coyotes concentrating on locations

[trappnman]

we touched o nthis i nthe chat, and its something I think about.

1080 says to look for the concentrations, and make those your setting locations. Areas that attract multiple groups and singulars.

and to stay away from the isolated travel locations, and concentrate on the 4 lane ways that lead to these concentration points.

it makes sense, with a question-

what makes the coyotes concentrate, and share area?

hard times would seem to be the answer- reduced habitat, reduced food sources-

but what happens, if both the above are constant- that the true cover, is still present (woods/ravines/set asides) and that the big interest/food points- are still available throughout the seasons.

and with a darn near 4 month deer and longer small game season, additional non summer food sources pop up randomly and consistently in heaver cover habitat areas.

so I see no need to concentrate and overlap territories- I don't see any advantage gained.

so my question is- do the seasonal concentrations occur because of hardship, or just the nature of the coyote?

the practical aspects of it is that I'm still, it seems, trapping isolated/small groups- and not concentrated areas.

comments?

[thebeav2]

Summer and family groups. And seasonal food sources.

Around here In the winter coyotes have split up and are more pair orientated. But of coarse we just don't have the coyote population that some areas have.

[trappnman]

no other thoughts?

[RdFx]

Well yotes and thier canine instincts want to socialize and all the things that go with it such as running, playing which involves investigating objects and marking thier territories, hunting just like your pet dog. When your dog sees another canine he wants to investigate and depending on the two it can be a fight or hi , lets go play.... yotes cant be much differant so they come together and socialize. Just a thought.

[Rally Hess]

Time of year and human activity in those areas. Such as when planting is in full swing, an area of ag that is normally not busy is now machinery central, or a park that is opened when it has been closed during the winter months, both see too much human activity and move the coyotes around some. When I was trapping SD during the planting periods the coyote moved to traditional pasturtes and avoided ag lands. Airial spraying really spooked the coyotes out of the wheat fields for about two weeks, and pasture and rough ground is where I caught them. When the corn got about knee high they were in heaven and could move about day or night, and shelterbelts during that time was where I caught the coyotes. When the pheasant, ducks, and rabbits were nesting in the grass that is where the coyotes were. Badger really hunted the grass hard when the ducks and pheasant were nesting, and it was common to have a female badger move her young to the grass, dig a quick den, and start hunting the nests.

[trappnman]

but do they concentrate, becasue of their nature, or because of conditions/

and if those conditions don't exist (loss of habitat/food)- do they still concentrate during certain periods of time?

cause I either am not seeing it, or it doesn't happen here.

[thebeav2]

The only concentrations I see around here are the family group during the summer time and then they split up and It's back to singles and maybe a pair but mostly singles. The tracks In the snow tell me that around here.

[blackhammer]

In my area I'm not sure farm activity has much effect on them.The deal is we have so much cover a coyote is never very far from a hiding place.I noticed winter causes concentration in coyotes that are here many times on the south sided cedar bluffs and generally just not as spread out as in the fall.Some areas that have a few coyotes most of the year don.t seem to have a track in them in the winter.I see concentrations occurring because of the weather.And like other animals there are certain areas that year after hold animals and at times it hard to see what makes them different that similar spots that don't hold consistently good numbers.

[Wright Brothers]

Would have liked to see that chat session but could not.

Of the times I took multiple coyotes from one location,
The only common characteristic that I noticed was,
dead animals or calving.

Could not say if they all ran together since no snow and I only got them one or two at a time, but more over the following check nights. And I did have what "I thought" was enough sets to triple or quad them.

Most I have seen together was I think 5 and a feral. Was during deer gun season at a time multple deer tags became available for the first time in Pa. There were lots of deer parts in the woods, and lots of people and bullets sailing at the coyotes.
That instance lead me to a key road crossing that is still used years later.

Who else has comments?

[trappincoyotes39]

you can have concentrations due to many factors food sources, major travel ways that move coyotes along a pinch point, getting away from heavy pressured areas like after a 3 week fire arm deer season, the ones who start to calve first will bring in a high number of coyotes as well. Deep snows will also concentrate them along travel ways.

[Rally Hess]

Steve,
In my mind it would be conditions. Coyotes will definately have higher densities in areas they are not harrassed(ref. Chicago coyote study)than in an area where they are constantly trapped or hunted, which can often be only seasonal, and would push them into higher concentrations in nearby cover (large tracts of unhunted/trapped private ground). Ever notice how many big deer you see a couple weeks after season is over?
I don't buy there are areas coyotes will concentrate in numbers greater than the area can support unless they are pushed there through farming, logging, hunting, or human activity they are not acustomed to.
A pinch point in a travel route, like TC mentioned , I believe is misunderstood by alot of people. The number of coyotes/predators that pass through an area/pinch point, is different than the areas holding capacity. I can think of several areas now that I can catch otter, beaver or fox/coyote at, that are just travelways, connecting large flowages or land masses that they only travel through and don't stay in. All these areas would have more activity during the dispersal of the above listed animals, but actual inhabitants are quite low. I can "concentrate" the predators in the travelways by adding 20 beaver carcasses at peak snaring conditions, and logging activity at the areas can also greatly reduce the use of these areas. Freeze up also can change these travel routes as the rivers tend to be easier travelways after freeze up.

[TurTLe]

I've seen areas of concentrations in Arizona, but nothing like that here.

The one that sticks out in my mind the most is from when I was in my teens and the old man teaching me how to trap stumbled across what he called "A Play Area."

We were tracking a coyote on a drag that went out across a plowed melon field. We came across an area that was literally flattened with coyote tracks, and areas they were rolling, and everything else. It was just out in the middle of the field, with no features that would seem to draw the coyotes to the place.

He told me these were areas that multiple territories overlapped, and were great places to set if you could find them. So he put in 4 sets and caught 14 coyotes over the next week.

I never really gave it much thought then, being new to trapping, so I really didn't have anything to go on other than his word. Since then I've wondered if that area was just that HOT because it was a melon field, where coyotes would congregate anyhow, for easy pickens. Seeing as how the meals came easy, the coyotes were probably more tolerant of others on their turf. So fat and happy they had a "play area" to run around and play grab ass.

Just random thoughts. I've never stumbled across an area like that here, and have never had one location produce coyotes into the teens within a week like that spot did.

That old man was from the old school. He used longsprings, no dirtholes, and used urine so sparingly at a set, it's hard to believe a coyote could even find it, but year after year he'd catch hundreds of coyotes. I really wish I would of paid more attention to what he was trying to teach me, instead of chasing tail at school.

[trappincoyotes39]

turtle those areas exist, the numbers might be different due to factors, but there are areas that will concintrait more coyotes through a given area than secondary locations, a good map can show them without having to leave your house, then go out and look for sign and locate those coyotes to see that the map is telling you what you think it should, many times it will.

Barriors are just that for the majority of fox and coyotes "BARRIORS". None will be 100% but will "drift" the majority through an area. Honey holes are for a reason, travel or food alot of times. If they are located next to a long running barrior Walla Honey Hole.

Like "spokes on a wheel" a phrase I'm borrowing you can either set all 6,8,10 spokes or set where they all meet.

[TurTLe]

I remember reading an article by Al Perry talking about "spokes on a wheel". The article was about gray fox. Sure miss his writing. You never hear anyone mention him when they talk about the great old timers. A nicer man I've never met. Wonder what ever happened to his trapping museum?

[RdFx]

TurTle is Al the fellow with museum in I believe New Mexico or state near there. Im not sure but if same fellow i met him years ago and he showed me drags he made out of cotton picker stainless parts.

[trappnman]

interesting that you mentioned spokes on a wheel- I use the same term myself. And I tend to sent on the spokes rather than the hub. I've been trying to set the hub, and think I do, but my success rates seem to be no better either way. I've take 16 off of a "farm" over 3-4 weeks, but in my run and gun this year, took no more than 7 off a farm in 5-6 checks- with most farms being 2-3, or nothing. and nothing is where I'm setting on unused spokes, or as 1080 says, hope and pray sets.

I detest saying "can't do it" if it can be done- but for the life of me, I either can't find the true hubs and the related stall out areas, or they are few and far between in my country.

pretty much every farm I trap, has a point of interest being manure piles, dead piles, rock/brush areas- and I see tracks and sign constantly throughout the summer/early fall on just about all of them. overlap for sure on neighboring farms.

so when trapping comes, assuming harvest is well underway, I try to set up the most opportune areas, looking for those concentrations of family groups. I have found a few, but not many.

our collaring showed so many of our coyotes homebodies, throughout the seasons, more times than not being found on the capture farm or very close by. Very little long distance travel- with exceptions of course- like the little female that was captured in Oct, and stayed on that farm for a couple of months, then traveled 19 miles in one night, and killed by a car. would have been interesting to see how far she would have went.

thus my questions about concentrations, as to whether they do so only out of need, or by nature in certain seasons.

[Rally Hess]

What time of year were your coyote studies Steve?
Reason I ask is, from your description of your setting period, the harvets is well underway. Could it be your catching coyotes that are filtering back into the areas your trapping, whom have been dispersed by the harvest, and then filtering back in? I'm guessing here, but wouldn't you be using the same roads, approaches and fields that were just harvested, or setting access lanes to stay out of the way of machinery? Are your catch rates higher near the large areas of rough ground that time of year?

[Hornhunter]

And the icing on the Cake,for the finished set !!!

1080? What do feed your friend. Raw wild meat parts, or dog food.

The only concentrations i'll see from trapping in the woods and along woods roads will be from a bait pile in winter. The best is when a a couple of moose go down in an areas and the coyotes have hung around feeding back and forth. This seems to draw them for miles around.

[17HMR]

The highest concentration of coyotes I ever seen was about a year after a hog confinement went in in the sandhills, had a buddy snareing it and he took and amazing amount of coyotes off of 2 sections over 3 months. Must have drew them in for 50 miles.

[trappnman]

trouble is, the hog operations around here, haul away all dead pigs.

last one I had with a dead pile, it produced good several years after there was nothing left of the dead pile but a few bleached bones.

I beleive there is just too much available food/cover around here to get concentrations, if concentrations are caused JUST by need (I was kinda thinking 1080 with all his knowledge, might answer if they concentrate out of need, or nature, but alas)- even dead deer, usually sit for weeks before they are worked.

the three locations where I consistently catch the most coyotes, year after year (two were collaring locations) are major travel routes between location points with stall out sign present.

their common features- long connection routes in multiple directions, rolling hills with high points and OPEN.

I am thinking my increased catch this year, was more from running short check loops, and more locations, than anything.