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Post by bobwendt on Dec 23, 2007 14:06:39 GMT -6
the red gene is incomplete dominance, why the variation from light cross to darker cross. they are all properly termed bastards. the true western silver onto eastern silver produces the very very dark crosses, termed "blended cross" in the trade. the term cross is kind of nebulous and means whatever anyone wants it to mean. kind of like a rick of wood.
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Post by musher on Dec 23, 2007 15:10:42 GMT -6
I dunno Bob. I just went into "Wild Furbearer Management and Conservation in North America" and copied what was in there. that's the BRICK that OTA put out way back when. I thought that it was the Bible of the fur trade.
But what do they know! lol
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 23, 2007 16:05:32 GMT -6
most of those guys havn`t even a clue an alaskan silver isn`t the same genetic fluke as an eastern silver. like the wheel being invented in two places at the same time but not on the same wagon so to speak. heres another nifty something no one ever knew anywhere untill I found it out, by looking at my red fox at night with spot lights. silver eyes shine blue, red fox eyes red, but a red carrying the resessive silver gene shines blue also. some reds even tho a bastard or smokey don`t show it phenotypically, but their eyes shine it! that way a guy could take two blue shiners that appeared to be straight reds and get silvers. a genetic impossibility according to those guys you quoted, but I can and have done it by shining eyes at night and picking my breeders that way. just tricks to the trade that you`ll never see in print anywhere. who`d a thunk it? I hope all the fur breeding knowledge like this isn`t lost, but like trapping knowledge it is all dust in the wind I`m afraid.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 23, 2007 17:34:23 GMT -6
Well bad note to a good story. I went out and spent 10 minutes skinning the tail out meticulously and then ripped the GD back leg off the hide.
I hardly even pulled on it either. Dang that was disappointing!! I'm going to get the remains tanned anyway. I'll sew the leg back up and see what happens.
On a positive note the big cat stretched 48 inches, the other one 44.
Dang I can't believe I did that!!
Joel
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 23, 2007 18:42:11 GMT -6
tsk tsk. they aren`t tough hided like a cat. the tails you can strip in a second or two. wish I was there to skin it for you. I`m sure you`d get it quick if you had more to do. there is a very good chance if you saturate the area where you caught that one you`ll get 5-6 more. they are pretty dumb and just keep coming back to common dirtholes and the more you catch at a set the better it gets. very very unlikly that fox was alone.
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Dec 23, 2007 19:32:01 GMT -6
Thats a pretty neat fox Joel
Jeff
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Post by coloradocat on Dec 23, 2007 19:56:18 GMT -6
Pretty cool Joel. We have reds, but I aint never seen a purty one like that one. By the way, you cant horse them fox hides like a cat,lol.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 23, 2007 22:21:46 GMT -6
Yeah I learned that the hard way. Dangit!!
Joel
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Post by musher on Dec 24, 2007 5:54:03 GMT -6
there is a very good chance if you saturate the area where you caught that one you`ll get 5-6 more. they are pretty dumb and just keep coming back to common dirtholes and the more you catch at a set the better it gets. very very unlikly that fox was alone. Or you could leave them alone and you'd have more next year!
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 24, 2007 7:53:41 GMT -6
I think he was the only one, I saw his track a couple of times in the sand, thought it was a small coyote. I could be wrong.
Joel
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Post by lynxcat on Dec 24, 2007 8:59:50 GMT -6
NICE one... Cody take the picture??? ;D
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Post by hotandry on Dec 24, 2007 13:38:34 GMT -6
Joel,
Beautiful pelt. Cross fox all the way. And a very nice one.
During the boom I was trapping a valley in W. Montana that was loaded with reds. And skunks. About 20% of the reds were cross fox. Some were caught side by side with a red one.
Sent the whole bunch to Dominion/Soudack cause I heard they knew what to do with these things. Found out there are cross fox that a weak in the market and others that are very strong. Of the 15 cross fox, seven went into a lot that went top dollar. $270 each. Did better than my cat average that year. I couldn't believe it. The others averaged about $70. The reds went for $40.
Needless to say I went back there the next year. Thought I cleaned them out but was doing just as well for the first week then a snow storm buried everthing.
These fox are welcome here as far as I'm concerned. The chukar guys and sage hen guys might disagree. Egg suckers.
Just hope the shunks and possums leave us alone. Jack rabbits are bad enough.
-John
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Post by lynxcat on Dec 24, 2007 16:55:12 GMT -6
Joel...reminds me of when I was skinning a VERY "green" red for a guy to show him how...I'm talkin away..give a tug and it rip'd IN HALF... I full faced the fox in the GREEN BELLY... not a pretty sight... ;D
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Post by frenchman on Dec 24, 2007 19:23:32 GMT -6
Several bastards, lots of reds, but never a true cross or a silver for me.
Maybe I just don't trap hard enough, but someday...
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Post by bobwendt on Dec 25, 2007 6:28:16 GMT -6
the dark crosses are non existant in the wild eastern silver gene. that`s why you never get any dark ones in the east. . the fur farmers mix the eastern and the western to get the real dark crosses. that breeding is termed a "blended cross"
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Dec 25, 2007 8:57:32 GMT -6
Lynx I ran into Cody the other day, he was down here hunting deer with a fellow I know.
When I told them I was trapping he said I know some guys from NV, do you know Steve Wood and Scott Byrd and Felton?
We got to talking and the guy I knew didn't recognize me with my balaclava on so I said Gary it's Joel Blakeslee.
He says I've talked to you on the internet I'm Cody.
Funny thing isn't it?
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2007 12:17:53 GMT -6
Furman from here, sent me tow great books to read- one on fox genetics and colors, one on mink.
The color crosses were fantastic- I couldn't believe the colors red fox could be.
and mink- man- I'd take a mink coat of the Jaguar type mink any day- pure white with black spots.....
I could see breeding colors on either would be fascinating endeavor.
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