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Post by SteveCraig on Feb 13, 2007 16:41:13 GMT -6
Steve, Misting works VERY,VERY good! I too tried the gland lure mix, and it is too much of a hassel plugging up the mister. I dont mist much any more do to using an electronic caller with the speaker away from my location. I simply dont need it. But if using a hand call, I would not hesitate dragging out my bottle of pee. Years ago, I used to squirt fox and rabbit pee all around my calling stand before starting to call for Foxes in Indiana. Did it help? I think so. I know it didnt hurt. Steve
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Post by trappnman on Feb 13, 2007 16:42:22 GMT -6
interesting discussion- thanks lb...
trappers often wonder about how far a coyote can smell things.
onre thing that I enjoyed in the calling videos, was seeing coyote reactions to hunan scent trails, at various times after they are made. A coyote hits one fresh, and he can't begin to get out of there fast enough- head over teakettle...
yes an older trail, is noticed but ignored.
Urine is a subtle scent. If you can see its "reflection" at a hundred yards or so on a good night- think how far the actual ODOR travels....
I'm in full agreement on scent ribbons...
You've given me something to ponder...thanks!
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Post by blakcoyote on Feb 14, 2007 1:02:35 GMT -6
Sure, they smell human and everything associated, but they also detect the two things they heard, coyote howls and rabbit distress. And now, as they get downwind, they smell coyote and rabbit. This is enough to cause them to stand around when they know that they should be escaping, but they can't seem to help themselves.... I almost died laughing when I read that.Not because it was funny,but because you normally don't see so much common sense in a paragraph.
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joe
Skinner...
Posts: 67
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Post by joe on Feb 14, 2007 8:05:34 GMT -6
LB you mentioned 2 companies that are putting a product out for misting. Do you know when, and where to look for it? If it works as good as a self made version? Lord knows, it would be easier to buy then to gather rabbit pee, but maybe not as fun. I am willing to try it. I need all the help I can get.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 14, 2007 8:33:40 GMT -6
I see we posted at the same time, so didn't see your post Steve.
What you need to do with the gland lure, is what I sometmes do before I pull traps. One last effort so to speak. I got over the clogging problems by taking a big bottle, puttle in some glands or gland lure, then pouring urine in. stir up once, then let settle. You can then strain this off, getting the liquid with the gland smell added, and no sentiment.
Most times I don't strain, put instead just carefully pour off the liquid without disturbing the sentiment and then use the crud down a hole.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 14, 2007 9:30:38 GMT -6
I've been thinking more and more on this- I think that I'm going to link this thread to the main trapping forum-
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Post by SteveCraig on Feb 14, 2007 11:57:41 GMT -6
I think it needs to be in the calling Archives too!
Leonard, Have Higgins come over here for a few words. I know he can add much to this discussion. Steve
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Post by trappnman on Feb 14, 2007 12:07:24 GMT -6
I agree Steve-
once I get all traps/snares pulled, and have more time, I'l lget all the archives up to date.
What makes this interesting to me, is that it doevctals quite nicely with te age old issue of misting a set.
I KNOW that misting aremake is worth it- I've experimented that to thep oint I'm convinced- and I don't make remakes without misting .
But on fresh sets- I'm still torn.
I've done a little misting at a fresh set, and while its no detrement, how much of a help it is, I'm undecided on.
What also interests me- is how far this scent ribbon goes- and thats just based on lbs visual observations in moonlight. One knows that the scent itself- goes further.
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Post by SteveCraig on Feb 14, 2007 12:20:40 GMT -6
You get a day with a 15 mph wind and you will be quite surprised at how far that mist will carry, AND what happens in high winds with it.
Yea, I know how far they can smell the odor too.
You want to have some fun sometime, just go through the motions of the stand and if you dont call anything in, just sneak off, find a ridge to set on and watch what happens after about 20 minutes or so. It is amazing how many times a coyote will come sneaking in to see what you were doing there! I have even seen them come to the spot I was setting on and sniff around.
This is when you realy start to learn about coyote behavior.... ..or our lack of it, whatever the case may be! ;D
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Post by lb on Feb 14, 2007 12:37:58 GMT -6
This cloud of mist is easily observable (at night) under the hunting light, way past 100 yards. It doesn't fly off into the wild blue yonder, or spread out very much. Basically, it rolls along, probably two to six feet off the ground, bumping into any and everything in it's path. If it floats between two trees, you can predict exactly when a coyote will stop for you...not ten feet from the tree or ten feet past it, but directly between those trees. I have lost enough coyotes downwind to know when they are affected by the mist and when they are affected by the scent of human. It may not seem strong enough, by cold weather standards, where you would be forced to use a loud lure, but this stuff is fresh, and moist. If you want to see how it works, have another human downwind, and see how long your volunteer hangs in the stream. Humans can definitely smell it and coyotes have a far greater ability, so figure it out.
All you have to do is ask yourself if you think it is worth the effort, but the question of whether or not it works has been decided long ago.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 14, 2007 12:56:37 GMT -6
a footnote so to speak- look how far we can smell stuff. Distant forset fires for example.
and yesterday, was checking some snares, and remarked to Lori what was that odd smell.... smelled like something cooking.
on the way home- we passed a creamery- a good 7-8 miles from where we could smell the odor- several valleys and flats away...
I wondered at the time- how far away from the source could a yote smell it?
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Post by cdog911 on Feb 14, 2007 17:14:49 GMT -6
Steve, In Leonard's defense (not that he needs it), I've been asked on several occasions to do a brief talk on misting as part of a calling demo. I especially like it when the talk is outdoors where I can set up my program with the wind at my back. What I do is at the beginning of the discussion, I'll take a small dixie-type cup and spray five pumps worth of urine solution into it and set it on the table. For that matter, you could spray that urine on the table's surface. After a few seconds, I'll ask those watching how many can smell the urine. few, if any, raise their hand. At or near the end of the talk, I'll spray five pumps worth of pee into the air about head high. I don't really have to ask if anyone can smell it now because their reaction tells me all I need to know. Usually, it starts with loud gasping followed immediately by men pulling their glasses off, foot stomping, wretching and gagging, raspy coughs and inspired expletives. And that's the guys fifty feet away that weren't paying attention. (I usually warn the guys that are actually in the soon to be hot zone ) By aerasolizing the urine solution using s spray bottle, you magnify the intensity of the odor by a factor of about a thousand. The ammonia and coyote smell will literally rip the air right out of your lungs. And that's to my nose. Imagine what it's like to a coyote. I've demo'd this on hunts and had guys rubbing their eyes a hundred yards downwind of me. It's that intense. I've used it for some time, on and off, since Leonard and Rich first taught me the technique and have seen it work with my own two eyes. Combined with howling, it makes an unfriendly wind direction less of a problem. Not fail safe, but less of a problem. I should say that I have no idea what the coyotesa are thinking when they smell it, and don't care (Apparantly that will be of concern to someone. ), but the results speak for themselves. Having said that, you definitely learn to watch for back eddies and swirling breezes. On an aside, I convinced a couple guys to try this technique during the pre-rut and rut last year. Their results were mixed. On one hand, both said they had randy bucks charge in from well over a hundred yards as soon as they crossed the scent plume and were extremely impressed. On the other, the bucks were looking straight on and didn't offer a good shot opportunity for an archery hunter.
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Post by Wiley on Feb 15, 2007 7:13:07 GMT -6
Lance,
I'll bet your seminar students are really impressed being hosed with coyote urine.
Original Question: "Does it help to use cover scents while calling?"
No!
Leonard's mist is used as a means to stop coyotes for a shot particularly with night calling. That's an entirely different concept than trying to cover your scent.
Consider that drug dogs have found cocaine in cargo loads of fish.
Consider that bird dogs can point a bird after receiving a load of skunk in the face.
Consider that bird dogs can point a bird with a bird in their mouth.
Consider that blood hounds, under the right conditions, can track an individual man on a 2 week old scent down a busy city street.
Consider that bloodhounds track a man where his scent settled in the snow as opposed to where he actually walked in the snow and left tracks.
Consider that a coyote knows the difference between where you just walked and where you are sitting now. I've watched them smell the track I left approaching my calling stand and keep coming only to whirl and run when getting directly down wind.
You can't fool a coyote where you have been or where you are at with cover scents. That's why you keep the wind in your advantage.
I'm sure in certain areas of human disturbance or abundant cover (brush, sage, trees, etc.) you will find coyotes that associate human odor with danger under certain circumstances and not in other circumstances (campgrounds where scraps are left). In most places where coyotes are persecuted 24/7, you will not find any value in a cover scent. Don't know any serious coyote hunter that uses them and sees a noticeable difference.
~SH~
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Post by fishhead on Feb 15, 2007 8:50:20 GMT -6
Where can someone buy coyote-rabbit urine? I seen something advertised in Predator Xtreme, I think it was called Predator bomb? A scent fogger. I believe it's available in fox, coyote and fawn.
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Post by ToddMiller on Feb 15, 2007 8:53:21 GMT -6
I agree with Wiley on this 100 %. You simply are not going to fool a canines nose by trying to cover your scent with cover scents or misting. A coyote can smell your carcass period. I don't care if you take a pee shower, a coyote will smell you in a millisecond. The same goes with all the scent free clothing. Use the wind and your setups to your advantage. You are not going to fool a Coyotes nose. Scott congrats on your placing in the Midwest.
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 9:25:28 GMT -6
Toddmiller, I agree with everything you wrote, except this:.......
"You simply are not going to fool a canines nose by trying to cover your scent with cover scents or misting."
If the purpose is to "COVER" your scent, I agree.
If the purpose is to "fool a canines nose" I strongly disagree.
Here again, it is (admittedly) difficult to explain what I do with misting, how I do it and why I do it; but to wade in here and say it cannot be done, you are being intellectually dishonest, sir.
Good hunting. LB
edit: as far as, where you can buy the prepared urine mist, I wouldn't tell you if I knew. That predator "bomb" is a joke because it works like a bug bomb, once you press the lever, it keeps spraying until the contents are gone, so you would need a dozen per day, which is rediculous and demonstrates that the manufacturer doesn't quite grasp the concept, since a pint of mist should last a hunter all day, or all night. LB
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Post by ToddMiller on Feb 15, 2007 9:53:31 GMT -6
Leonard, I'm not wading in on your parade here at all. I said COVER SCENT! Putting out urine, skunk essence, what ever to COVER your scent won't work period. If you are trying to momentarily slow a coyote or stop a coyote using scent, I'll buy that. But don't try to sell me that you are fooling a coyotes nose with it.
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 10:26:54 GMT -6
Well, maybe we are splitting hairs, here?
I will agree that a coyote can distinguish human scent from urine mist. Now, we are talking about "fooling" which I can define as a coyote doing something that is unnatural and not in his best interest for self preservation. In that aspect, you are incorrect. A coyote is "fooled" by misting well enough that he alters his behavior and it leads to his undoing. Fits my definition of fooling as near as it needs to be.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by ToddMiller on Feb 15, 2007 10:41:05 GMT -6
Descibe "unnatural behavior". A coyote does what he does. Now a coyote driving a car, yep that's unnatural. A coyote sniffing the wind or pausing to get a better whiff, unnatural? I guess we'll agree to disagree. LOL Your talking about attracting or stopping a coyote with a scent. I'm talking about trying to cover human scent to FOOL a coyotes nose.
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Post by fishhead on Feb 15, 2007 10:45:07 GMT -6
I don't know that the words fooling or tricking the coyote really fits. ;)The word confuse would be a better term in my opinion.
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