Response to BMP

[sinrud]

After receiving updated info from the IAFWA/BMP we sent the following letter of thanks.

Ms. M. C. Brambery, In-House Counsel
Gordon Batcheller, BMP Chair
Don MacGlaughlan, IAFWA Staff

Thank you for your recent letter. The information supplied is very encouraging to trappers and related industries and we look forward to continuing an open communication with the BMP program in the future.

We also noted the BMP has addressed the issue of defining “Relaxing Locks”. This issue has been problematic within the industry as several states call for various functional expectations. The BMP definition is very appropriate and we are positive this will be well accepted by trappers and manufacturers alike.

At this time we are asking for information related to the BMP Trapper Education Manual which has been distributed to most states. Has this language been updated to more appropriately describe cable types in reference to “cable restraint” systems and terminology of snares? If so please advise us on this issue. If not, please explain why. Without appropriate education there remains confusion of selective equipment.

Open communications are the only way to prevent future problems between the Wildlife Management Programs and the Trapping Community which are the life blood of Wildlife Management.

Raymond Thompson Company, Thompson Snares has spent considerable effort and time creating, designing and developing new equipment and techniques to improve snaring methods for humane trapping in compliance to methodology recommended by various agencies and will continue to do so. Without advisement we can not do so. Open communication and advisement of potential or pending publications is a necessary process to continue these efforts.

We would also like to encourage the BMP to include the F.T.A. in this process. The F.T.A. is not opposed to the BMP, but rather being excluded from involvement within the process and access to information. We encourage this for the following reason(s).

The F.T.A. has a vast amount of input and information from trappers. These trappers are the experts on trapping methods and equipment. Their experience is the most valuable tool available for effective control in Game Management. Advise and input from the F.T.A. comes from these sources and without this input and experience inappropriate recommendations and regulations will continue.

Before pending publications are “set in stone” these entities should be given the opportunity to evaluate and make suggestions or recommendations to order to prevent future complications regarding proper and equitable methods.

Finally, we encourage the BMP to communicate with all manufacturers and snare makers since they are the experts on design of equipment. Without this inclusion a great opportunity is missed.

While there are many such entities some of these are simply trappers who have designed snares based on their personal experience in small areas they have trapped in. Based on their experience they began producing snares which work well for them in an area and market their equipment. While this equipment may work well for them and their method, other trappers in other areas prefer and require different methods and equipment. Accepting recommendations from such snare makers selectively is like the Federal Government to require auto manufacturers to produce cars with bullet proof windows and doors based on a small selection of incidences in a specific environment.

Such open communications will go a long way in creating trust and cooperation between the BMP ad the trapping community.

We look forward to your reply and continued communication in this matter.
Thompson Snares

[trappincoyotes39]

We would also like to encourage the BMP to include the F.T.A. in this process. The F.T.A. is not opposed to the BMP, but rather being excluded from involvement within the process and access to information. We encourage this for the following reason(s).

What? You don't think some of their positions is not anti BMP? Nor that a large % of their base is not anti BMP from what has been written by the FTA? Who walked away? You stood and kept open dialog going what turned out better and for who?
They are also mentioned in much of the BMP material and are the ones who thought that there name should not be used! They have been given credit for what there org does and mentioned to all new trappers which could do nothing but add members!

If they trully want to add to the BMP's I'm sure the BMP committe would have no problem!


Ultimately, it is the belief of the FTA that the BMP process is likely to bring about a compromise of the harvest of animals, and a reduction in the efficacy of trapping as a wildlife management tool.

[sinrud]

I think some people need to do some reading and research on what is REALITY!
Sinrud

[trappincoyotes39]

I think some need to remove their heads from the clouds, the statement at the end of my posting was word for word from the FTA!!!! Not made up or added too. They did a good job with words but still get their belief out. That is all opinion,not facts Read their letter and show me what portion of their criticism is based on facts!

[trappnman]

yes, and that statement from the FTA is absolute truth.

I support it 100%.

Get your head out of the clouds on this.

better then the wishy washy stance of the NTA- and their "experts"..... bahahahahhaa

[trappincoyotes39]

yes, and that statement from the FTA is absolute truth.

Proove it!

a reduction in the efficacy of trapping as a wildlife management tool.

If you want a true definition of this ask people from CO,AZ,Mass and CA and the state of washington!

[trappnman]

prove what?

you think that if anyone makes any negative comment about the bmps- they are anti bmp.

Nope- just anti bu11shit bmps.....

[MRussell]

IMHO The BMP studies are looked at by our various State Resource Depts. like people seeing things on TV. What do I mean? If it is on T.V. then is has to be true and we need to govern our department accordingly. These studies are becoming much more than suggestions. I am not anti BMP by any means. I do however see that some state agencies are trendy and follow trends like sheep to the slaughter.

[Steve Gappa]

Good point MR- if its on TV or written in a paper... its fact. Hard to change....facts.

and we know the bmps contain untruths and inaccurate information. We need to be careful we don't give the bad the same value we give the good.

And NOW is the time to be heard..... I can only think, with the communication between TRAPPERS (not organisations) nowadays, what a different perspective and scope the bmps might have had if started today.

We CAN correct the mistakes of the past...but not by patting them (the bmp committee) on the back and insisting the suns shines brightly every day....trappnman

[MRussell]

T'man What baffles me still is the obvious overwhelming desire that some people have for these studies to 100% truthful & factual in all occasions. At what point does a mans or a group's desire to be right become so strong that they are unmovable? To the point that they vigorously defend all of their actions and print less than the truth.
What IS Best should over rule any desire to be right. People get sued & lose over such like everyday.

You are correct in the communication lines between trappers are stronger and more open than ever. Nowadays Trappers actually talk to one another about meaningful things. Imagine that ! Someone needs to wake up to that fact.The Trapping community does not consist of a bunch of uneducated numb skulls.

MR

[trappincoyotes39]

T'man What baffles me still is the obvious overwhelming desire that some people have for these studies to 100% truthful & factual in all occasions. At what point does a mans or a group's desire to be right become so strong that they are unmovable? To the point that they vigorously defend all of their actions and print less than the truth.
What IS Best should over rule any desire to be right. People get sued & lose over such like everyday.

Mrussell GO ON?

Trendy? If trendy is the key word in your game Dept and how they make decisions you need some changes. "most" wildlife Biologist go off of facts and data and have people collect that data to the best of there ability's, "good" game Dept's have over whelming facts and data to disprove the radicals and antis' because facts are facts in some cases. The data will lead you to the most logical conclusion and in the past all trappers had was their thoughts and setting a 1.5 off on their hand didn't do nothing for the voting public and had no factual backing of what humane means at all, that is why states lost some of those privileges.

Dealing with the humane aspect of what trappers do is key and is hard to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt but the BMP's lend creditablity to trappers and they have data to back it up.

[trappnman]

TC- if you don't think trendy doesn't describe the game departments in many states- I think you are wrong. The heads of the dnr- all the top guys in MN and in many states, are political appointees. Hopefully a well qualifed person is chosen- sometimes yes, sometimes no.

TRendy is what such appointees often are- catering to them asses. Why is Turkey hunting such a big deal to most dnrs? $$$$$. Its a very trendy sport right now and they have clout through numbers. In some staters its the houndrunners that have the clout, in others its the deer hunting.

What state do trappers have the clout? None that I am aware off. Read on the NTA website where there were 1/2 million trappers. I don't believe this, as state statistics I see- have never been over 200,000 and thats including hound hunters and coyote callers in many states.

So trappers have no real clout. Our clout is showing other user groups our value.

We cannot afford nor can we accept- ANY bmp document that we know to be flawed.

[MRussell]

The data will lead you to the most logical conclusion and in the past all trappers had was their thoughts and setting a 1.5 off on their hand didn't do nothing for the voting public and had no factual backing of what humane means at all, that is why states lost some of those privileges.

Dealing with the humane aspect of what trappers do is key and is hard to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt but the BMP's lend credibility to trappers and they have data to back it up.

Go On I will,
You know as well as everyone else does, that the anti's have a hard on for all of us(sportsmen) and when someone feels that way logic and science are quickly replaced by propaganda and agenda.

The big riff that I see is these BMP's are not bullet proof and being such lends to an avenue for more unnecessary regulation. That when not adhered to gives those people with hard ons more Viagra. The BMP's are similar in principle to the No Child Left Behind Act, It was a well meaning act that has imposed some really tough STANDARDS on the end user. ask any teacher.

Trends, the trends are to down size these sate departments. Thus a lot of the good people leave,those that stay are subject to censure and threat of loosing their jobs if they don't go along with the current administration. So these studies done should be fault free because when they are done it is easier to for several reasons for our DNR's to adopt these as regulation. Look around it has already happened.

The looming fear is that these studies will become STANDARDS for all trappers.

WE need scientific studies,logic and fact but that alone is not enough. We need CLOUT. Clout equates to the understanding that there are enough pissed of constituents to cause Mr. or Ms legislator to loose their job.

[trappincoyotes39]

TC- if you don't think trendy doesn't describe the game departments in many states- I think you are wrong. The heads of the dnr- all the top guys in MN and in many states, are political appointees. Hopefully a well qualified person is chosen- sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I don't think that as the "trendy"ones don't last from old administration to new. The ones that last are the ones who look to protect the resources and look out for all sportsman. The trendy ones get in hot water with sportsman and landowners putting pressure on Administrations to look for a new guy,so I don't buy that maybe your state but not all are trendy Dept Heads by any means.

Trendy is what such appointees often are- catering to them asses. Why is Turkey hunting such a big deal to most dnrs? $$$$$. Its a very trendy sport right now and they have clout through numbers. In some States its the houndrunners that have the clout, in others its the deer hunting.

I can tell you why turkey hunting and other forms are catching on, to take pressure off of limited resource species and keep as many people happy as possible when it comes to sportsman. Nothing wrong with adding new opportunity's for sportsman as it helps all species and yes bring in more $$$ for the Dept, they don't have fixed cost so they new ways outside of annual license increases which no one would like to help keep Dept's running in a professional manner. Case in point: Iowa will have an otter and bobcat season for trappers, when was the last time the state had either? Who helped with the "Otter be in Iowa program"? The trappers and the DNR now you create more opportunity for trappers.

So trappers have no real clout. Our clout is showing other user groups our value

I disagree with part one and agree with part 2. One of the main user groups with a ton of clout is who? Landowners and they deal with depredation issues all the time.

MRussell:The big riff that I see is these BMP's are not bullet proof and being such lends to an avenue for more unnecessary regulation.

Who said they where bullet proof? Who also said these will become regulation for all and every state? I have always said, " The states that are most likely to use BMP's as regs are the very states where trapping is under heavy fire and will be used in positive manners to promote and educate and then if needed to save trapping may become rules and regs. NOT ALL states want or have any notion of making these standard rules and regs. Some states have tougher regs now that what the BMP"s describe in the data and testing for crying out loud.

The BMP's are similar in principle to the No Child Left Behind Act, It was a well meaning act that has imposed some really tough STANDARDS on the end user. ask any teacher.

NO there not as the No child left behind act is not voluntary, the word standards is a key word to set a base line and improve upon that. My wife has taught school for 14 years and is now a principle and unlike some of the doom and gloomers the No child left behind has many great aspects, we could go into that but, that would be a whole thread on it own!

The BMP's are not law and each state has the right to make their own rules and regs as they have done for years and years. The BMP's point out the ability of certain tools to perform to a baseline accepted either agree with the line or not and many good findings have come from this. Again before what data did trappers have period on what a trap type and design would do? None we had nothing to back up our claim and now the antis have nothing on the humane issues of trapping as the science and data along with widespread acceptance from party's on both sides.

Trends, the trends are to down size these sate departments. Thus a lot of the good people leave,those that stay are subject to censure and threat of loosing their jobs if they don't go along with the current administration. So these studies done should be fault free because when they are done it is easier to for several reasons for our DNR's to adopt these as regulation. Look around it has already happened.

The looming fear is that these studies will become STANDARDS for all trappers

With the amount of wildlife in many, many states what states are looking or doing downsizing of their Game Dept's? Fault free? what do you mean? Your DNR should not be looking at adopting anything as new regs without public discussion sessions and seeing if these new regs would hurt or help control wild species and what benefit to the state is there or isn't. You must remember changes rules and regs is not something easily done and is always at a cost to someone or some user group and if you have a good Game commission they realize this .

The looming fear has no merit plane and simple. NOT ALL states and NOT ALL trappers will be regulated into BMP"s, because predators and fur bearers hold different meanings in different states!

[trappnman]

downsizing occurs in MN, if no other state. I'd imagine it occurs in most states.

Money is tight.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman in alot of states their is more federal and state spending on Game Dept's this year WY gets 2 million more from the general fund from the state for wildlife habitat uses due to the booming oil, the feds just passed a new North American Fish and aquatics act more money, if states have a decent population of sportsman their is funding to be had. The more diverse your wildlife species and recreation offerings the better your game dept will be finically.

[MRussell]

TC, In my line of work I am constantly faced with truly seeing someone's point and doing my very best to understand where they are coming from.
I see where you are coming from, I think. Because of our locale and situations we definitely have two different views. The view from "here" is not gloom and doom; it just has the potential to be not so nice, to actually be more restrictive. I believe others feel the same way. The No Child act, well, it affects different areas in different ways,some ways not so good at all. It has good points but could be lots better, depending on what education professional you talk to and where they are from . The BMP's could be lots better depending on which BMP and what state your are located in. You're right: BMP's will never be bullet proof. I hope they are never the gospel either.

We don't have lots of game (big revenue type); we do have a our share of big bucks and a few turkeys. We have a strong NWTF state chapter. That is a good thing.We have had the errant mountain lion turn up(dead) but they don't count ;D.
I still agree with Steve about trappers and clout. I also believe that if it were not for a few KEY user groups, trappers would really be on the run in the majority of the states.

Our DNR, well our Governor called our DNR a luxury and was planning to consolidate the CPO's with The State Police and absorb the DNR by way of another department. The budget has been slashed along with the staff. So here, we are doing well to hang on to what we have in spite of all of the science and facts that support our cause.

From what I have read you are very passionate in your support of the all BMP's and the BMP process.