are going to do is seat of the pants, pull a rabbit out of a hat management.
It's pretty much freak out when prices are high and try and make it as hard as possible to harvest something.
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Post by FWS on Jun 5, 2011 13:52:33 GMT -6
Joel, just be glad you don't deal with marine fisheries issues.............
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 18:02:24 GMT -6
Oh I'll bet, I remember when it was fashionable to be a marine biologist. Maybe it still is.
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Post by FWS on Jun 5, 2011 18:21:18 GMT -6
That's different than a fisheries biologist. Two different disciplines.
I prefer fisheries biologists making recommendations on marine fisheries management. Kinda like we prefer wildlife biologists making recommendations rather than someone with a degree in biology since they lack the wildlife management emphasis.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 22:34:53 GMT -6
Agreed.
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Post by trappnman on Jun 6, 2011 10:30:03 GMT -6
todays date: June 6th, in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eleven. the unthinkable has happened, and much to my surprize, the clouds didn't open with a deluge, nor did frogs and insects rain down from the sky. my fingers are still trembling however, as I type this, and th wrold as we know it is ending... FWS and Geronomo AGREED  |
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Post by RdFx on Jun 6, 2011 16:01:36 GMT -6
Easy there Steve you dont need a stroke>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<
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Post by C1972 on Jun 6, 2011 17:46:08 GMT -6
todays date: June 6th, in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eleven. the unthinkable has happened, and much to my surprize, the clouds didn't open with a deluge, nor did frogs and insects rain down from the sky. my fingers are still trembling however, as I type this, and th wrold as we know it is ending... FWS and Geronomo AGREED Whoa...... |
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Post by claytoncarr on Jun 6, 2011 18:03:06 GMT -6
todays date: June 6th, in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eleven. FWS and Geronomo AGREED I just puked. Thanks alot Joel for compromising our freedoms. |
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Post by FWS on Jun 6, 2011 18:25:19 GMT -6
Clayton, care to explain how I 'compromise your freedoms' ?
When I've spent a lot of time, effort and money defending them. More than most here.
Joel and I agree quite a lot, but we do like to argue.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 6, 2011 20:29:36 GMT -6
Not true, we love to argue. lol!!
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Post by claytoncarr on Jun 6, 2011 21:14:06 GMT -6
Clayton, care to explain how I 'compromise your freedoms' ? When I've spent a lot of time, effort and money defending them. More than most here. Joel and I agree quite a lot, but we do like to argue. Joel comprimised. Not you!!!! |
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 7, 2011 9:40:28 GMT -6
I stand humbled and ashamed, I will focus and strive to not let it happen again.
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Post by skunkedtrapper on Jun 9, 2011 21:55:02 GMT -6
Bad Dog you need to look at February's top lot of lynx cats half of it came out of Montana. I know, I bar coded them. I also know for a fact that at least one top lot cat for May came from Montana. It's kind of funny, I guess it goes back to what TurTLe said, the same trappers seem to get those top lots. It's all about genetics and locations there of. I have heard that Nevada produces the clearest spots.
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