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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 14, 2005 15:04:05 GMT -6
akona20 by all means dive right in if you have something to inject that will shed light on this either for or against!
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Post by SgtWal on Dec 14, 2005 17:30:44 GMT -6
It has been stated that the BMP will give us ammo and information that will convince the public that trapping is a humane and well thought out practice. What do we say then, when they agree, and then demand that trappers should be REQUIRED to use ONLY BMP approved traps and methods? In 1985, when New Jersey banned footholds, the number of trappers dropped by 50%. By 10 years later the remainder dropped another 50%. As of today it still is less than 50% of the original number. They didn't retool, by new traps, or scale back. They just packed it in. BMP standards may well have the same impact and reduce numbers to the point where trapping simply dies of starvation.
wayne
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 14, 2005 17:42:27 GMT -6
Sgt Wal, hunting has come along ways in the fact that in alot of areas with high deer numbers more receptive to hunters, but yet they do not mandate much of anything to the Game Depts, what would make you think they would do different with trapping? They want to be informed to the point of knowing we are doing what we can to be thinking of the animals welfare, but if they wanted to be more involved they would be doing so or would have done so by now. It is to inform them on what we as trappers do or are doing to maintain good practices towards the species we consume, no different than hunting or any other factual information given to the people of the US.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 14, 2005 18:04:20 GMT -6
I'm guessing it wasn't THIS forum?
Post away....your ..opinion is as good as any others....
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Post by coyoteman37 on Dec 15, 2005 7:59:38 GMT -6
OK so now you will not get young trappers trapping coon because they cant use a 1.5. thats how most kids get started.. that the first trap I caught animals in. when I first started I had to stand on the spring of a number 1 to set it. also comes to mind that some people seem to forget the animal IS GOING TO DIE dont be a wussy and worry about the fricken olsen scale that is a waste of time paper and money. before this or these nuts came along traps have been captureing and holding animals since the 20's . Now tell me WHO started the bmp ? what is the purpose why . we are a free nation our nation was mapped and discovered by beaver trappers. face the facts the fur trade is not for someone who plants flowers and thinks the world is perfect. you have to KILL the animal SKIN ( cut peel the fur leaving the carcuss with EXPOSED fat and muscle) flesh and stretch the fur before sale. it is raw but thats the way it is. no different than a processing plant. trappers are being fed this line of crap boo hoo the poor animal . get a grip. 35 you MAY be a trapper hopeing young kids get started but I feel you are fighting for them INSTEAD of us. why dont we just create a laser box invisable to the animal and when is steps in the 2 ft square he cant move. still breathing just cant move. if you and these other nut jobs get the way they want it thats what is going to happen. If someone dont want to buy our fur because of we trapped it SCREW'EM. With and the disasters happening fur will keep you warm when you lost your house do think they care where or how the garmet came to be? doubt it. If trappers stand up to people like you and this butt - headed study we as trappers will be better off. I support a family by trapping nothing else my methods work and I should not have to change becaus of a passer by thought it is cruel. remember the ugly women law? if it works dont fix it. lams offsets are nice but if you cant afford them or dont want them that should be your choice. offsets and lams were designed for the longliner who has longer check periods.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 15, 2005 9:40:34 GMT -6
do think that bmps done right, or even the concept of bmps- can help some opposed to trapping, those that are intellectually opposed to trapping that is and not EMOTIONALLY opposed to trapping- understand and accept trapping. At the time of Paul Wellstone's death- I had an ongoing letter correspondence with him concerning trapping and the bmps. Think of Paul las you will- he was a man constitutionally strong and very intelligent. He was very opposed to the proposed EU fur ban- on fair trade issues and he would have been a staunch Ally on that front. And trapping- he was opposed to it if it was "cruel"- but if it could be done "humanely", in his words, he was not opposed to it. A good starting point, and the type of people that are going to be impressed by the bmps.
Unfortunately- most antis are not looking at the issue intellectually. And thats where the trouble starts- first of all, bmps don't mean squat to them. In their hands, the bmps would be a weapon. Sort of a Sat night special issue if you will. The laws against the Sat nite specials were where many of our modern gun laws originated- that is, the sat nite special laws were the foot in the door- and many, many anti gun came from this. After all, who could be opposed to banning cheap sat nite specials, which were, as Lynard Skinner said..."good for one thing, and that's to put a man 6 foot in the ground..."
BMPs will be the same. I cannot of course predict the future with 100% accuracy- but I have been around a while and with degrees in political science and sociology, I think I understand the basic progression of people and laws. And I see it happening. AS I pointed out in other posts- its already beginning with the snaring cable restraint bmps (and they are bmps in EVERY meaning of the word- the fact that they were not conceived by the official bmp group means nothing) and the try in Montana on check times. After all, aren't 24 hour check times reasonable and humane?
So we, as trappers, have to be VERY careful on what we endorse. If a study is full of bad protocol including the Olson Scale (trust NO authority) - why allow it to become "official" without challenging it?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 15, 2005 15:50:36 GMT -6
OK so now you will not get young trappers trapping coon because they cant use a 1.5. thats how most kids get started.
I would think the overall cost of all equipment compaired to what it used to be, plays a roll with or with out BMP's. Because the 1.5 hasn't passed standards is the reason young trappers are lacking in numbers? I think not. Also what states has outlawed the 1.5 for coons? What ones do you know of in the next 1-2 years are thinking of doing such? The idead of blaiming yonger kids particpation in trapping because of BMP findings has zero merit to it. More like depressed fur markets, overall cost of equipment rising, and the lack of role models in the form of trappers are for more the reason. Kids being more disconnected from the outdoors, the video games and such being more crucial than the BMP's.
also comes to mind that some people seem to forget the animal IS GOING TO DIE dont be a wussy and worry about the fricken olsen scale that is a waste of time paper and money. before this or these nuts came along traps have been captureing and holding animals since the 20's
Yes true our country was founded on trapping, we used to allow prostitues in most citys and was legal as well, we never had any drinking laws back in the day either, you could kill a man for cheating at cards in some parts and have no problems, guns were allowed in bars as well. So what is your point? Social changes have come about it happens. Does it make it all bad? The olsen scale is a means to test the traps but it could be called any other scale, the bottom line is when you hold the tool accountable it must pass a set of standards, we could argue over those until the end of time, some things in all testing will pass and somethings will fail. These are guidlines, again you miss the point each state can use the information from testing in any manner they chose, take away the BMP's and states still have the right to make rules and regs, the uniformity of the information I feel will help all Game Depts, exspecially those lacking good knowledge about trapping. Also these nuts have influance on trapping like it or not you can not dismiss them you do and you end up like Colorado,California breeding ground of the nuts by the way, Mass, Florida, and washington and arizona!!!!!
We can not just say to hell with them because they have an agenda and the money to further that agenda, we must fight for trapping and trappers, but you need to do it in a smart way, not the bully approach!!!! The very people who decide our fate is the people of your state and mine, not the nuts and not the trappers!!! Information and education is the key, either without facts or merit will not appeal to tge general public, the more people we can get behind us and find the facts out the better. We are better off with the IAFWA than without , they are our states biologist and others that have good standing with the people. Also some from the otherside have been involved not all vets are anti trapping I can asure you, but even those that slant that way that are involved, can not go against the findings of these test or they loose all creditabilty! Flip flopping on a topic is not what the people like or would stand for! If we have stayed the course as we have done in the past I have no doubt more states would loose trapping and to try and get it back is 20-30x's more difficult than keeping trapping around in each and every state we can!!! I think some just worry about themselves and no one else, their will be some minor concessions, but they will never outweigh the lost ability to trap in a state!
what is the purpose why . we are a free nation our nation was mapped and discovered by beaver trappers. face the facts the fur trade is not for someone who plants flowers and thinks the world is perfect. you have to KILL the animal SKIN ( cut peel the fur leaving the carcuss with EXPOSED fat and muscle) flesh and stretch the fur before sale. it is raw but thats the way it is. no different than a processing plant. trappers are being fed this line of crap boo hoo the poor animal . get a grip. 35 you MAY be a trapper hopeing young kids get started but I feel you are fighting for them INSTEAD of us
We are are free nation and part of that is majority rules, sorry just the way it is. If trapping were to come to a public vote in your state or mine, then the majority rules! The whole point is to get people to understand that we are a service to them, that we care about the animals, which any good trapper does, not different than hunting. That we are as kind as we can be with the tools we use, no one has stated that we must reinvent the wheel on equipment, far from that. Most of what we use today will be in use tomorrow and many years to come, we want the facts to prove this point out, the anti's are all about emotion, they can't prove there point, we can through this testing and show that the foothold trap is still a great tool and has been modified in ways to make them even better! Tell me if it came to having to use a fully modifed #3 or loose trapping which decision would you make? Easy for many look at trappers in some states mandated to use the #3 softcatch, and yet they keep on trapping. That all got passed through emotional circumstances, we now have the proof that steel jawes traps are not what the anti's claim them to be, we can support it with facts!!! Science shows them against the softy and how they can be equal or better in some cases. Before we had nothing to factually prove that, so the states through public pressure made snap decisions without any facts, in that case I would say even the anti rhetoric got to the people of those states and the Game Depts, you don't see that as a dangerous outcome? I sure do. There isn't a line of crap boo hoo, the public in states will demand that we treat things with respect, and hunting has come alongs ways in that reguard we can learn from those groups, and that will help trappers today and tomorrow. Processing plants have measures in place as well, just a part of doing business. I am fighting for trapping period! Today,tomorrow and for years to come. So many want to look at the here and now, but don't want to look at the big picture. Say no BMP"s ever took place we carry on as we have in the past, what state could/would be next? What would we have to fight off the anti propaganda? How many states game depts would back trappers? Could your state be next? If it was then what do you do? Look at the states that lost trapping and ask people from those states were their support came from and how well their Game Depts did in the cause? Ask Major Boddicker what he thinks of the Colorado Game Dept. He will tell you they backed down and went away with there tails between their legs and let the liberial left have their way. They pay for it now and will continue, but what is the cost to gain trapping back in that state going to be if it ever happens. The anti's are like a sail, the more wind they get behind them the stronger they would get! We will never be able to match them dollar wise and why would we try, it is not about the money, it is about presenting facts and information to those that can decide our outcomes.
If someone dont want to buy our fur because of we trapped it SCREW'EM. With and the disasters happening fur will keep you warm when you lost your house do think they care where or how the garmet came to be? doubt it.
That statement I just don't get? If fur has no value then what do you do with? Look at the value of it now and yet your willing to turn away the market all together? You see wild fur isn't a needed item, ranch fur could/would supply everyone with the needed goods to survive. I mean really how many US people need fur to survive the cold when we have gore tex, nylon, wool, fleece,thinsulate and many other choices that are way cheaper than fur? It is a luxury to many people both here and abroad and those countrys that buy it for true warmth have done so because of there history. It is still an item of statis no matter how you slice it. The US people don't need fur, we enjoy it and market it as luxury, like diamonds. There are many other choices and that changes decade to decade and so do fur prices. Those furs that net you big $$$$ are not a needed item by people they are a luxury item, a statis symbol in each country, as demand rises so does the price of the fur. Demand falls so does the fur. On to the next craze etc.
If trappers stand up to people like you and this butt - headed study we as trappers will be better off. I support a family by trapping nothing else my methods work and I should not have to change becaus of a passer by thought it is cruel
Tell me how we are better off by saying screw all you people that don't like us trapping animals any way we see fit? Tell me how that will work out when they put it to a vote in your state or mine? Those people who vote would have resentment against all of us and trapping would be gone before you could blink an eye! How would you run for president? If you don't like me then screw you, but I look for your vote in November! Think you would win? Or would the anti's that show their film and say there lies, but yet show the people that they care about them and know them to be highly intelligant voters will do the right thing? What message will win out? Come man get real. People want the facts and to be talked to in a manner were your not telling them off or presenting the idea that you know more than they do, and if they don't see it your way then screw them, that would get you no were on any issue, you just turned then off and they will not listen to you no matter your facts or ideas. Offsets cost very little more and lamination works it has been proven, it also states that not all traps need this modifcation to pass. I would ask you what is trapping worth to you? The ugly lady thing doesn't deserve a comment.
Tman your opinion is that many states will enact all BMP's into law, mine is they won't. Each state will make their own decisions on game laws, as they have done in the past. You make it sound because of the BMP"s states will enact more rules and regs, when all along they have had the power to do so at anytime. They will have data to look at, none of which we have had before, they will be stronger game depts against anti's with that data than without it for sure. If any state trys to get a season on a species that has been listed as threatend they must have data to back it up, or the anti's will sue and stop the season. They are used to looking at data and use it for the benefit of their state in alot of cases and not have a negative impact. Wyoming spent dollars on data to enact a Mt Lion season for the people of their state, not to regulate it so heavy it wouldn't happen. Game depts/biologist need data to make decisions and have ability to go infront of people and user groups to get their pints across, why do you think the people hold them in a higher reguard than anti's and trappers? They use good sound data to back theri cases for many issues. The olsen scale we can debate that forever, and if not for it we would still be debating that and have no testing and spending millions on a new test score, and would it really be soo much different than the olsen scale? What would it look like to you and how would it function?
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Post by trappnman on Dec 15, 2005 16:15:45 GMT -6
I think without a doubt that if the numerical scores were calculated with the thought of a coon in mind- the scale and the values would have been much different. Mr Hamilton told me trappers argued for a different scale to be used, but were voted down. This isn't something I'm making up- its a statement that was posted on this forum and can still be read if you look back through posts.
For example- I don't believe chewing on a toe should be equated with loosing a toe by a coyote in a coyote trap. I am firmly convinced- that coon chew for 1 reason and one reason only. To escape whatever is holding them and they are going to react like they do to danger with teeth and nail. I don't believe, and it certainly seems more logical than the alternative, that coon start chewing right way. Once the foot goes numb- a plus in canines when you really think about in. Numb equals no pain. It wouldn't do for catch and release but for harvesting its a plus in my book. Not a plus in coon, because now in his effort to bite the trap, the object restraining him, he bites himself.
So- a scale would need to be based on that- and below jaw injuries should not be equal in scope to above trap or other injuries.
Secondly- I'm not against bmps- I see their value and if done correctly, are a useful tool. I think the eastern coyote one is very well done and could have been written by trappers. Its obvious to see that the committee listened to experienced trappers and heeded their suggestions.
But- and this is the important but- if they are done incorrectly- and I don't think the coon bmps were good "science" in much of any way at all. The trappers wanted something different but the vets said no? what the hey- screw them. We gave in on an important, perhaps the most important component of the coon bmps. And secondly- damn it all, I've trapped a lot of coon unlike the way most coon trappers trap. Most either run 1) lots of 220s or 2) lots of river/water sets. Or both. And I've preferred canines over coon, so trap the fringes- the upland coon, the winter coon. I KNOW the protocol used for the most part- and I've gone into all that before- is exactly what I'd do IF MY OBJECTIVE was to get the maximum amount of coon to chew.
And thats my dissatisfaction with the coon bmps.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 15, 2005 17:02:54 GMT -6
tman, I don't think we could say anything below the jaws can go without higher negative score. That is were most of the damage occurs and also how many coon have you trapped that had nothing for toes on one or both feet? I have caught in traps,snares and conibears many like this. While I have had very few chew above the trap as they can feel that portion of there foot. So in essance with that kind of scale why test for coons at all? Being serious, you could have many and I have caught them in sterlings and #3 mods that show no signs above the jaws and have all toes missing with tendons hanging. I don't think the testing would be seen with much positive to it. The negative would be we allow the coon and skunk to pass with missing toes but hold all other species to a higher scale? May work if we didn't have traps like the grizz,coon cuff,egg trap and dbl jawed traps out on the market, tough defend a trap that doesn't limit chewing when others clearly can, without certain methods needing to be followed. I mean look at it either way we loosen the score and certain traps set head and shoulders above others or we allow chewing below the jaws on all foot traps and then it makes the enclosed traps out to be a god send when the score is finalized. Or we hold all tools and species to a set of standards. I look at this from just what a common Joe would see from the data and would be very logical to see bias in it. If coon trappers really want the 1.5 reg jaw and can live with recommendations unlike we have seen before, then I say go ahead, I just see alot complaining about it as well.
If you take your techniques and test the trap and it passes, but the stipulations are dragging and using a certain sized drag, then I see more states saying ok, all these others passed under different circumstances, yet the only passing grade for the 1.5 is if A,B, and C was followed I for one feel this would mandate some to set regs that this trap only gets used in this manner. Not like the coyote BMP were your set the traps, made the set and staked it or dragged them and yet we had a wide varity of traps pass. Very little in the way for any game dept to set rules for this as it conforms with trappers and game regs already. Then you also factor in if the trap can not be staked to pass the coon BMP, what about those states that don't allow dragging of traps? They then change the regs for this one trap or open it to all traps and then * the 1.5 must be used in this manner only to be legal. I just see the more technique you put into the tool to get it to pass the more regulation would logicly follow from all the stipulations the passing score came under.
If I set a grizz and staked it dry ground set or in the water would there be any differance in the score pass versus fail? I doubt it highly, yes it is a specialized trap but it does what is was intended for and that is to trap coons, same for any other enclosed trap. I'm not against coon traps or coon trappers, but I feel strongly you must keep all testing on the same field. Test the tool and limit techniques to a bare minimum for the best outcome down the road.
It may take some doing but I bet someone outhere will come out with away to make 1.5 modifed in some way to pass the grade, why? Money to be made from all of this as well. I'm wondering about the grizz if it comes to light without testing being mentioned a few years back? I know trappers would have liked a different scale mainly for coons because they new with the protocol coons would have a hard time passing with much of a foot trap choice. That is a concession at this point. We could have fought it and then those on the opposing side could have went back to their people saying the trappers manipulated the outcome to get what they wanted on coon. Chewed toes won't be given the same score as all other species etc Lowers are creditability, and you could say they manipulated it as well, but trappers will always continue to tinker and find away to make things work.
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Post by MChewk on Dec 15, 2005 20:44:07 GMT -6
The heck with it....fox trap or opossum trap with your #1 1/2s....IF you happen to catch 500 coon while doing it ...so be it. Joe Public doesn't care or know the difference. Trappers tried to input their knowledge and methods...the coon being a "different bird" didn't play along.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 15, 2005 22:41:50 GMT -6
Mchewk thats the way I see it going on this one in many states were coon trapping is big.
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Post by MChewk on Dec 16, 2005 4:38:45 GMT -6
Devils Advocate here.....then in the big scheme of things was it all worth it?
AND let me answer my own question..lol....Like others I see BMPs as a potential aid for the SCIENTIFIC view of trapping...laminations, jaw widths, base plating, middle base chain anchoring, swiveling, pan notching....etc is all worth while testing, information and research that I guess had to be finally tabulated for the science/ biological community to have and hopefully use for reference. We trappers knew it in the 1970s-80s when Slim, Charlie, JC and others were playing around and made suggestions to trappers about their findings. Yes this info had to be OFFICIALLY researched and recorded ...but the catch is I really don't think that its going to make a difference in trapping overall due to the lack of money and interest. Because even with all this research the ANTIS still are using the emotions of people to attempt to defeat us. What we really need is the EXPERTS to stand up and support us. THE FRICKIN' fish and game departments....the ones who would easily rally the public behind trapping! But they refuse because of political reasons. That needs to change! ...Only my opinion
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 16, 2005 7:39:46 GMT -6
It will be worth it. In some cases the Game Dept it may be political, I feel in many others though, their not willing to stick there necks out because they had no data or science to back trapping and don't want to look dumb founded or not be quoted as saying trapping and footholds are humane without that data! They can now back up that stance with proof, that would make anyone more comfortable hen dealing with the public, exspecially biologist who crunch numbers and information to make their cases for things.
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Post by bblwi2 on Dec 16, 2005 8:42:17 GMT -6
I think that DNRs and others want the idea of scientific studies etc. so that when conversing with general public other sporting groups and politic ions they can say that scientific studies have been done, are being done and are continually being used and BMPs are being created and changed over time. With each state DNR involved with a process and working WITH their local state affiliate and or sporting groups state BMPS could and should be modified to fit the needs of each area. The idea that a state like MT just takes some BMP from say WI and puts it to a state senator is really BS. That is why states have DNRs and affiliates. It is not the fault of the states who create BMPs that work for them it is the fault of others for not really being able to state why the practices they use are not the BMP for them. The idea that we do little to nothing and stay in the dark serves no one any valuable purpose. Also why jump all over biologist and the ecology types when many trap suppliers have been selling the modification stuff for years and in many cases to trappers in areas where the modifications probably are not even needed as well.
Bryce
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Post by MChewk on Dec 16, 2005 9:02:44 GMT -6
But Bryce ....Very seldom have I seen/heard of DNR (or other like agencies) stand up straight and announce to crazed antis that trapping is important to all wildlife. This is where videos like DESTROYING THE MYTH can be convicing to those that can actually see a animal in a trap...be held then released. Will it convice sway 100% of politicians...obviously not ...because of the money from antis influence. Do trappers know that releasing EVERY furbearer as shown on the video is realistic...maybe not. The threatened and endangered species tool that is sometims used is a powerful weapon in my opinion due to again scientific studies. Take what DELTA WATERFOWL has done...very convincing....but mostly to other sportsmen groups. I also believe restocking furbearers has also been a convincing tool.... we need more support from DNR guys
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Post by trappnman on Dec 16, 2005 11:19:59 GMT -6
the state senator from Montana did not use the WI cable bmps- he was quoting the coyote bmps.
secondly- with all this fine talk about animals welfare- I was told the same thing by Dave Hamilton- that if 1.5 are made illegal on land for coon- just trap fox.
Doesn't this attitude make a mockery out of the purposes of BMPs?
please, do not mention the myth video in a serious conversation about bmps. The myth video is in my opinion a $130,000 joke. It was a tool all right...for SRI and Wills.
I cannot see how the myth video would convince anybody of anything. Notice how al lthe drum bangers that were proclaiming the myth video as the savior of trapping have falen silent? With good reason- the video was made, promoted and now is forgotten as the new video "SRI makes more money" comes out next month.
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Post by SgtWal on Dec 16, 2005 12:43:58 GMT -6
For almost a year I went to meetings that were re-writing our ADC regs. Again we have some folks at the DNR that want to be on the "cutting edge" of things so they decided to start here. Of those at the meetings 3 came from the DNR, 3 from Animal Rights/Welfare groups, and 3 from trapper groups. Of the 9 guess which 3 were all but silent. RIGHT the DNR. Not once did they speak up one way or another. They brought no information to the table, no history of problems or complaints, no nothing. When an AR made a statement, no matter what, it was up to the trapper reps to respond. DO NOT WAIT FOR THEM TO SPEAK UP. They know which side the bread is buttered on. Giving them scientific evidence is like giving a gun to a Quaker in a fire fight, they won't use it anyway. Each "BMP" should be attached to a study for that state that shows why fur trapping is needed. And we need to narrow the talk to that issue as well. To FUR trapping and not just an open ended trapping in general.
wayne
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 16, 2005 14:19:52 GMT -6
Doesn't this attitude make a mockery out of the purposes of BMPs?
No I don't see it that way at all. If you target say a coyote and your a "coyote" trapper, well alot will depend on how many non target species you have, the ability or skill sets you have for trapping coyotes. If a new trapper said, "yep I target coyotes I'm a coyote trapper", and say in a month he caught 4 coyotes, but caught 9 fox and 8 skunks and 15 possum, could we trully say he was targeting coyotes? He might of had intentions to take more coyotes but with non targets being out of our control to a degree. Then I don't see it as a mockery.
The data shows the capture efficancty for each trap on the species tested, not the ability of target versus non target catches, in fact coons are the one species you can trully target with a high degree of capture rate and you do that by using specie specific coon traps. Tman your main thought might be to trap coons, but do catch fox,possum and other non targets? Also in a water trapping scenario, you set the 1.5 at the waters edge at a pocket set, who is to say what the target is? It may be thought out in one persons mind your targeting mink, the other rats or the other coons. Do you set water traps to catch all 3 species? and if so what is the intended target and what is the non target catches? Now if you really wanted to target just coons again you would pull out the grizz's and the egg traps and the coon cuffs, but your not targeting coons, you are targeting mink and the coons and rats are the non target species caught. The BMP data is for intended target species only.
The data shows that at this time 1.5 doesn't pass as a coon trap, it may show they work fine on rats and mink etc. You see thats why I have a hard time believing that any state would mandate the BMP's verbatum into law, it would be very hard to get convictions and those that trully target coons and want to can do so with the enclosed type traps. I may set a trap for coyotes, but will a jack come by first or a porcupine, a red fox , bobcat or a skunk? Out of my control, I set on the coyote sign and try to catch my intended target, but ones man target species is anothers non target species so to say.
Wayne I don't know your DNR people and if I were you I would find out how much experiance they have in trapping or trapping related reg talks, I don't see giving them the BMP data as a bad thing unless your DNR is out to get trappers then no matter what you are in trouble. As mentioned prior, alot of those Game people are uneasy talking on a subject they have little information on, a biologist conducts studys and reads data and that is how they come up with the conclusions,they are not willing to "wing it" and then to be proven wrong or taken out of context.
If you have a good Game dept that information will be used and also alot of them know that trapping is needed in their states and some don't that is what the BMPs and the reason the IAFWA has meetings with many states game depts, to educate and inform those that have not been in contact with trapping alot. The trapping matters work shop is an excellent overview of what you described!! Very good information for all people who work for the Game dept and in our state it was a must attendance for the people that work for the game dept. You might check with them and see if they had this one day course come to your state?
Biologist love data and facts, with that they feel comfortable talking to groups of people and can explain what they are looking for and what results they want to acheive, without good data your not getting much from any game dept on any subject. They never want the information they relay to be not honest or not full of good factaul information, they run on creditability and they don't like to endanger that with the general public. Each state again is different and how their Game dept looks at fishing,hunting and trapping, they seek out and lsiten to public input and that goes along ways into the decisions they make, the sportsman has a strong voice if unified.
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Post by akona20 on Dec 16, 2005 15:24:15 GMT -6
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Post by MChewk on Dec 16, 2005 16:44:45 GMT -6
But 35 what if you don't have the luxury of having a good knowledgable open minded DNR? What then? Is a guy or that states trapping assoc stuck? Where can BMPs help in this situation?
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