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Post by FWS on Apr 25, 2007 21:20:20 GMT -6
If you were going to put together a rifle specifically dedicated to harvesting fur what would it be ? For my needs it would be a bolt action .17 centerfire, .17 Rem. or .17 Rem. Fireball (MachIV). Blueprinted Rem. 700 action. Jewell trigger. Lapour 3 position safety 22" stainless steel barrel in a #3 contour by Lilja.McMillan fiberglass stock, probably their 'Hunter pattern.And a Schmidt & Bender 1.5–6 x 42 scope. I could put that together for about $3,000. ;D
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Post by edge on Apr 25, 2007 21:43:39 GMT -6
A selective semi-auto 12 ga under a 22-250 with banana clips in full curl.
But if youre buying,I'd settle for a new scope for my 243 that *doesnt* sound like a Maraca.
.........Horses.........
Edge
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Post by FWS on Apr 25, 2007 22:01:19 GMT -6
The Schmidt & Benders will take severe use and still work, the why the USMC picked em' for their sniper scopes. They literally took a scope off a rifle, pounded tent stakes with it, put it back on the rifle and it still maintained it's zero. ;D Problem is they cost about $1800 for the cheap one.
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Post by edge on Apr 25, 2007 22:29:59 GMT -6
**Problem is they cost about $1800 for the cheap one.**
You're right,thats a problem.I think the stable trash that watusied all over my scope was only $500.............you need any horsehide?That horse has no idea how close I was to walking out with the saddle..........
Edge
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Post by lb on Apr 25, 2007 23:34:58 GMT -6
Seventeens get all the attention, I suppose? Why go against the grain, right?
Well, a seventeen centerfire can cause a lot of damage with a bad hit on a moving animal.
A seventeen can and will frag on minor brush. Brush that you can't see in the scope but that doesn't stop a .224" centerfire.
A seventeen can't anchor an animal that is way out there....every time.
In short, it depends on the type of hunting you do and where you do it.
Inevitably, somebody will be taking exception to the above, and it's true that you can have a failure with almost any popular high velocity chambering.
But, a good twenty-two centerfire with the right type of bullet will see less failures than a comparable seventeen caliber.
So, take a fur hunter like Quinton, kills over a hundred coyotes every year with a 220Swift. I suppose he would rather deal with an exit hole than lose an animal. You need to pick a non destructive bullet that flattens a coyote
For the disciplined hunter that hunts close cover, a 218 Bee could be everything he ever needs? I assume, when the question is "fur" you would like to take fox and bobcat, as well? Unlike a seventeen, a Hornet or the 218Bee is not going to blow a big hole in a small, lightly constructed (but valuable) animal.
Lots of choices, lots of applications, some are better than others, but this is not a slam dunk question.
You do not need an $1800 scope on a fur gun.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by SteveCraig on Apr 26, 2007 7:58:49 GMT -6
Gotta go with Leonard on this one boys. I have a 17 Rem and i have seen the bullet not make it through the brush around here. I used a 22 Hornet for many years, untill the last few clients came out here with their 221 Fireballs. This is a GREAT fur round . Works on fox, cats and coyotes out to a couple hundred yards, and dont tear them up either. Steve
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Post by FWS on Apr 26, 2007 9:56:31 GMT -6
Well boys that's why said for my needs. I shoot cats in the brush and the range rarely exceeds 200 yards and no caliber has been as efficient as my .17 Remington. Pinprick entrance and no exit wound.
I still use my .222 Rem. and will play with it more in the future as I experiment with lead free projectiles.
I've used 22 centerfires a lot and on cats they generally exit, the .17 generally does not.
As per scopes, my Leupold 3.5-10 has worked well, but compared to a Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Nightforce or Zeiss there really is a night and day difference. Particulary shooting in twilight or at night.
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Post by lb on Apr 26, 2007 10:18:39 GMT -6
Schmidt and Bender is one of several high end European scopes that have awesome optics suitable for night hunting. I use a Kahles 3X12X56 at night. 1.5–6 x 42 is a power range particularly suitable for daylights, in my type of application.
Actually, I gave up on a one size fits all attitude many years ago. Now, it's a bag of golf clubs. You don't use a #3 wood, when a 7 iron has the loft and will put you on the green with a little backspin.
Interesting to talk about, though.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by edge on Apr 26, 2007 21:36:44 GMT -6
**Now, it's a bag of golf clubs.**
When I golfed,which was for about 2 years,a 7 iron was all I had,I got good with it;applicable theory to gunning.
I have several guns and like them all,but I have extreme supreme confidence in my Mod 77 in 243.
I do have a multi-gun pet peeve tho.....those that pack several rifles and it takes Buddhist concentration for them to "pick" while exiting the vehicle.
Edge
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Post by lb on Apr 27, 2007 8:59:37 GMT -6
"I do have a multi-gun pet peeve tho".....Edge. Where did you learn to use Democrat type arguments so ineffectively. lol
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Post by edge on Apr 27, 2007 17:43:38 GMT -6
**Where did you learn to use Democrat type arguments so ineffectively.**
Seattle
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Post by lb on Apr 28, 2007 10:29:06 GMT -6
Seattle? Now there's a disagreeable place. I'd sooner pick life in prison, anywhere else, than to spend one winter in Suicideville.
Back to fur rifles. This requires a little homework. Velocity, bullets and even your rifling twist can make all the difference. There are shortcuts, but you need to kill a few on your own to evaluate performance. LB
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Post by monstertom on Apr 28, 2007 14:34:55 GMT -6
I own and have killed coyotes with everything from the mach 4 to a 30-338 the perfect fur gun is like the perfect elk gun. It's what you shoot well and are comfortable with.Some fur is better than no fur. on dry ground for western coyotes.fox and cats I prefer my 222rem but north Colorado southern Wyo. wooly dogs I shoot a 6x47. 70 grn. anchors those big winter dogs just fine. I don't like chasing them in the deep snow.
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Post by edge on Apr 28, 2007 20:00:01 GMT -6
**Seattle? Now there's a disagreeable place.**
It was a joke.I have no interst in the Pacific Northwest.Too wet.Remember that I moved here from the "Land of Eternal Wet Feet".
Im no handloader but in my Rugers,the Fedal Premiuum stuff shoots nice and kills quick.Now that Rich turned me on to deer bullets for coyotes,I can have any sewing done in jig time;no more quest for pea shooters here.Besides,our winds are not pea shooter friendly.
Edge
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Apr 28, 2007 20:49:37 GMT -6
If fox or bobcat were on my list of target animals I would likely go with a .223 and 55 grain Sierra Game King bullets. Since I only target coyotes, a .243, .257 Ackley or .25-06 with bullets designed for deer hunting will be my rig of choice. I like to top my coyote rifles with good 3x-9x scopes.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Apr 29, 2007 18:41:02 GMT -6
I put my 22-250 in the safe in favor of my .17.
Interesting mention of deer bullets. I've shot a few coyotes with my .300 win mag and the exit hole is usually smaller than the 250. Just goes through and doubt it even mushrooms.
Joel
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Post by 17HMR on Apr 29, 2007 20:09:43 GMT -6
Richc, tell me more about your .243 deer bullets and coyotes, I have had some big messes with some 80 grain bullets.
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Post by edge on Apr 29, 2007 20:44:12 GMT -6
I'm not Rich C,but I'd play him on TV if he asked.....
In a nutshell,I get fewer chasm type exits with deer bullets.Any real blowouts with the 243 would havev also been blowouts with the 22-250;ie,surface splash and shoulder hits.
Even going to the psp in 22 has helped a lot,but since I have extended my shooting area to 600 yds,the 243 is really putting my beloved 22-250 to shame.
Edge
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Post by blakcoyote on Apr 29, 2007 22:42:53 GMT -6
I use the .243 Fedral V-Shok in 100gr sierra BTSP.Exit holes are usually dime size-to nickel size.But like Edge mentions,those splash hits like the top of the spine makes a big mess.
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richc
Demoman...
Posts: 243
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Post by richc on Apr 30, 2007 8:57:47 GMT -6
17HMR, The big messes you experienced with 80 grain bullets and the .243 were likely caused by the bullet rather than the caliber. I have been really close to giving up on giving advise concerning this subject because most folks just plain don't get it. Here it is again, one more time just for you. There are basically two three types of bullets that are readily available. There are the "varmint" bullets that your 80 grainers probably were. These bullets are very thin skinned, and designed to disintegrate on small critters like gophers and such. When these bullets are used on coyote sized critters, they often blowup on the surface. If these bullets do make an exit, said exit is usually very ugly. Football sized exit wounds with varmint bullets out of a .243 or .25-06 are common. There are the "match" bullets which are also thin skinned, but are designed for accuracy. These bullets sometimes stay together on coyotes, but are not reliable in terminal results on fur. Now we have the "hunting" grade bullets that are more strongly constructed. It is the bullet of choice when hunting coyotes if you wish to save fur. Now let us take the Sierra line of bullets for instance. I shoot quarter bore more often than 6mm, so I will mention the 90 grainers here. If you want a coyote bullet for your .25-06 and plan to shoot coyotes, please remember that Sierra offers a 90 grain "varminter" and a 90 grain "Gameking". The Gameking is the one you want for coyotes if you plan to save fur. In my .243, I plan to try Speer 85 grain boat tail spitzers this year. I think it is Speer's #1213 bullet, but I will check the Speer site to be certain. This bullet is designed for deer hunting, so should be just fine on coyotes. Now if your bullet strikes one of the larger bones, you are likely to see a rather ugly hole with most any bullet. On broadside shots through the ribs, the exit wounds usually won't be large enough to make an honest fur buyer even squint his eye.
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