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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2011 9:30:43 GMT -6
No I don't Tman, what I'm saying is that reciprocity works well in a perfect world where things are somewhat equal.
For instance most states restrict hunting rights for their most precious species. If not, the hunters in the state of California would get a disproportionate number of elk, moose, and sheep tags issued in the Rocky Mountain states just because of their sheer numbers.
What I'm saying is that I live in the middle of a bunch of states that have had their cat trapping so severely restricted that it would create some big problems for us if they had carte blanche access here.
I'll give you two examples of real life instances to back up my position.
In Nevada we have an excellent management system on cats. We gather all the lower jaws and age/sex them to determine the recruitment and explotation of the population. We keep a tight rein on the data. Consequently we enjoy a liberal season because we have biologists that do a good job.
1-Several times in the recent past Utah residents have been caught trying to "launder" their Utah cats into Nevada because it is easier to bring a fifty or hundred or so over and tag them one time in Nevada than it is to find enough cousins and uncles to buy Utah trapping licenses to tag their cats three at a time.
This is a fact, not just some perceived problem I've dreamed up. If they are trying it now, what would happen if we just opened the door for them. I'm guessing that if we opened it our harvest would increase dramatically on paper just from "laundered" cats. What that would do would be twofold, one the harvest would look like it spiked from the long term averages and two the composition of the data would be compromised.
2- The second point is that I watched what happened to Arizona back in the 70's when snowbird trapping was the rage. Look where they are now.
The public doesn't get the same exposure and angst about trapping $12 coons on private ground as they do about $1200 cats.
It's apples and oranges. The problems with western cat trapping are different than what you are used to.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2011 8:47:48 GMT -6
So? They are still restrictions for NR's. What is the difference between NM having a 5 cat NR limit and Utah having a 3 cat NR limit?
Seems to me that NM would still be offering more to a NR than Utah, am I wrong?
Same with the cage states, so what, if the restriction is for both R's and NR's? It's still a restriction to a NR in a non cage state.
Reciprocity is a nice concept but unless there is some equity in the situation is doesn't work well.
True reciprocity would be for me to be able to go to Utah and catch unlimited cats and Utah guys to come here and catch 3.
Or that I can go to California with traps and they can come here with cages.
I hate it but it's the way it is.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 20, 2011 6:55:52 GMT -6
Well let me ask you this. Much is being made of the 5 cat limit being proposed for NR's in New Mexico.
Utah has a 3 cat limit for non residents, same in E. Oregon, should they be subject to the same criticism as New Mexico?
California, Colorado, Arizona, and Washington are cages only for Non residents.
So I'm surrounded by states that are so restrictive that there is no reason for me to go there and every reason for them to come here.
I wish it wasn't that way but I'm afraid that until/unless they get it right where they come from well....
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 19, 2011 23:33:13 GMT -6
Turtle the only fair way to do it would for me to come to your state with my regs and you come to mine with yours.
That'll never happen though. The inequity sucks but it is what it is.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 19, 2011 15:17:35 GMT -6
The problem is the inequity between states. I'd be fine with Utah, Oregon, California, Arizona, Washington, and Colorado coming over here if the laws in their states were at least close to ours.
Problem is we've got it good, they've got it bad, and that isn't a good hand for us to draw to.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 13, 2011 8:38:25 GMT -6
In my experience fencing and coyotes don't go together all that well. A baseball sized stone isn't something I would consider subtle either, that would be like putting a basketball there for someone your size.
If you are seeing a couple of tracks that miss the pan I'd question the effectiveness of your lure.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 2, 2011 19:44:15 GMT -6
Good luck to you out there but you can have the trees. I like to see for miles.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 20, 2011 13:29:34 GMT -6
Trying to fence coyotes will do more harm than good in my opinion. If you have something that is already there it's better than putting something there generally. Quit thinking like a cat trapper.
I don't like backing traps off like you describe either, I like to set up tight to the backing.
If you are using something they like they'll usually put their feet down plenty. Make sure the trap is bedded rock solid so they don't feel loose dirt around it.
If you have anthill gravel around sift it all around your backing, really nice camo for flat sets. Also don't use a high backing, something anywhere from a couple inches to about maybe 8 inches high.
If you have access to a big bait or a big skull or something like that put it out in a open area and set out away from it with subtle stuff like urine, droppings or coyote water.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 13, 2011 13:52:23 GMT -6
I've tried the stuff off and on over the years and I agree, what a pain in the asss. I've got some of O'Gorman's super duper screen around here, if you come into Reno you can have it.
Thirsty we approved your scholarship application Saturday. Rendevous is at Beaver Dam state park in Lincoln County late August if you want to swing over.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 13, 2011 7:09:06 GMT -6
In Nevada, there are some places that "generally" produce a good cat and vice versa but you can get an outstanding one anywhere.
Some areas have a fairly predictable back and others are all over the board, some areas have a fairly preictable size range others all over the board.
You can catch a thousand dollar cat in a set and walk up the trail and have one that is crap.
There are several colors, blue, black, yellow, red, brown, light and dark and everything in between.
Females rarely are as good as toms although you can get some good ones.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 7, 2011 9:40:28 GMT -6
I stand humbled and ashamed, I will focus and strive to not let it happen again.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 6, 2011 20:29:36 GMT -6
Not true, we love to argue. lol!!
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 22:34:53 GMT -6
Agreed.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 18:02:24 GMT -6
Oh I'll bet, I remember when it was fashionable to be a marine biologist. Maybe it still is.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jun 5, 2011 13:00:44 GMT -6
It's gotten bad with the mismanagement of cats in many western states. Utah for instance has some of the absolute best habitat in the world with tons of refugia and they have a 3 cat limit. They do a lot of calesthentics with their biology for what reason I can't determine. Frankly I think any age and sex data with from a management plan with a limit is going to be compromised because of a selective harvest.
A lot of the states don't collect data or when they do it's so minimal that why bother? Frankly I don't know why they pay a biologist if all they are going to do is seat of the pants, pull a rabbit out of a hat management.
It's pretty much freak out when prices are high and try and make it as hard as possible to harvest something.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 23, 2011 9:12:01 GMT -6
Man I've wanted something like that for sawing out Juniper limbs.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 19, 2011 22:31:31 GMT -6
Turn the cats loose, that's some of the best country in the state.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 19, 2011 8:33:12 GMT -6
That is one area that I haven't spent that much time in. I'd do like Sullivan said and trap around the water and fields. I haven't screwed around with coyotes much inthe summer.
You ought to get a hold of Bill Ilchik, he trapped down there for a study like yours 30 years ago when they were proposing the MX missile. A nice couple from the Smithsonian were doing the study. You might want to read it, I don't know whether they ever found anything out or not.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 14, 2011 13:41:10 GMT -6
You listen to John, he knows what he's talking about. You need some help, give me a call I might wander down. What town are you basing out of? Tonopah, Round Mtn., Austin?
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on May 10, 2011 8:39:32 GMT -6
John I agree with you on the "lincoln log" setup. I've seen too many cats come up to something like that and turn around or jump.
I've gone to using one stepping stick rather than two stopping sticks, haven't seen a refusal yet.
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